My county is better than your puma

[dullbird]

Thought I would start a thread just for the county owner that hates the puma...that way you can crap on as much as you like and with as much relevance as you like:D



ENJOY!!!:p

[Sprint]

why? County owners know they're in a superior vehicle, especially if thiers has an Isuzu!...... nothing to brag about!

[gunny]

lol...very rarely do i post. I am currently not an owner of either but have been lurking here for a very long time waiting until I actually own one.

I thoroughly enjoy the passion & diversity represented on this site but more so the depth of knowledge related to the brand.

All I can say is there is nothing like a bit of fishing after certain recent posts -;

[Rangier Rover]

Hence why I purchased my 4BD1T 120" Very reliable, robust, simple (Can be serviced in adverse conditions), loves deep water and very hard work.
Just done the 275k service and its not quite run in yet!

[rovercare]

Hence why I purchased my 4BD1T 120" Very reliable, robust, simple, loves deep water and very hard work.
Just done the 275k service and its not quite run in yet!

Just needs an extra cab:)

[flagg]

Thought I would start a thread just for the county owner that hates the puma...that way you can crap on as much as you like and with as much relevance as you like:D

wait, is this some kind of reverse psychology? :eek::p

[justinc]

Thanks a bunch Lou! Now I'll have to keep a close eye on this thread as the slanging starts...:angel:

My angle is why not have one of each????:wasntme:


JC 'The fence sitter'

:p

[flagg]

My angle is why not have one of each????:wasntme:


You know, I was thinking this exact thing today....

[rovercare]

My angle is why not have one of each????:wasntme:





You know, I was thinking this exact thing today....

Thats so you can drive one, when the other is being repaired?:angel:

[Rangier Rover]

Just needs an extra cab:) But I like sticking my elbow out the window. Think I might have a sit in yours first.
I'm trying to come up with some way of an extenda door:wacko:

I'm thinking early county doors extended, reskinned, and custom made removable door tops:twisted:
Not like I need another project ATM.

[Blknight.aus]

DB you dont even have a county?

how could you possibly know how bad you have it?

[rovercare]

But I like sticking my elbow out the window. Think I might have a sit in yours first.
I'm trying to come up with some way of an extenda door:wacko:

I'm thinking early county doors extended, reskinned, and custom made removable door tops:twisted:
Not like I need another project ATM.

Yep, elbow out the window will be no more:( can still sit forearm out though, will be interesting, but I'm 6'3" and will value the leg room moreso:D

Will have the other can sitting, the doors appear very easy to extend, might give me something to think about one day

[dobbo]

Do you think if I loaned her the Turdis for a week she'll see?

[Blknight.aus]

both you and I know that the turdis would never make it that far in time because once again your fat ass would have overloaded something and broken it....

and your cheapskate repairs dont help.....

bublegum and crepe bandages.....


besides she doesnt like the colour brown.

I think envy green is better... its kinda like DPCU base green, perhaps a ride in a perentie would be more in order....

ahhh the perentie, The convertable landrover, Lets see the puma brigade try that trick....

[clean32]

:twisted::twisted::twisted:
Do you think if I loaned her the Turdis for a week she'll see?

It would scare her big time, no need for motor swap outs, and her local dealers will not have to hide every time she drives past. NB drives past not drives in. they may even forget her name. But on the down side, DB driving a county and not a puma would mean the following.

1 She would get lonely, no LR mechanics to complain to
2 Not much to post about
3 At Least 1 LR mechanic would be made redundant
4 the owner of her dealership will get involved in some Nigerian scam, since his income has halved due to the lack of warranty claim work.
5 Dobbo will start to look almost like a normal human. No county so he has to walk.
6 DB will become so besotted by the county that she will forgo all other earthly possessions
7 Dobbo now down to a sprightly 92KG is now showing chronic county withdrawal symptoms, this effects his judgment and ability to think clearly.
8 DB stops shaving, and grows a beard
9 Dobbo, in his Pain makes an unholy proposal to DB to get his county back
10 DB levels pedophile and bestiality charges against Dobbo.
11 DB shaves her head, wraps herself in a white sheet and starts dancing on the street chanting " Hari county, Hari County” after attaching little bells to her now very hairy ankles.
12 Dobbo has all charges against him dropped, but is jailed for being an idiot in giving away his county in the first place.


All I can think of for now, there must be more though.

In short I think its a good idea:twisted::twisted:

[justinc]

Would you two leave each other (and Dobbo) alone and stop harrassing poor old birthday girl???

