Tuning options - Puma

[Gav110]

I've reviewed all the threads I could find on this - most seemed to be comparing TD5 vs Puma, but apologies if I missed the key thread. :angel:

I recall Tombraider offering some impressive gains on the TD5, and in my own TD5 had the Bruce Davis chip, intercooler and exhaust - very impressive gains.

What's the latest state of tuning on the Puma? I'm interested to know the gains from chip tuning, and anything else e.g. intercooler/exhaust mods.

Thanks.

[sav07]

Gavster, I have just got a BAS re-tune from the UK. I have found it has improved power and fuel economy, can't comment on Torque. The quoted figures can be found on the website, Diesel performance and economy remap chip tuning for Landrover Defender Discovery TD5 Puma TDV6 TDV8 (http://www.bellautoservices.co.uk) The tune interface will also read any OBD fault codes. Overall I would recommend it.

[Drover]

I have just replaced the factory ducting from the vent in the drivers side guard/snorkel to the air box on my 08 PUMA, with 65mm ID marine exhaust tubing.

The factory ducting is various shapes and quite squashed in places and obviously restrictive to a smooth air flow.

The marine exhaust tubing provides an inside diameter of 65mm that is uninterrupted.

I wasn't really expecting a lot of change in performance, but I have surprised with the gains, particularly in the upper gears.

Cruising speeds of about 110km/h are achieved with a lot less throttle and maintained up hill much easier.

Cheap and simple project.

[dullbird]

I have just replaced the factory ducting from the vent in the drivers side guard/snorkel to the air box on my 08 PUMA, with 65mm ID marine exhaust tubing.

The factory ducting is various shapes and quite squashed in places and obviously restrictive to a smooth air flow.

The marine exhaust tubing provides an inside diameter of 65mm that is uninterrupted.

I wasn't really expecting a lot of change in performance, but I have surprised with the gains, particularly in the upper gears.


Cruising speeds of about 110km/h are achieved with a lot less throttle and maintained up hill much easier.



Cheap and simple project.

so what RPM?

[Drover]

RPM's have not changed, it is about 2250rpm @ 110km/h.

I am not an expert by any means, but the higher the gear, the higher the speed, the more fuel air mixture is needed to maintain a certain RPM.

With the new ducting it allows air to be drawn in to the air box without any restrictions, making it easier for the engine to maintain a required speed without choking it.

In the lower gears the gains are not as obvious as the motor does not need to work as hard and the demand for fuel/air mix is not as great.

The difference when driving is noticeable, not huge.

[dmdigital]

Gavster, I believe Tombie2 is offering the BAS unit for the Puma now, he posted up something the other week.

[Gav110]

Gavster, I believe Tombie2 is offering the BAS unit for the Puma now, he posted up something the other week.

Thanks mate - will PM him

[dullbird]

RPM's have not changed, it is about 2250rpm @ 110km/h.

I am not an expert by any means, but the higher the gear, the higher the speed, the more fuel air mixture is needed to maintain a certain RPM.

With the new ducting it allows air to be drawn in to the air box without any restrictions, making it easier for the engine to maintain a required speed without choking it.

In the lower gears the gains are not as obvious as the motor does not need to work as hard and the demand for fuel/air mix is not as great.

The difference when driving is noticeable, not huge.

sorry should of wrote a bit more than what I did, was just curious at what RPM you were at at 110...:) never actually asked anyone before just wanted to see if it was the same which it is....

I have an engine light at the moment, its my turn for a failed EGR:D

[Bush65]

The compressor on the turbo produces boost pressure which is a ratio of the inlet pressure.

At sea level standard atmospheric pressure is approximately 14.7 psia (absolute, not gauge pressure). The pressure will drop as the air flows from the inlet, through the ducts, air filter, etc. to the compressor inlet.

Comparing 2 hypothetical installation where the standard system has a pressure loss in the intake/filter of (for sake of example) 2 psi, and a modified system where the losses in the intake/filter are reduced to 1.5 psi - an improvement of 0.5 psi.

Then the absolute pressures at the compressor inlet would be 12.7 psia (14.7 - 2) and 13.2 psia (14.7 - 1.5) respectively.

For this example, assume the compressor is operating at a pressure ratio of 2.4 (for some particular engine rpm and turbo rpm).

Then the absolute pressure at the compressor outlet is 30.48 psia (12.7 x 2.4) and 31.6 psia (13.2 x 2.4) respectively.

Then to find the boost pressure the absolute pressure is converted to gauge pressure by subtracting the atmospheric pressure (14.7 psia in this example). i.e. 15.78 psi (30.48 - 14.7) and 16.98 psi (31.6 - 14.7) respectively.

So by reducing loss in the inlet system by 0.5 psi (2 - 1.5), we achieve a useful gain of 1.2 psi (16.98 - 15.78) boost at the compressor outlet.

The above gain in boost pressure could have been determined simply by just multiplying the inlet pressure difference by the pressure ratio i.e. 0.5 psi x 2.4 = 1.2 psi.

I hope the above discussion helps to understand what Drover has experienced.

