Do not expect EAS to work off road on D4

[roamer]

Has anyone with a D4 noticed that if you raise suspsnsion from access to offroad, then lower it and then try to go back up it will take up to 2mins to raise, or more if compressor overheats.
Had mine to dealer said needed recalibration, made no difference, waited 3weeks for new compressor, made no difference.
They tested 3 other car in showroom all the same,so they got on to LRA,their answer that must be what they do now.
This in the sand with the 40k/h limit and suspension going down makes the car useless and unfit for its advertised use.
I had a D3 before and it do not do this (ie several up & downs before slowing)
Could other D4 owners please check theirs out, best to know before it ploughs it self into the sand because the rear still goes up quickly which pushes the front straight down.
Will also be a problem if you have just selected offroad and bottom out as extended hieght will take 2mins to raise, a Toyota will have pulled you out by then. [biggrin]

Cheers Ken

[Dingmark Jim]

Yet another reason to use shortened suspension arms offroad. Thanks for the "heads up" on this. I'll let you know if my D4 does the same thing when it finally arrives here.

[Graeme]

After having to leave mine in access height last night due to supposed overheating of the compressor, thismorning it still took quite a little while to start to raise the rear. I stopped after driving off due to the rough ride to discover the front still hadn't started to raise, which took another minute or so to raise. I'll remove the compressor cover to find out if the compressor really is overheating or something else is wrong. I feel that it should have risen much more quickly thismorning.

[isuzurover]

Can you replace the EAS compressor with an ARB compressor???

Or install an ARB and an air tank, and plumb it into the EAS system?

[Graeme]

With my vehicle having sat at on-road height for 2 hours, I removed the compressor cover to be able to hear when it was running, started the engine and left it idling. The compressor did not start. I selected off-road height which occurred very quickly but the compressor ran and ran and ran for several minutes. There was a pressure release at the same time that it stopped, so maybe the over-pressure protection triggered the compressor to stop. The compressor head got way too hot to touch probably about 1/3rd of the time from when it started to run. I selected on-road height (the compressor did not start) then off-road again whereby the compressor ran and ran again. This time I returned to on-road height before the off-road height change was completed (up light still on) and the compressor stopped. I selected off-road height again and the compressor ran for a very long time again, but this time the rear was slower to rise then the front took quite a long time. No error messages were issued.

I returned to on-road height and will try off-road height later today and note whether the compressor again runs for a long time.

I suspect a programming error in the revised suspension ecu that is not stopping the compressor whilst in off-road height until the over-pressure limit is triggered, thus prematurely overheating the compressor head.

[Graeme]

After a bit more investigating, I don't think there's anything suspicious about off-road height. My vehicle is only getting 12.06V across the pump's connector so there's a fair bit of voltage drop. The earth appears to run all the way to the front and its loosing 0.3v compared with the chassis, so an additional earth could be provided to make the pump motor more efficient. There could be a restriction between the pump and the tank that's making the pump work too hard, or it could just be an undersized pump. It reminds me of some tyre valves that require very high pressures to open whereby the tyres inflate ever so slowly.

The slow to rise is due to pump excessive heat inefficiency and the overheating messages are real. I don't know if its operating as it should but I hope not.

[isuzurover]

The slow to rise is due to pump excessive heat inefficiency and the overheating messages are real. I don't know if its operating as it should but I hope not.

Air compressors will always get quite hot due to adiabatic heating. It may be completely normal???

[Graeme]

Yes, I accept that the heat may be normal although the slow rising hopefully is not.

As the D3 WSM shows that higher temperatures are allowed for the motor and pump head when lifting compared with reservoir filling, its possible that the D4 logic has accidentally been modified to not have the reservoir valve closed whilst pumping during lifting. This would account for the inappropriately slow lifting once the reservoir pressure has been depleted. A diagnostic hookup would hopefully reveal whether the valve was open or not. Alternatively, the valve could be faulty and always open. I suspect that unplugging the reservoir valve electrical connector to isolate the reservoir would cause the ecu to suspend changes, but I might try it anyway, not that it would prove anything if the valve is faulty.

[VladTepes]

Can you replace the EAS compressor with an ARB compressor???

Or install an ARB and an air tank, and plumb it into the EAS system?


