April without, August with E-diff

[fatnold]

Went to order a D4 today. Was a little suprised at the lead time. My question is this, is the E-diff worth the wait????? (August with, April without)
The thing will be driven on tar 95% of the time. I have never had my D3 off road but nearly every off road trip I do in my D1 I use my Maxidrive Locker at least once. I'm selling my D1 so the D4 will be my offroad machine as well. I have bad memories of our D2 with traction control where I got into deep trouble on a wet clay climb due to the system's reliance on controlling the brakes to get through. Basically when all wheels were slipping you could not hammer it 'cause all the brakes where on, hence you slide off the road and into oblivion. (or a bank in this case). I don't see myself doing too much hardcore driving in the future.( to hard these days with all the lockouts.) but want to be confident with river crossing and steep, loose rocky stuff. Does the E-diff add significantly??

Oh, and can someone confirm if the D3/D4 has a physical centre diff lock and under what circumstances does it lock.

[gghaggis]

Centre diff is an electronically controlled clutch affair. It's activated by the car, and lock-up-level, time-to-activate, are varied according to which Terrain Response setting you choose. Along with the traction control, this makes it a very flexible system, much better than the earlier systems in the D2/P38.

The rear eLocker is an advantage in deep mud or rock-crawling. Little difference otherwise, but the non-locker vehicle will have to work a little harder to get you through.

Cheers,

Gordon

[camel_landy]

Yes, rear e-Diff makes a big difference if you're using the car in anger. It'll probably also help with the re-sale value in a few years.

Whether it's worth it... Only you can decide.

If you need to trade up now, why not see if you can strike a deal with the sales guy. Something along the lines of taking away a second hand D3 (with e-Diff) with a guaranteed trade-in price on the D4 when it arrives in Aug... ;)

M

[camel_landy]

The e-Diffs are NOT locking diffs (in the traditional sense of the word). Instead, they have adjustable clutch plates, to allow the control of the torque to each wheel.

All of this is controlled through the Terrain Response system.

M

[jonesfam]

I can't say about a D3 with the E diff (never driven on off tarmac) but I can say that without the E diff it is still a super capable car in mud & slosh. Twice now I have got into situations that would have stuck my ex Pathfinder 51 & my Patrol Ute. And Twice the D3 has just worked on through the mud & muck.
Not using TR in very slippery conditions does seem to let the center diff lock 100%, I had the front wheels spinning just as hard as the rears until I put TR in mud/ruts, then a totally different car. It just goes forward, steady but sure.
I have not done much on rocks yet but in wet black soil - what a car.
Jonesfam
PS Remmember to turn off DSC!::p

[rmp]

Wait for the e-diff.

At some point you will be happy you did.

[rmp]

The e-Diffs are NOT locking diffs (in the traditional sense of the word). Instead, they have adjustable clutch plates, to allow the control of the torque to each wheel.

All of this is controlled through the Terrain Response system.

M

Yes, it's not like say an Air Locker or Eaton etc. But if the clutch plates lock up so torque is distributed 50/50 regardless of wheel turn resistance, then it's a locking diff -- the effect is important not how it is achieved. Another difference is the lack of user control but it's worlds apart from the classic auto-locker, a device I really do not like at all.

[camel_landy]

But if the clutch plates lock up so torque is distributed 50/50 regardless of wheel turn resistance, then it's a locking diff -- the effect is important not how it is achieved.

Absolutely, but I'm still going to split a couple of hairs here...

Technically, it will never 'lock' although it gives the impression it is. In theory, if you hold one of the output shafts tight enough and apply enough torque, it will still slip.

(I got picked up on this very point by one of our senior technical bods... ;))

M

[rmp]

Absolutely, but I'm still going to split a couple of hairs here...

Technically, it will never 'lock' although it gives the impression it is. In theory, if you hold one of the output shafts tight enough and apply enough torque, it will still slip.

(I got picked up on this very point by one of our senior technical bods... ;))

M

Fair enough then, I agree it's not a true locker as a true locker would break before it slipped.

I wasn't aware of that as I've never seen it slip even under adverse conditions (all weight on one rear wheel, high traction, power), but I'm actually glad it does because it'd then act as a weak link.

Good to know...

[Leo]

Technically, it will never 'lock' .....
M

Been told by a LR bod that it does lock 100% in some conditions - of course it can lock and unlock several times a second and different TR modes put the diffs into different levels of pre-lock.

Theoretically, of course, you are right, any clutch has the potential to slip, but the forces involved would be huge.

[rmp]

Been told by a LR bod that it does lock 100% in some conditions - of course it can lock and unlock several times a second and different TR modes put the diffs into different levels of pre-lock.

Theoretically, of course, you are right, any clutch has the potential to slip, but the forces involved would be huge.

I think CL's post rings true, I know it's a clutch in there (as opposed to a pinion or other device to mechanically lock it) which is why it can be (de)activated so quickly. Mechancial devices may need a slight rotation to align cogs or what-not, and are sensitive to torque input when (dis)engaging. So if it is a clutch then it won't be 100% in theory, but in practice I very much doubt you'd be able to slip it, something would probably break first.

An interesting question; is the clutch either 0 or 100, or is there an in between setting. I suspect it is 0-100 and ETC takes care of any interim values, with ETC dropping out when the clutch goes to 100. Still works on the front unlike Toyota and Mitus's implementations.

[Graeme]

Definitely a variable degree of locking. The actuator operates against a sloping surface to be able to apply a precise amount of force to the plates. The motor has to be calibrated if its removed to ensure the correct amount of force is applied.

As for always being able to force movement, brakes operate by clamping forces and therefore can always theoretically be unlocked with enough force but in practice its impossible due to insufficient tyre grip.

[AnD3rew]

haven't done any real rock crawling yet but found some deep mud in central QLD in Dec/Jan and never looked like getting stuck and I don't have the e-diff.

[rmp]

The locker is of most use on hills and on rocks and least use on sand and shallow mud.