It's having me on isn't it????

[dullbird]

So last night when we got back from a great camping trip we unpacked the car went to lock it up and the key fob wouldn't lock the car:(

never mind we assumed dead battery...so came into the house got the other fob and nothing!! mmmmmm SO something must be wrong for both fobs not to be working.

Well me being the optimist I figured well second fob has sat around for 2.5years the battery is probably flat...I said to Ian I hve concerns that the car wont start due to the fobs not working..thinking that if the puma is anything like the TD5 then a working fob not being near the ignition immobilises the car.

Any how not thinking any more of it I said lock it with the key.

This morning I go out to the car stupidly try and unlock it with the fob and realise duuurrrrr brain its not working so unlock it with the key.

get in put the key in...sure enough the starter cranked but the car would not start..tried a couple of times each time the starter would crank, the engine would almost sound like its going to turn over STOP and then beep the horn twice.

This happened a couple of times and then I called land rover assist.
Land rover assist came out he tried a couple of times...I said I thought the car was immobilised as ever third time of trying the car would only give dash lights and no crank at all.

he checked the battery and that was fine although oddly the second was flat as a pancake which it shouldn't of been after the 80k drive from the wollondilly camp ground:(..(so need to check the sc40 is working correctly) anyhow there was enough power in the main battery but the nrma guy put his booster on anyway just to give it a good pos and neg. same deal with the car when trying...

so he removed the neg lead on the main to allow any chance for anything to reset it's self after doing this the car would almost fire then stop beep the horn twice and then each time after the crank would be shorter and shorter before stopping until he removed the neg lead again and again the car would do the same almost fire beep the horn twice and the same repeated there after.

he checked all the fuses in the car (however I think there are some under the bonnet which I forgot to point out)

he then checked the fob battery 2.9v all good its a 3v battery.:(

he calls me a tow truck....

I get in to the dealer as I needed to get a taxi down to the other garage to pick up my other car as I was now 4.5hrs late for work:mad:

And first of all, first question "Have you driven it through a river" this I have to say really ****ed me off firstly because no we hadn't driven through a bloody river there are no rivers to drive through at the camping ground at wollondilly (well there is but it happens to be about 50meters wide and god knows how deep) now I could just be being sensitive here but when ever I go into the dealership with a problem I get asked either "have you been offroad or have you been through a river":mad:....I don't go anywhere with this car as I'm to bloody frightened too in case we get blamed for breaking something on it!

Anyhow the answer to the river question of course was NO the only water we had driven through, was that really heavy storm while driving down Wombeyan caves rd to the camp ground and the car had been sat for 2 nights in heavy constant rain after that.

But while I'm explaining to the dealer what had happened to the car i look round to watch my car being backed in to the garage...on the engine!! the bloody thing was driving:mad:.....they kept the car and said they better check it out only to find nothing wrong with it no logged codes no nothing.
They are keeping the car over night to make sure it doesn't do it in the morning but bloody hell all that and nothing:(

Has anyone had anything happen like this to there puma before???

[Drover]

A couple of times when I have gone to start my 09MY PUMA, the engine has fired, ran for 1 second and stopped.

All dash lights are on, turn the key back to stop, dash lights go out, turn the key to on , dash light fire up, turn the key to start nothing.

Repeat process nothing, leave it sit for 3 or 4 minutes with ignition off, try again and no problem off we go. No horn beeps though.

Asked the dealer, who said nothing we can do unless it does it for us.

Remote controller only works if you are standing right beside the vehicle. Is this normal ?

[cripesamighty]

Yep, you need to be standing right next to the side of our Puma or the fob does not work. It does not work when you are standing behind the vehicle though...

[dullbird]

Maybe in your case guys..but when I first got my car the range on the puma was apauling and I had to stand quite literally next to the window to unlock (what's the point in that!) I had my aerial extended and I can now easily open my car from a good 8 meters away possibly further...

Drover when you explain yours above at any time did the starter crank? or was it just dash lights?

[Drover]

Yes it cranked and seemed to start for less than a second and then just stopped.

If you tried it to quickley after that it would just crank for 1/2 a second and stop.

On each occasion so far, if I wait 3 or 4 minutes it will start, it has only done it 3 times in 12 months

[dullbird]

Yes it cranked and seemed to start for less than a second and then just stopped.

If you tried it to quickley after that it would just crank for 1/2 a second and stop.

On each occasion so far, if I wait 3 or 4 minutes it will start, it has only done it 3 times in 12 months

This is exactly the issue I'm having...:( exactly the way you describe it but with the beeps...

how ever there was a period where we left the car much longer than 3-4 mins and it still didn't do anything, it was only when the car took a trip to the dealer which was over an hours drive that they must of fired it up as it came off the flat bed.