That would do wonders for the warranty.....

[Graeme]

I was able to unplug the reservoir valve electrical connector without any error messages and the tank was isolated by this action.

Perhaps there is an unintended obstruction somewhere between the pump outlet and the reservoir valve block outlets. As it is, the system has insufficient capacity. I observed that
1. There is insufficient capacity in the tank to fully raise both the rear and the front from on-road height to off-road height just once.
2. The pump has insufficient capacity to speedily complete the lift of the front the first time, let alone subsequent times.
3. The pump head and motor get hot quite quickly and the pump gets less effective the longer it runs, as shown by the decreasing raise rate of subsequent operations.

It might be useful to do a direct D3/D4 comparison to determine what, if any, differences exist. Perhaps a new compressor, dryer or valve block has been used.

[roamer]

Graeme that sounds like a valid reason, that the compressor is filling tank and air bags at same time, compressor is as far as I know the same as D3 so should not be under sized, as far as I can work out tank, compressor and air bags are all the same as D3 and no problem there, if it was only filling air bag and then tank you won't notice compressor run time
Voltage drop would make pump speed slower, current higher, thus more heat generated, I think :confused:
I just need to convince LRA that it's actually a problem. and not a feature

Thanks Ken

[roamer]

Missed your last post Graeme slow typer
There is a TSB dated 10th Feb, about air suspension software update & compressor/ drier rework. dealer has done that on mine but made no difference to it.
Cheers Ken

[Graeme]

Do you know the VIN range for the TSB?
Its a shame it didn't improve your vehicle.

[roamer]

Do you know the VIN range for the TSB?
Its a shame it didn't improve your vehicle.

No , but it took 3 weeks to get pump and they ad already been ordered

[AnD3rew]

This is why you never buy the first release of a new model of Land Rover, wait until the bugs are ironed out and then buy one.

[roamer]

This is why you never buy the first release of a new model of Land Rover, wait until the bugs are ironed out and then buy one.

If we all did that it would be along wait. :D:D:D
Take a chance ,go out on a limb, :twisted:
You really really want one don"t ya. :angel:

[Jesse B]

Sorry guys - been away for a couple of days: 1600 km in 2 days = another reminder of how excellent the D4 is! Just caught up with this thread, and with heart in mouth went out to put my EAS under some pressure. Down to access height, then up to normal and straight on to off-road - so far so good. Straight back down thru normal to access, then up again, all the way to off-road. Down to access, and back to normal. Didn't miss a beat. Might have been fractionally slower on the last couple of lifts, but barely noticable.

Sorry - I almost feel like a traitor! :eek:

[roamer]

Thanks, at least Land Rover cannot now say that this is how they all are,
Maybe they can make yours like mine ,:D:D useless
THanks for reply Ken

[Jesse B]

No worries - not sure if it's better to have a vehicle-specific issue or a model-wide one (if you have to have one at all that is!). Guess it depends on the issue. Sure hope they can fix yours soon - will watch with interest for updates. I'm still waiting for some kind of solution to the ridiculous misalignment of the halogen high beams. Found it really distracting over two or three hours in the dark coming home a day or two back.

[AnD3rew]

If we all did that it would be along wait. :D:D:D
Take a chance ,go out on a limb, :twisted:
You really really want one don"t ya. :angel:

True my position really does depend on some people taking the plunge before me, so we can't have everyone heeding my advice.

No I won't go out on a limb as I have been burned twice before that why I only just bought my D3.

And yes I do really want one, but not for another 2-3years.

[roamer]

True my position really does depend on some people taking the plunge before me, so we can't have everyone heeding my advice.

No I won't go out on a limb as I have been burned twice before that why I only just bought my D3.

And yes I do really want one, but not for another 2-3years.

Fair enough, good answer:cool::cool:

[Graeme]

My D4's compressor has failed in as much as is no longer produces sufficient pressure to raise the front which results in a fault. The rear takes several minutes to raise from normal to off-road height but the front is still where it was when my tyre compressor assisted the vehicle compressor a week ago. The front has always been slow to rise. The compressor delivery valve was replaced today but with no improvement.