I'm a bit peeved at her actually for starting this thread over here....:p


I reckon she KNEW it'd cause disruption in the otherwise tranquil Isuzu mecca....


I'm of to sleep now so BEHAVE you mob!

I'll be checking up in the morning so be nice and play pleasantly. Please.

JC

[Blknight.aus]

5 Dobbo will start to look almost like a normal human.
and on that day satan will drive to work in a snow plough and I will forget my towel.

7 Dobbo now down to a sprightly 92KG is now showing chronic county withdrawal symptoms, this effects his judgment and ability to think clearly.

he could think clearly in the first place?


12 Dobbo has all charges against him dropped, but is jailed for being an idiot in giving away his county in the first place.

and thus history repeats itself. after all thats why he got here in the first place.

[justinc]

OI!!

I said be NICE!!:(


Now go to sleep you lot:wasntme:

JC

[Blknight.aus]

that was nice...

besides I knew you were joking when you posted up



I reckon she KNEW it'd cause disruption in the otherwise tranquil Isuzu mecca....


Tranquility denotes peace.

youve started a suzi before right? Peace and tranquility aint exactly the phraseology that comes to mind regarding that event.

[clean32]

that was nice...

besides I knew you were joking when you posted up



Tranquility denotes peace.

youve started a suzi before right? Peace and tranquility aint exactly the phraseology that comes to mind regarding that event.

change your idle to about 900 rpm

[Quarks]

But it's more fun to set off everyone else's alarms, simply by driving through a carpark!

:p

[Blknight.aus]

almost as much fun as setting off smoke alarms by not going to high idle on copha after start up......

[spudboy]

I was expecting more posts on this thread from Dobbo....... 1 is a pretty poor effort (so far) :p

[Blknight.aus]

the shock of his left brain coming out with the post about lending DB the county for a week probably made his right brain go comatose.

[dobbo]

:twisted::twisted::twisted:

It would scare her big time, no need for motor swap outs, and her local dealers will not have to hide every time she drives past. NB drives past not drives in. they may even forget her name. But on the down side, DB driving a county and not a puma would mean the following.

1 She would get lonely, no LR mechanics to complain to
2 Not much to post about
3 At Least 1 LR mechanic would be made redundant
4 the owner of her dealership will get involved in some Nigerian scam, since his income has halved due to the lack of warranty claim work.
5 Dobbo will start to look almost like a normal human. No county so he has to walk.
6 DB will become so besotted by the county that she will forgo all other earthly possessions
7 Dobbo now down to a sprightly 92KG is now showing chronic county withdrawal symptoms, this effects his judgment and ability to think clearly.
8 DB stops shaving, and grows a beard
9 Dobbo, in his Pain makes an unholy proposal to DB to get his county back
10 DB levels pedophile and bestiality charges against Dobbo.
11 DB shaves her head, wraps herself in a white sheet and starts dancing on the street chanting " Hari county, Hari County” after attaching little bells to her now very hairy ankles.
12 Dobbo has all charges against him dropped, but is jailed for being an idiot in giving away his county in the first place.


All I can think of for now, there must be more though.

In short I think its a good idea:twisted::twisted:


that just sounds like a good night out in Newtown NSW dunno about SA

[HBWC]

But I like sticking my elbow out the window. Think I might have a sit in yours first.
I'm trying to come up with some way of an extenda door:wacko:

I'm thinking early county doors extended, reskinned, and custom made removable door tops:twisted:
Not like I need another project ATM.
would santana doors fit some have a fold down windo frame

[clean32]

would santana doors fit some have a fold down windo frame

what a good idea, cut the bolts of a S3 frame, maybe some rear door hinges etc

[flagg]

Thats so you can drive one, when the other is being repaired?:angel:

They are not mutually exclusive.. Just drop a 4bd1t in the puma.. I mean you need to replace the engines anyway! :p

[Blknight.aus]

pfft like the piddly 6 cogger could handle the torque from a 4bd1 in stock trim let alone worked a bit.

[stig0000]

COOOMMEEE ONNN TD555!!!! YER ALL THE WAY,,, , :wasntme::wasntme: ima run now:D:p

[isuzutoo-eh]

Could the 6 speed in the current model survive a 4BD1?

[Sprint]

youve started a suzi before right? Peace and tranquility aint exactly the phraseology that comes to mind regarding that event.

to misquote someone on another forum:

A puma sounds like a wheezy Hugh Grant

A 4BD1 sounds like the devil after waking up with a hangover to discover he's out of cigarettes and coffee......