[dullbird]

Drover on the 3 times it did it to you can you remember what the weather had been like?

we have had the car out over the weekend in some torrential rain......the only thing we found a little a miss with the car was when we went to pull the camper out of the camp ground up a really small hill and I mean small the car sounded like it was going to stall..more than once even when Ian put a few rev's on. but once the car was going and warm never missed a beat. well until this morning

[Drover]

Has only ever done it on the first start of the day.

Weather not a contributing factor, it lives in the garage. It has done it in both summer and winter.

[dmdigital]

Its possible for the Lucas10AS to loose sync with the fob, I had this happen on the D1 after replacing a flat fob battery. Obviously not the issue in your case.

You're correct about the fob and the ignition as there is nothing to power the fob but the battery so it would immobilise the vehicle.

I don't suppose you tried the EKA did you? Would have been interesting to see if this did anything.

Also the alarm light that flashes at the bottom of the speedo should pulse differently if either the fob or the vehicle battery is showing signs of low voltage.

Might pay to give drivesafe a PM about the SC40 and the second battery. If the second battery is on the way out... well remember what happened to mine last July.

Sorry that none of this sounds really helpful.

[dullbird]

So the only thing our cars have in common is the 09....

I'm just trying to see if there is any links between us that might help.

might go have a look on a few UK sites see if that brings up anything

[dullbird]

Anyone on landrover tech site that might be able to get me this SSM:-SSM42916

Just want to see if it is relevant to both me and drover......as something similar has happened in Italy only difference is they have a temp issue connected so when they can kick the car over the temp guage needle goes stright up into the red even though car is not started...

I have read a couple of issues on other sites and only relating to two things a faulty starter or ECU glitch...(or bad connection on the ecu plug)

[Fraz]

There may be a possibility that something was wet somewhere in the engine, and overnight too. When the truck was towed, it may have dried it out for you.
Was it raining when you arrived home and unpacked?

I only think this because I had to tow a Grand Vitara for about 20km on Fraser Island because it wouldn't start. We had been playing in some creeks :cool:

Started first go when we pulled up

[dullbird]

There may be a possibility that something was wet somewhere in the engine, and overnight too. When the truck was towed, it may have dried it out for you.
Was it raining when you arrived home and unpacked?

I only think this because I had to tow a Grand Vitara for about 20km on Fraser Island because it wouldn't start. We had been playing in some creeks :cool:

Started first go when we pulled up

And this is exactly what I suggested to the dealer...yes it was drizzling when we unpacked but we unpacked the trailer not from under the car bonnet:D.

however now I have seen that drover has also had the exact same problem from a car that is garaged...I now wonder whether there is a glitch

[Fraz]

Its odd because the only thing that changed between not starting and starting was the location of the truck and dryness (if still wet at all) of your engine bay.

If they find no fault, I would suggest some random water ingress. Hopefully it wont happen again. Certainly doesnt seem common though.

[5teve]

Hi Dullbird

Dont know if it helps... but... i had a similar issue with the disco td5... i know its a different system... but...

it would arm... then when i used the key it wouldnt disarm... went through about 4 hours of hell trying to get the thing to work reprogramming fobs etc.. nothing would work until i backed it up from the house... then it would work fine..

i still am not 100% sure but i think it was the garage door controller... once i switched it off and back on again... all was good...

so you havent got a remote garage door have you?

There are also lots of td5 issues with the immobiliser outside amcal chemists... but i know yours isnt a td5 and you dont live at amcal :D

Thanks

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

not sure if its the same unit as some of the later ford ones but they are programed to lock on a command thats near enough and not unlock or play the game if its not perfect.

If something (microwave, amcal chemist security system, telstra microwave tower etc) is causing interference it will lock up for you but not unlock.

[dullbird]

not sure if its the same unit as some of the later ford ones but they are programed to lock on a command thats near enough and not unlock or play the game if its not perfect.

If something (microwave, amcal chemist security system, telstra microwave tower etc) is causing interference it will lock up for you but not unlock.

I don't think its interference, although I will bare it in mind as the key fob started being less sensitive on the last night of the camping trip. It would still lock and unlock the car but would take a few goes...that's why I thought it might of been a battery issue in the fob at first.

[alien]

G'day Dulldird,
I was speaking too the owners of Utility Campers (http://utilitycampers.com/) the other day.
He told me of a no start problem they had in their new Puma when heading to Perth for a show:((Ended up on a tow truck also).
I have to call in tomorow and I'll ask about it again(and rember the story this time).
Or send him an E'Mail???