I could not blow through the dryer at all. The dryer has a spring that pushes a plate against the desiccant to keep it compacted, but the desiccant is so compacted that air does not flow through unless under high pressure. I think that the dryer might be responsible for the demise of the compressor. Due to having spilt some desiccant, the volume has been reduced and I can now blow through the dryer but its too late for this compressor. The desiccant didn't appear damp at all yet was almost full to capacity with very little space left for more expansion, as though there was too much desiccant.

AFAIK, LTB000269 which requires both the dryer and delivery valve to be replaced, had already been actioned. LTB000270 requires a new compressor to be fitted. It will be good if a new compressor overcomes the original slow-rising front issue. If not then I'll be checking that the front valve block is indeed for the front not the rear as one has larger galleys and I suspect the vehicle front is heavier than the rear so needs larger galleys.

[roamer]

Graham ,
I had the compressor changed, made no difference, still slow to raise (2 mins), or overheats before it gets there. :mad:
LRAs/ dealer spin on the rear first then front raising was, if it's night and your lights are on it stops lights pointing up at oncoming cars ( ummm OK )
It seems now spin is slow raising is to protect the system, don't know how that works if it causes the compressor to overheat
Hope your problem gets solved and then maybe mine can follow suit. ;);)
Cheers Ken

[Graeme]

Hi Ken,

I've just read on Disco3.co.uk about a D3 owner who replaced the dryer after having been told that be needed a new compressor. His compressor now only runs for 20-30 seconds getting the vehicle up to height.

If I get to fit the new compressor, I'll do a blow check of the new dryer before fitting, maybe even doing a bench run of the compressor comparing the output of the new dryer with the "improved" old one. Perhaps even new compressors have been fitted with overly-restrictive dryers.

[Celtoid]

I've got an AUG 2009 D4 3.0 SE. Probably one of the first in Oz. The suspension was a bit moody but 90% of the time was fine. I reported the slow raise time to LR, bum first of course and got all the stories that have been reported on this thread. LR changed the drier and it seemed fractionally better.

I then got a few overheat warnings and a complete failure. Once the car had been off for a little while, it was all good and no repeats. However I still took it to LR and they changed the compressor. It's been fine since then.

On a week long Fraser Island trip I was constantly changing height due to the speed you can drive on some of the areas. The car had no issues at all.

It's been almost a year since the compressor was changed and it's been faultless since then. It does get a little slow after constant use.....but nothing more than 15 to 20 seconds. Normal is between almost instantanious and 5 secs.

[gghaggis]

Why are people selecting access when on the beach? It's not a good idea to start with (not trying to excuse LR for shoddy compressors, just trying to understand the logic here).

Cheers,

Gordon

[Celtoid]

Why are people selecting access when on the beach? It's not a good idea to start with (not trying to excuse LR for shoddy compressors, just trying to understand the logic here).

Cheers,

Gordon

Cause it's there I suppose. ;)

I used to use mine all the time...not on the beach but when parking in the city, etc.

After a while I just couldn't be bothered anymore. I only use access if loading something really heavy or awkward or once in a blue moon for short arse people...LOL!!!

I never used to actually have any issues raising from access to normal just from normal to off-road.

Cheers,

Kev.

[roamer]

Why are people selecting access when on the beach? It's not a good idea to start with (not trying to excuse LR for shoddy compressors, just trying to understand the logic here).

Cheers,

Gordon

Don't usually use access on beach, but have rooftop tent and sometimes it's easier to level ladder. Problem is going normal to off road
Cheers Ken

[Graeme]

I then got a few overheat warnings and a complete failure. Once the car had been off for a little while, it was all good and no repeats. However I still took it to LR and they changed the compressor. It's been fine since then.
My compressor has just been replaced. I got the opportunity to try blowing through the new dryer before fitment and was pleased to find that it was very easy. Hence the original compressor had a good reason to be slow at raising the front and to then totally fail after such a short time. The revised s/w that will reduce the reservoir pressure to remove inappropriate excessive workload from the compressor still needs to be applied, as applies for all D3, D4, RRS & FFRR vehices. It appears to have overcome the slow-rising special feature.

[Celtoid]

My compressor has just been replaced. I got the opportunity to try blowing through the new dryer before fitment and was pleased to find that it was very easy. Hence the original compressor had a good reason to be slow at raising the front and to then totally fail after such a short time. The revised s/w that will reduce the reservoir pressure to remove inappropriate excessive workload from the compressor still needs to be applied, as applies for all D3, D4, RRS & FFRR vehices. It appears to have overcome the slow-rising special feature.