[Blknight.aus]

to misquote someone on another forum:

A puma sounds like a wheezy Hugh Grant

A 4BD1 sounds like the devil after waking up with a hangover to discover he's out of cigarettes and coffee......

damnit Im out of characters for my signature....

just for laughs...

see what happens when the appy you dont like thinks hes done a great job at putting the exhaust back on but doesnt know while he was off bludging all morning you were busy removing the exaust manifold and putting it back on sans gaskets buy with some 5mm spacers........

for added effect disable the starter by unplugging the starter lead from the back of the ignition barrel so he has to start it by jumping the starter terminals.

:).....

for the appy.

yes, I am aware that it was you that super glued the lid of my coffee cup shut.

[abaddonxi]

to misquote someone on another forum:

A puma sounds like a wheezy Hugh Grant

A 4BD1 sounds like the devil after waking up with a hangover to discover he's out of cigarettes and coffee......

So they sound more like Jack Nicholson, then.

[justinc]

that was nice...

besides I knew you were joking when you posted up



Tranquility denotes peace.

youve started a suzi before right? Peace and tranquility aint exactly the phraseology that comes to mind regarding that event.

Yeah right you are there Dave. I feel TRANQUIL and AT PEACE when I am in my RR and listeing to that glorious engine...:D

JC

[dobbo]

All these posts should start with the phrase "My County is better than Dullbird's Puma because"

[Blknight.aus]

thats easy.

we havent had to reprogram the ECU yet.

[Blknight.aus]

So they sound more like Jack Nicholson, then.

I was thinking clint eastwood in heartbreak ridge.

[abaddonxi]

Not making generalisations about Puma owners, but the only Puma driving visitor here has refused offers of a test drive of my death-trap multiple times.

And the Puma did have to be disinfected thorughly after I took it for a drive.

Maybe that says more about scruffy moutaineers than anything else.:p

[clean32]

thats easy.

we havent had to reprogram the ECU yet.

Just as well

I went to remove the plastic cover LH side of passenger foot well. Well there is no plastic there so I guess the ECU isn’t there either. So I went to look under the plastic over the gearbox tunnel, shock horror there is no plastic there either so I guess the ecu isn’t there. So I looked under the passenger seat, all I found there were a couple of truck batteries. next I looked under the drivers seat, well all I found there was a brand new fan belt dated 1988, and unopened bottle of brake fluid and an unopened bottle of PS fluid along with a jack, wheel brace and a few other bits and peaces.

I really have no idea where the ECU on an Isuzu county is hidden; just as well it gives no problems.

[clean32]

Could the 6 speed in the current model survive a 4BD1?

If you wound the screw back in and drove it gently like a puma, sure you would get a couple of months

[isuzutoo-eh]

If you wound the screw back in and drove it gently like a puma, sure you would get a couple of months

mmmm Lucky I have a good ol' 4 speed then ;), and of course its better than DB's puma :D

[Blknight.aus]

"My County is better than Dullbird's Puma because"

...without all the sound insulation its easy to find where the new rattle is coming from and diagnose it correctly from the drivers seat without having to goto the dealer numerous times.

...when the beer fridge drains the batteries to below 6 volts you can just jump start it without having to worry about what bit of electronics is going to let the smoke out.

...If the beer fridge has let the beer get too warm to be able to bribe a jump start just undo 2 bolts and roll/push/tow start it.

...when the condensor got spudded I just opened the vent flaps and took the door tops off (wait thats a series/santana/perentie thing)

... I drove in some heavy rain and the fueltank didnt fill up with water

...when the fuel tank got full of water I just siphoned the water out, drained the fuel water separator and re bled it... and it started... without having to goto a dealers.

... After It got filled up with mud I just popped the stero out and drove it into a deeper river to wash it.

... Its got a proven track record, its already over 15 years old and hasnt needed a visit to a dealer in the last 10

... its done 500K Km and now that the engines finally bedded in properly I can really have some fun with it.

... I could have had it with a V8 if I wanted.

... I can take the roof off.

... it was made with original landrover parts not some crappy american leftovers

... hand throttle.

[Sprint]

yes, I am aware that it was you that super glued the lid of my coffee cup shut.
now thats just not on...... i take it you've only just started playing with the poor boys head?

... After It got filled up with mud I just popped the stero out and drove it into a deeper river to wash it.
where did you put the towel?

[clean32]

...

... After It got filled up with mud I just popped the stero out and drove it into a deeper river to wash it.

.

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Roll ing::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Blknight.aus]

now thats just not on...... i take it you've only just started playing with the poor boys head?

nahh that was about 6 months ago now.... and he thought he was going to get a sign off for the good work he'd done.


where did you put the towel?

laid on it on the roof while i let the vibrations from the diesel agitate the water like a washing machine.