[Blknight.aus]

ahh I read it as the problems started when you got home and was thinking along the lines of "the neighbours got himself a new wireless router while you were out"

[dullbird]

ahh I read it as the problems started when you got home and was thinking along the lines of "the neighbours got himself a new wireless router while you were out"


thats my fault as I had forgotten about the fob playing up the night before.:(

[dullbird]

G'day Dulldird,
I was speaking too the owners of Utility Campers (http://utilitycampers.com/) the other day.
He told me of a no start problem they had in their new Puma when heading to Perth for a show:((Ended up on a tow truck also).
I have to call in tomorow and I'll ask about it again(and rember the story this time).
Or send him an E'Mail???

Id:- 42916

Models:- LD - Defender

Title:- Defender non start condition 2008my onwards

Last Modified:- 25-NOV-2009 12:44

Category:- Electrical

Symptom:- 203000 Basic Electrical


Content
Issue:
Vehicle is in a not start condition and appears to be Immobilised.
Cause:
Several potential causes for this symptom, Land Rover request you follow the action below.
Action:
Use the attached flow chart when diagnosing a non start condition. It would be appreciated if you could respond via EPQR giving details and a reference to the point in the diagnostic flow diagram the non start issue was resolved, or if a non start condition cannot be resolved, in which case it may be necessary to arrange an Engineering visit to view the vehicle.


but its like all things it needs to happen with the dealer.....remember I was the first person to have an engine rattle that took over a year to prove to the dealer once I went through the pain of proving it everyone seemed to have the rattle.

I hope this is just a one off....as I really don't want the hassle of this ever again

[dullbird]

drover just so you know its there if it is of any help to you I have added the flow chart to the above SSM

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/59261-defender-service-bulletins-messages-recalls-07-onwards-2.html#post1182680

[alien]

Had a talk to the man at Utility Campers (http://utilitycampers.com/) today.
Not much help for you though.

No cranking at all, hot wired starter and turned but no start.
Towed (Ex Ceduna) as I said and no idea as to cause given.(Dealer spent a lot of time on it,with a good wrap given).
Selling dealer (Just out of Melb) has no idea either.

Last week while they were away it wouldn't start (nothing on key).
Left unlocked o'nite, locked/unlocked with fob and all good;)

Dealer said "if it does it again bring it back":eek:
Handy if up the high country or out in the simpson.

[Blknight.aus]

just a thought....

we had a problem with a radio at work that wasnt holding cipher or freqs.

when the memory battery was tested it tested ok volts wise on a meter but once it was put on the load tester it failed dismally.

could be a similar thing.

[dullbird]

so even though the garage couldn't find any issues Land rover have asked they keep the car and investigate.

Now my car came out from a service not that long ago and also only came out from clearing an EGR fault about 4 days ago....I wonder if they have had any software updates recently????? seems a bit odd that this has come apparent all of a sudden with more than one car..

Although I guess drover has had the issue for longer....

To Alien is your friend puma an 09 model too?

[one_iota]

I'm not usually prone to posting off topic as a matter of principle and because we need a little levity here it goes:

If you'd bought a 109" Series III you wouldn't have this problem.:p

(apologies Dave but you started it)

:wasntme:


Carry on: I am watching this thread with interest

[Blknight.aus]

actually she could have had any of the 80,88,107,109,120 inch wheel base rovers, any of the county, perentie, early disco,tdi deefer, td5 deefer, early range rovers or infact any other company that took one look at it an went

No, wed rather do without or do it mechanically than do it with lucas stuff.

Gotta be honest tho, I havent ever had an ignition problem with fozzy so this lucas stuff cant be too bad.

[Drover]

I just pick the PUMA from its 10,000k service. First time it has ever seen the inside of a workshop since it was purchased in November 08.

Had a soft ware up date for the engine (Q 068 version 4 “Engine Lacks Power”), made heaps of difference, Turbo lag all but gone, loads more power and much more drivable. (Thanks for the tip Dullbird)

Service Consultant was not able to find any faults relating to the "No start" issue, surprise surprise, but he is confident that the soft ware up date will fix it.

I wish I shared his optimism, time will tell.

[Tusker]

Hi DB,

The fact the horn goes off each time sounds like a pre-programmed alert, not an errant water leak.

Only thing I can suggest is to get the dealer to realign/train/co-ordinate your vehicle to the fobs again. Whatever the technical term for this reset is.

Regards
Max P