Excellent news.

Hope it keeps behaving.

Cheers,

Kev.

[Graeme]

I'm satisfied that my vehicle's slow to rise problem has been resolved. Yesterday after making a calibration adjustment to raise the front by 10mm each side because it has always been low, I was able to go up and down several times whilst checking all combinations of Llams and various height modes without any sign of overheating or slow to rise. The front jumped up each time, albeit after the rear but I suspect that's by design. The ambient temperature was around 30 degrees.

I'm sure the problem was the very restrictive dryer that required too high a pressure to get air through, which eventually wore-out the compressor. Either the dryer had too much dessicant or its compression spring was too strong, but I suspect too much dessicant and probably by not very much - a tablespoon or so. Once the compressor has been removed from the vehicle, remove the dryer retaining screw, unclip the dryer then do the simple blow-through test. A few screws hold the back plate on the dryer, under which there's a large spring, a compression plate and the loose dessicant.

[Graeme]

Well, the good raising time didn't last very long as over the last week or two, raising from access to normal height has been taking several minutes. New suspension ecu software to reduce the reservoir pressure has made it even worse, whereby after a few hours of driving it still took far too long for it to regain normal height. I'll hook-up the Faultmate to check the reservoir pressure but I suspect the dessicant in the dryer on this new compressor has expanded due to the moisture that's around again and because of the excessively-strong spring, the dessicant is now too compressed to allow the air through at a decent rate. I'm going to try to remove the dryer without removing the compressor. This time I'll see if I can get it fixed properly before this compressor is also destroyed.

[Ashes]

Graeme,
how did you go removing the dryer without removing the compressor, possible? I'd like to check mine as the compressor seems to run for a long time after raising the vehicle and I've recenty had the suspension warning lights come on occasionally after using the EAS

thx,
Ashes

[Graeme]

Yes, the dryer can be extracted without removing the compressor assembly. With the lower cover removed (unclip the air-lines at the rear before attempting to extract the cover), a stubby Phillips head screwdriver easily undoes the retaining screw.

The dryer wasn't particularly restrictive, so either there's a leak somewhere between the compressor and the rear valve blocks (front has been checked) or a valve in the compressor itself isn't closing properly.

[Graeme]

I finally got around to having another look for the cause of the slow rising. The problem is now fixed with the vehicle once again rising quite quickly.

Recently I had cause to look at suspension system fault codes and found one for the reservoir valve although I was not aware of any console message having been issued. Anyway, the cause was a poor electrical connection at the suspension ecu, so nothing to do with the compressor itself and I was very pleased with that.

I did not expect that a non-functioning reservoir valve would cause such slow rising but now understand why multiple off-road height activations would quickly slow if the reservoir didn't get a chance to refill properly.

[adzee]

How did you get the valve to work again? Where are they located? Mine rises slowest on the front, is that normal?

[Celtoid]

How did you get the valve to work again? Where are they located? Mine rises slowest on the front, is that normal?

Don't know about normal....but lots do it! I think somebody was once told that it was to stop glaring other vehicles when the headlights are on....but, I don't know the truth. Probably just a case of pumping two coils at a time.

Cheers,

Kev.

[Graeme]

The front always rises to its full height last. Both usually start to rise at the same time but when the reservoir runs low on pressure, the compressor by itself is much slower and the rear completes long before the front does. Changing heights frequently doesn't give the reservoir chance to fill properly so the front being slow to rise is seen more often.

Edit: The front valve block has larger orifices than the rear in an attempt to get the heavier front to rise at about the same rate. Perhaps with a suitably heavy load in the rear the front would rise at the same rate.

[CaverD3]

I think it maybe designed to raise the back first and lowerr the front first to stop the lights blinding oncoming traffic when changed.

[superquag]

I think it maybe designed to raise the back first and lowerr the front first to stop the lights blinding oncoming traffic when changed.

Thats what my Classic does, specifically for this reason.- Read it in the handbook and/or the RAVE manual.

The back end also pops up faster than the front, though not by tooo much.:p