[HBWC]

... it was made with original landrover parts not some crappy american leftovers

... hand throttle.

but the v8 was american but the americans thought the ally v8 was crap and to small
and the izusu is made in Taiwan
still good motors tho

[Blknight.aus]

just to nit pick.....

the poms got the buick donk form the yanks and refined it and made it work, they didnt just drop in some leftover parts from a small car.

the suzis a jap motor not a Taiwaneese thing.

what would you rather have, jap or american engineering?

[dlatn]

Have both a Puma and a County.

County is the superior vehicle.

The Puma is a hairdresser's car in comparison.

You know, like a Range Rover or Discovery:wasntme:

[LR D4]

Have both a Puma and a County.

County is the superior vehicle.

The Puma is a hairdresser's car in comparison.

You know, like a Range Rover or Discovery:wasntme:

Love to see the pics of them both :wasntme:

[sclarke]

Blah, as if a County is better than a Puma....

Lets see why??????

Who owns a New county??? mmmmmm with no km on the clock...
Most have over 300k on the clock and are worn out...

The diesel in them is a Truck motor from a jap POS, it rattles everything apart and destroys Gearboxes...

The trim is not as perdy as a puma, but is more simplistic.... better if the county is a Non AC model as you have a True Dash.....
Both are crap... Defender dash with air vents are the best...

Seats...... mmmmm 30yo... not as nice as a puma...

Both suck when it comes to power..... and gearboxes....lol

End of the Day...

Get a Worn out County for $2000 and put a nice 4.2 stroker with Motec or a 4.6 and put an Auto behind it.
Then convert it to 4 wheel discs, Twin lock it and lift it the legal 2"
$20k later you have.............................................. .................................................. ..


Mine......

:):):):):):)

[Bush65]

I may be mistaken, but I thought Puma was something like the name of the project to fit the Ford Transit engine into a Defender. Also thought County was an optional trim level for 110's and rangies.

I am far from expert on 110's or Defenders, so I stand to be corrected, but I believe Land Rover penny pinching (could be a pommie thing!) has been the cause of many of its problems/issues. Over the years it shows in the reduction of drive train strength, e.g. LT77, Salisbury to P38 diffs, and timing gears from 200Tdi to 300Tdi. Fortunately Land Rover did not design the 4BD1 (certainly not even the slightest sign of penny pinching there) or the TDV6 and TDV8.

My 4BD1T is now in its 4th chassis :D and still as good as new. I wonder how many will be able to make that claim for their Puma engines - hang on the're going about it the opposite way :D

[slug_burner]

I may be mistaken, but I thought Puma was something like the name of the project to fit the Ford Transit engine into a Defender. Also thought County was an optional trim level for 110's and rangies.

I am far from expert on 110's or Defenders, so I stand to be corrected, but I believe Land Rover penny pinching (could be a pommie thing!) has been the cause of many of its problems/issues. Over the years it shows in the reduction of drive train strength, e.g. LT77, Salisbury to P38 diffs, and timing gears from 200Tdi to 300Tdi. Fortunately Land Rover did not design the 4BD1 (certainly not even the slightest sign of penny pinching there) or the TDV6 and TDV8.

My 4BD1T is now in its 4th chassis :( and still shaking like when it was new.I wonder how many will be able to make that claim for their Puma engines - hang on the're going about it the opposite way :D

Slight liberty with the quote having inserted the bold italics text. But that is probably not far from the truth:twisted::wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

My 4BD1T is now in its 4th chassis :D and still as good as new. I wonder how many will be able to make that claim for their Puma engines - hang on the're going about it the opposite way :D


ok, so now that youve broken it in, ya gunna tweak it?

[Bush65]

ok, so now that youve broken it in, ya gunna tweak it?
IP governor tweaks, different turbo and exhaust manifold, intercooler, head studs, and chevy valve springs.

[Bush65]

Slight liberty with the quote having inserted the bold italics text. But that is probably not far from the truth:twisted::wasntme:
:eek: I never saw it run when new (taken out of an Isuzu truck before I saw it), but in my experience it never has shaken enough to be concerned about, certainly never contributed to chassis or any other problems.

So I hope it will be as smooth as it was before, now in what I hope will be the final chassis :)

[Sprint]

now in what I hope will be the final chassis :)

wishful thinking if ever i saw it!