[Drover]

Easy for you to say !:D

Thanks John (It does make sence)

[cal415]

Reviving an old thread here, but i am looking into to this myself, looking at buying a puma but i am not sold on the power, its impressive enough compared to my 1kz-te prado, but thats no rocket either. If i get one it needs plenty of grunt across the rev range mainly for towing the camper on the beach, after driving one it feels pretty dead off the mark but then comes to life as the revs pick up, i guess its a bit of turbo lag but it seems quite possible that its made worse by the fly by wire lag.

After driving Dullbirds 110 on the beach you really notice the gap between 1st and 2nd in the soft stuff because of this low down lag, anyone with a chip out there notice an improvement in this area at all?

Also are there any puma 130 owners around newcastle willing to come for a play on the beach with me sometime? i really want to know this motor/gearbox setup before i comit to spending 55k+ on a very basic ute.

[dullbird]

Mick just so you know I have noticed that the car is a bit laggy fullstop I'm considering putting some metal or silcone pipe on the intercooler and turbo lines I'm thinking that this may help...

my car never used to be laggy at all and I have noticed that it just doesn't seem to pull up hills like it used to so going to check this avenue first. If I were you I would see if you could get another drive of a puma on the sand as it simply could be that mine isn't feeling 100%

[Perspicacious]

Has anyone tried the DP Chip (http://dpchip.com/)? Developed by Berrima Diesel. They seem to know what they're doing. If you have tried one in a Puma, how did it go?

The DP Chip power gains promises 90 kW to 107kW. I have no idea about the BAS power gain but BAS promises to turn off the EGR electronically.

[grover7488]

i'm keen to hear if anyone is running the Bluefin by Superchips UK they claim 40Hp and 102 Nm extra. ECU upgrade similar to BAS but only AU$535

[n plus one]

Mick just so you know I have noticed that the car is a bit laggy fullstop I'm considering putting some metal or silcone pipe on the intercooler and turbo lines I'm thinking that this may help...

my car never used to be laggy at all and I have noticed that it just doesn't seem to pull up hills like it used to so going to check this avenue first. If I were you I would see if you could get another drive of a puma on the sand as it simply could be that mine isn't feeling 100%

Just to confirm Dulldird's comments, turbo lag isn't an issue on my Puma - it's much better than a number of other turbo diesels I've driven.

For example, as long as the revs are above 1500 it'll pull 3rd beautifully. Certainly no dramas when driving on the beach either - though I admit to not having towed on sand.

To be clear though, I'n not saying the Puma is a powerhouse (and I'm watching this thread with interest).

[alittlebitconcerned]

I've read recently on the defender2 forum that you can pay for a code to tell the computer to close the EGR valve permanently. No more need for a blanking plate, and no more light appearing on the dash showing a fault. :eek:

[Loubrey]

The chips sold by Devon 4x4 in the UK seems to be a half decent option. They are not cheap, but the old saying of you getting what you pay for...

These guys are Land Rover people driving Land Rovers in competitions like the Malaysian Rain Forest Challenge and the Outback Challenge. Maybe I'm too gullible, but when guys like these recommend gear they'll use themselves, I do take note.

Performance Upgrades (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=25&Itemid=14)

Most things in their shop will be delivered in Oz within 4 days. Again, I have no affiliation with the business, just reporting on very good experience dealing with them and the power of the Aussie dollar makes exchange rates very attractive.

[cal415]

With regards to the lag i noticed, it was also noticable on the new one i drove. Its more likely a throttle lag thing more then turbo lag, which isnt much fun for soft sand driving. Overall general sand driving would likely be a breeze for the puma, but when it comes to a nasty bit that requires a bit of throttle control is where i noticed that Lou's defender was hard to work out, given some more time driving one on the sand i would probobly get used to it.... i hope.

The lack of grunt is also very noticable on the 1st to 2nd gear change in high on soft sand, does anyone know the specs for gearing in the puma? what transfer is used? i looks like a LT230 but i only had a quick look.

[one_iota]

..........

The lack of grunt is also very noticable on the 1st to 2nd gear change in high on soft sand, does anyone know the specs for gearing in the puma? what transfer is used? i looks like a LT230 but i only had a quick look.



Think of First and Second as 1a and 1b :D

The transmission ratios are

First 5.441
Second 2.840
Third 1.721
Fourth 1.223
Fifth 1.000
Sixth 0.742
Reverse 4.935

The Transfer Case is a LT230QRS and its ratios are

High 1.211:1
Low 3.269:1

[Naks]

was just curious at what RPM you were at at 110...:)

At 2000rpm, I am doing 100kmh. But then, I live at sea level, so that helps :)

[Nera Donna]

I’ve been researching the same thing for my vehicle (2008 2.4 110) for a very long time now. And getting a straight answer from these ‘chip’ companies can be a bit tricky. I spoken to a few of the guys from the forum, on and offline and it seems to be a 50/50 sort of thing (my opinion only). Some blokes reckon it’s the best thing since sliced bread, others say don’t mess with the vehicle because the repercussions are not worth the risk. I know there’s the ‘re-flashing of the ECM’ that many guys swear by, I don’t doubt them for a minute.
I’ll shear a reply I received from ‘tunit’. Which to date is the best reply from any vendor that I have been in contact with.