[dobbo]

"My County is better than Dullbird's Puma because"

Even trying my bloody hardest, following Tusker wherever it goes, I still cannot break the rear diff or trailing arms;)

[Blknight.aus]

Dobbo, the Adgies cant do it...

what makes you think you can? (yep, thats a challange for ya)

[dobbo]

Dobbo, the Adgies cant do it...

what makes you think you can? (yep, thats a challange for ya)


How much you putting on I cant smash a sally? and whats the time frame?

[Blknight.aus]

how long have you had it?

and I'll bet you the sound of my stunned disbelief.

[dobbo]

how long have you had it?

and I'll bet you the sound of my stunned disbelief.


2 minutes silence from you, I could sell that;)

Don the 37's

[Blknight.aus]

weigh that up against the bleating and crap you'll get from your wife when you break yet another thing......

I still reckon you'd do the prop, halfshaft, clutch or box before you broke the sals.

[djam1]

It is rumored a certain individual out of Alice Springs a few years ago while having a
dispute with Land Rover loaded a ute with many 200 litre drums of fuel
and drove the vehicle flat out off road until he broke the Sals. (tubes I understand)
I understand it took a while

[justinc]

Don't forget the last Td5 Defenders from 2003 had that useless rear diff too. I have done 1 sals conversion already, and a 2005 110 sitting outside the workshop waiting for 1 too after only 120K:mad::mad:

Sals Rule:):)

JC

[isuzurover]

I have snapped a salisbury halfshaft behind a naturally asthmatic 2.25D. Mal Story said it was a non-genuine shaft, but still...

but anyway, back on topic:

"My County is better than Dullbird's Puma because"

It has done ~400000km without needing the engine or diffs replaced. In fact only 2 clutches and a gearbox rebuild

[Blknight.aus]

It is rumored a certain individual out of Alice Springs a few years ago while having a
dispute with Land Rover loaded a ute with many 200 litre drums of fuel
and drove the vehicle flat out off road until he broke the Sals. (tubes I understand)
I understand it took a while

now thats a rumour I'd love to know more about.

[EchiDna]

It is rumored a certain individual out of Alice Springs a few years ago while having a
dispute with Land Rover loaded a ute with many 200 litre drums of fuel
and drove the vehicle flat out off road until he broke the Sals. (tubes I understand)
I understand it took a while

in 2 wheel drive I suppose? i can imagine the half shafts dying well before the diff, probably even if you drained the diff...

[JDNSW]

I have snapped a salisbury halfshaft behind a naturally asthmatic 2.25D. Mal Story said it was a non-genuine shaft, but still...

but anyway, back on topic:

"My County is better than Dullbird's Puma because"

It has done ~400000km without needing the engine or diffs replaced. In fact only 2 clutches and a gearbox rebuild

1. The question arises - what happened to the original axle? (that it was replaced by a non-genuine)

2. The next service on my County is the 500,000km one. The engine has had three new thermostats and has had the alternator overhauled twice, the starter once and a few seals and gaskets. Three clutches, but two of these were because the gearbox was out. Gearbox has been overhauled, transfer case centre diff has been overhauled, transfer case idler gear replaced, front diff replaced with the 6x6 one. Otherwise only routine replacements such as U-joints, swivels, one set of front brake pads, two sets rear brake shoes.

Oh, and replace a few rivets. (Ignoring repairs such as reupholstering seats, new windscreens, new headlights, and modifications such as cruise control, central locking, extra fuel and water tanks, headlight relays and accident repairs)

Is it likely that the current puma engined Landrover will have such a short list of repairs after 500,000km and 23 years? Possible, but seems unlikely. Even if parts are still available in 23 years.

John

[Bush65]

It is rumored a certain individual out of Alice Springs a few years ago while having a
dispute with Land Rover loaded a ute with many 200 litre drums of fuel
and drove the vehicle flat out off road until he broke the Sals. (tubes I understand)
I understand it took a while
I don't know about that particular incident/rumour, but it does appear that the Land Rover Wolf's used by the British military changed from the Salisbury to P38 style diffs because of this tube failure. Apparently the P38 housing could be more easily modified for a higher GVM.

The P38 diff is considerably weaker though. Although they went from 2 to 4 pinion diff, the bearings on the main pinion were moved closer together than the previous rover diff, which now results in common failures of the crown wheel and pinion.

[isuzurover]

I don't know about that particular incident/rumour, but it does appear that the Land Rover Wolf's used by the British military changed from the Salisbury to P38 style diffs because of this tube failure. Apparently the P38 housing could be more easily modified for a higher GVM.

The P38 diff is considerably weaker though. Although they went from 2 to 4 pinion diff, the bearings on the main pinion were moved closer together than the previous rover diff, which now results in common failures of the crown wheel and pinion.

On this note John - When I install my new (locked disc brake) sals into the 110, I was considering welding some sort of brace/strengthening bar between the axle tubes. However I am unsure how well that would work ( and if it would just concentrate stresses where the brace is attached instead of where the tubes are pressed into the centre casing). Any thoughts? Or tips on brace design?

EDIT:
Truss designs like this seem common, however they would interfere with the A-Frame ball joint mount.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

However all these trusses only spread the load out a couple of inches further than the casing. Surely it would be best for the truss to spread the load out as far as possible???

[Bush65]

On this note John - When I install my new (locked disc brake) sals into the 110, I was considering welding some sort of brace/strengthening bar between the axle tubes. However I am unsure how well that would work ( and if it would just concentrate stresses where the brace is attached instead of where the tubes are pressed into the centre casing). Any thoughts? Or tips on brace design?

EDIT:
Truss designs like this seem common, however they would interfere with the A-Frame ball joint mount.
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/assets/images/diffcover/d60fronttruss.jpg

However all these trusses only spread the load out a couple of inches further than the casing. Surely it would be best for the truss to spread the load out as far as possible???
When I have seen that kind of bridge on Dana axle assemblies, I assumed the main reason was to provide something to support upper link mounts - not wanting to weld the mounts to the cast housing.

As long as the diff housing is stronger than the tubes and the tubes are fitted properly, you are better (IMHO) to use heavier wall tube.

If the material strength of housing and tube were the same, then compare section properties, in particular the section modulii ('Z'), at the bosses where the tubes fit and the tube.

These are both hollow circular sections so, where 'D' is OD and 'd' is ID:
Z = 3.1416(D^4 - d^4) / (32 x D)

Housing is ok if Z for housing bosses > Z for axle tubes. Then wall thickness of axle tubes can be increased until both Z's are similar.

If allowable material strengths are different, then multiply each Z by the associated allowable material strength and compare those values.

i.e. allowable strength = tensile strength / SF

Generally I would use a larger safety factor for the cast housing material to determine allowable material strength. The larger factor is to account for such things as casting variations/flaws and lower ductility.

The diff housing and axle tubes are subjected to combined torsion (reaction from link forces) and bending (reaction from wheel and spring forces).

If the section modulus of the housing bosses is > = to the axle tubes, then the housing will withstand the torsional loading better - simply because the od of the bosses is larger than od of tubes.

There are many possible bending cases or combinations to consider.

Vertical loads from the vehicle weight when supported by the wheels, or when supported by the diff housing (on a rock for example). Which induce bending in the vertical plane.

Horizontal loads from tyre traction, link forces, steps/ledges at tyres and or diff.

Bending is proportional to the algebraic sum of the different forces and reactions to one side of the section under consideration x distance from the section to the force - force x distance is called the moment of the force and will be assigned either clockwise (+ve) or counter clockwise (-ve).

Without getting into a discussion of why, the worse case bending loads and critical section locations are:

For low impact loading (not landing from a jump) and vehicle supported on one wheel (other wheel in air) the critical section is at the location of the spring, the forces to one side of this section are wheel loads (vertical and horizontal) and link load. This case is worse than when both wheels are sharing the vehicle weight - the vertical wheel load will be approx double that when both equally share the weight equally. If up against a ledge, the horizontal load may be significant.

For landing from a jump, the dynamic vertical load can be much higher and it is important to reduce it by transform the kinetic energy into strain energy in the springs at as low a spring force as possible (i.e. large bump travel). The critical section is at the location of the springs. This is assuming the landing impacts on the tyres and not the diff housing.

In both of the above cases, if the distance from the wheel to spring is increased, the bending will also be increased proportionally.

If the weight is supported by the diff sitting on the ground, the reaction from the ground will be pushing up and the spring forces and wheel weight will be down.

The critical section will be either where the bosses protrude from the diff housing or where the axle tubes protrude from the bosses (depending on comparative section modulii). Without a more thorough check, it is probably fair to say, if the distance from the critical section to the springs is more than double the distance from the spring to the wheel, this case is likely to be worse than the 1st case above (weight on one wheel).

In this last case a truss will help by moving the critical section out to where the truss connects to the axle tube. It does this by reducing the distance form the critical section to the loads (and hence reducing the moment).

[isuzurover]

Thanks John.

FYI, I recall the tubes are 80 mm OD and 5.6 mm wall (however they may be machined down slightly where pressed into the housing. I will measure the housing up tonight.