Your Defender uses a V-CR Denso 2 system and costs $1280 incl GST, this Tunit is about the size of a mobile phone, with a 15pin plug on one end and an access panel on the other.

This particular Tunit comes complete with a detachable harness that has original manufacturers Denso plugs matching the ones on your engine. Installation is simply a case of fitting the two plugs on the Tunit harness to two plugs on your engine. With the Tunit there is no need for dismantling or going inside your ECU.

Installation can be carried out either by yourself as full installation instructions are supplied or by a dealer.

Defender figures: 91kW to approx 110kW and your torque from 359Nm to approx 415Nm

As well as improved torque throughout the RPM range, the torque is also increased lower down where it is needed, giving better acceleration, throttle response and more pulling power.

One of the unique features of the Tunit is it's adjustability. The Tunit has ten different settings. By prising off the rear access panel, you can adjust the Tunit manually. The Tunit is pre-programmed for your individual vehicle, however each car can be different in output and characteristics and for this reason you can choose between the settings to suit your vehicle. This setting can also be altered if you were to further modify your vehicle with performance filters, turbo's or intercoolers etc, you will probably find with your exhaust that this can be turned up a bit.

If you wish to carry out extra modifications to your vehicle or if you have special requirements then we and our distributors can re-program you unit to suit. This is generally carried out after first installation.

As a result of tuning most people tend to gain 7-10% better fuel economy. This can vary from vehicle to vehicle and depends on application/driver but is generally the case.
I have no affiliations with ‘tunit’ just sharing the information.
What I have learnt is the exhaust gas temperatures must be taken into consideration with any modification with any of the Defender diesel engines, old or new.
I did look into a supercharger, but seeing as the inlet manifold would have to be fabricated, one off job. I let that idea slide. I don’t want to sacrifice reliability for performance.
I’m leaning towards a chip, exhaust, intercooler combo. I’ve had correspondence with ‘Roo Systems’. Very willing people and their product looks good for the Japanese 4x4 manufactures market, but to date no data or performance figures for the Defender.
Twisted performance in the UK make some astronomical performance claims, but I fear the stress would be too much for the poor old Puma engine.
Intercoolers? In a word. Expensive. Again no performance figures for anybody I have contacted. The principle is sound, but to handover all that money on someone’s else’s say so??? It’s a lot of money to spend on a leap of faith.
In the end, there is no ‘magic bullet’. We all have to make our own decisions on the information we have at our disposal, the availability of the products and affordability. One guy from the Forum told me that the overseas unit where setup for overseas conditions (makes sense). That unless the unit can be adjusted by the end user, he advised against this type of unit. I think that’s worth taking in to consideration.
Cheers
Craig

[Naks]

Bang for buck, the best performance mod on any turbodiesel is to remove the cat and middle silence box and replaced with a straight-through pipe.

Adding a bigger intercooler will also help the engine breathe better. Although this may not translate into a major performance increase, it will improve the longevity of the engine.

[dullbird]

also bear in mind that the ECU's on the puma are only good for being flashed 13 times I believe

[grover7488]

also bear in mind that the ECU's on the puma are only good for being flashed 13 times I believe

where have you heard that. I thought that the BAS type could be reflashed over and over? Maybe Pete @ B-A-S could confirm that or Tombie

[dullbird]

I cant remember exactly now as I heard it couple of years ago, things may of changed now...I heard it through someone in land rover
Was just told that the ECU has a limit. was also told that land rover computers also automatically resets ECU if you happen to have an undetectable Map on the it too. How true that is I dont know

[dmdigital]

The CANbus systems will reset from the dealer's system if it detects an invalid configuration (non-LR) is my understanding too. As for the writing, the memory storage should be good for thousands of rewrites. You have to remember it is storing information in there itself during vehicle operation. OK mainly DTC's but it is definitely able to take more than a dozen or so rewrites as even the dealers system will update it as required.

[dullbird]

but when you put a map on your not updating are you...your wiping info and adding your own complete information would this make any difference.

It was indicated to me that it was limited to stop reflashing of the Ecu not updating.
Not saying my info is right and hopefully someone in the know can put us all straight

[dmdigital]

but when you put a map on your not updating are you...your wiping info and adding your own complete information would this make any difference.
Just like creating, deleting and removing DTC's or when the dealer upgrades the vehicle's configuration file.

[barney]

Go see Bruce Davis. he will sort it out. i drove his chipped SVX on the heritage drive last year and it was bloody awesome. he reckons on that test run, he was getting 150km/h out of 5th gear, but admitted it probably isn't designed to go that fast.
a couple of our members have had problems with those "plug and go" type chips upgrades like the DP, from bizarre behaviour and surging to intermittent engine cutout for no reason (when they've been in for a while)
you have to understand that these eproms work on very small voltages and by using friction connections like a plug and go chip upgrade, you may introduce HR joints into the system that further degrade the signals to and from the original chip, and these will cause premature failures.