[Sprint]

I notice theres a few threads asking about high KM pumas, TD5's, TD6's, etc

Can I ass assume people will start asking high km Isuzu's in around 15 years time, with people questioning:

"My Isuzu has clocked up 1.8 million k's should I think about replacing the welch plugs anytime soon?"

"GRRRR torque impulse just destroyed the LAST LT95 in the state, anyone know of a truck box that will fit with minimal mods?"

[Blknight.aus]

when that happens there will be some smart ass saying something like.

"no, you dont have to worry about the welch plugs during the run in period"

[Sprint]

or "Hi Guys, just bought my first Isuzu, got a tonne of K's on it and just about deafens me at 100km/h..... is something about to break?"

[Blknight.aus]

or....

Hi guys, I just bought an isuzu powered landy and Im a little confused when I put it in 1/low the engine revs dont increase. I think theres something wrong with the anti stall but it still makes it up hills ok

or

Help, Im stuck up at the top of mount somewhereorother, using my Iphone. I've left the wine cooler on for too long or used the aperitif warmer too much and the batteries flat. Is there anyway I can start this thing without getting someone up here to jump start me?

or

Help, I think I'm getting scammed, I had a problem with my isuzu powered rover being low on power and revs so I took it to a dealer. Instead of multiple visits It took them 20 minutes to fix, they only charged me $70 including labour to replace the lift pump strainer and didnt mention anything about having to bring it back later for a software update.

[Blknight.aus]

When you get back to it in the car park and some poor lady is waiting in a beat up people mover because she just backed into the wing you can just panel beat it out on the spot with a tyre mallet, not worry about the paint work then send her on her way with a "no harm done"

[clean32]

yesterdays experience

Picked up a cheery picker from access and headed out to Mt barker. how usually doing 80 klm in 3rd up the hill, empty or laden as I was yesterday.

I over took a puma with a camper trailer, he didn’t smile or wave

[Dougal]

Thanks John.

FYI, I recall the tubes are 80 mm OD and 5.6 mm wall (however they may be machined down slightly where pressed into the housing. I will measure the housing up tonight.

That's pretty thin.
I drilled the bent disco rear diff housing that donated my 24 spline diff and found it was 1/4" thick (6.35mm).

Of course the cover over the crownwheel was about 2-3mm.:(

[c.h.i.e.f]

yes last long only because they dont hav enough power to hurt themselves:D:wasntme::angel:

[Bush65]

yes last long only because they dont hav enough power to hurt themselves:D:wasntme::angel:
You are so correct. Even tuned for 500 HP is not enough to hurt the 4BD1T - don't try that at home with a puma.

Stock pumas don't produce as much power as a stock 4BD1T (or even a stock TD5) and the 4BD1T has no issues with longevity etc.

Put the same turbo from a puma on a 4BD1 and see which has more power.

[dobbo]

yes last long only because they dont hav enough power to hurt themselves:D:wasntme::angel:

A bit like your argument really.

You ready to race for pinks yet?

[clean32]

I followed a puma and a toymotor up a rather a steep track. ( STONE IN DAMP DIRT) both were spiting stones everywhere and digging holes bouncing. The discos, hiluxs etc all gave it a pass, worse they were running bets that the Isuzu wouldn’t make it. Easy idled up with out turning a stone.

i would say sand dunes would be the only place where a stock puma would have it over a stock isuzu. oh and illegal highway speeds

[Rangier Rover]

I followed a puma and a toymotor up a rather a steep track. ( STONE IN DAMP DIRT) both were spiting stones everywhere and digging holes bouncing. The discos, hiluxs etc all gave it a pass, worse they were running bets that the Isuzu wouldn’t make it. Easy idled up with out turning a stone.

i would say sand dunes would be the only place where a stock puma would have it over a stock isuzu. oh and illegal highway speeds


Amen to that:D I have found the Isuzu very good here in this part:) Nice flat torque curve.

[clean32]

actually im heading down to robe again next long weekend, will probably head down the track on Sunday. I know there will be 3 pumas there this time. I know that they will get further up the big dunes than I will, lighter quicker run up etc but then I can bog and clime, bog and clime which will get me to the top but not always over with out a bit of spade work.

[c.h.i.e.f]

bush was sort of refering to the NA but i would love someone to take me for a run in there 4bd1T :angel:
dobbo there is no doubt about ya;) i can almost bet that my 200tdi 110 with 31's (which drops the speed down a fair bit) will almost definitely beat your county and be waiting at the finish line :D even up a hill:D
as for the 4bd1T i would like to see one that is in a 110 to see how it goes :D
i have a mate willing to have a race against anyone with a 4bd1/4bd1T with his 300tdi 110 but as for the pink slip i dont know his thoughts on that;)

[1103.9TDI]

i would say sand dunes would be the only place where a stock puma would have it over a stock isuzu.[/QUOTE]

I'd still rather have a stock isuzu in sand, at least you can deflate the tyres and idle around!. A Puma would be putting the brakes on automatically, sapping what little performance is available.

[clean32]

i would say sand dunes would be the only place where a stock puma would have it over a stock isuzu.

I'd still rather have a stock isuzu in sand, at least you can deflate the tyres and idle around!. A Puma would be putting the brakes on automatically, sapping what little performance is available.[/QUOTE]

you may be correct, i will fitt the 33 265 this trip 31 245 last trip and see how that works, having said that i only droped to 28 psi last time.

[Rangier Rover]

bush was sort of refering to the NA but i would love someone to take me for a run in there 4bd1T :angel:
dobbo there is no doubt about ya;) i can almost bet that my 200tdi 110 with 31's (which drops the speed down a fair bit) will almost definitely beat your county and be waiting at the finish line :D even up a hill:D
as for the 4bd1T i would like to see one that is in a 110 to see how it goes :D
i have a mate willing to have a race against anyone with a 4bd1/4bd1T with his 300tdi 110 but as for the pink slip i dont know his thoughts on that;)

You ever come through Coolah? Let me know:D
Or I can send you a short video:angel: In comparison the 4BDT is like getting off a 250 two stroke motocross and then hopping on a 600cc Four stroke trail bike:D Gotta love that punch:cool:

[dobbo]

bush was sort of refering to the NA but i would love someone to take me for a run in there 4bd1T :angel:
dobbo there is no doubt about ya;) i can almost bet that my 200tdi 110 with 31's (which drops the speed down a fair bit) will almost definitely beat your county and be waiting at the finish line :D even up a hill:D
as for the 4bd1T i would like to see one that is in a 110 to see how it goes :D
i have a mate willing to have a race against anyone with a 4bd1/4bd1T with his 300tdi 110 but as for the pink slip i dont know his thoughts on that;)


We all have a mate with something, but, I don't expect my mates to put up their $150000 F truck because I cannot admit that I am wrong.

I'll put mine up against yours.


When and where are we racing?

[Blknight.aus]

When and where are we racing?

I'll bring the calander

[rick130]

I'll bring the calander

Cruel Dave.

I was going to suggest a sun dial :D

[c.h.i.e.f]

those F trucks r awesome dobbo cant beat that grunt :( and it would hav to be somewhere that would not put public safety at risk :cool: it is funny because IF it is a stock 4bd1 they only hav between 40-50HP lol

[c.h.i.e.f]

also thanks Rangier Rover i shal let ya know if im out that way :)

[Bush65]

those F trucks r awesome dobbo cant beat that grunt :( and it would hav to be somewhere that would not put public safety at risk :cool: it is funny because IF it is a stock 4bd1 they only hav between 40-50HP lol
Which orifice of your body does your knowledge come from! You post ....

[c.h.i.e.f]

yeah your right its probably less actually ;)

[c.h.i.e.f]

cant even pull out of first gear without having to ride the clutch considerably more than a defender :mad:

no acceleration to pass someone that is doing 40 in a 100 zone :wasntme:

5th gear is about as handy as 4th gear;)

ear muffs needed ... at idle :D

isuzu on par with a 2.8 hilux and almost all defenders will out-perform the 2.8 hence meaning???

and as for horse power ratings r all these figures rated engine horse power? or is it at the wheels/ground figures?

[Dougal]

yeah your right its probably less actually ;)

78kw @3200rpm, 106hp for the non turbo fitted to the NPR59.

[Rangier Rover]

cant even pull out of first gear without having to ride the clutch considerably more than a defender :mad:

no acceleration to pass someone that is doing 40 in a 100 zone :wasntme:

5th gear is about as handy as 4th gear;)

ear muffs needed ... at idle :D

isuzu on par with a 2.8 hilux and almost all defenders will out-perform the 2.8 hence meaning???

and as for horse power ratings r all these figures rated engine horse power? or is it at the wheels/ground figures?

:confused::confused::confused::confused:Huh? You seen what my 120 does:D Have you ever driven a good 4BD1?
Add a turbo and some fuel;) OH, 5th in mine is faster than forth:D

[c.h.i.e.f]

over 100hp ;) engine or wheels?


and my 4bd1 is in pretty good condition for almost 400k 60psi oil pressure,dont blow to much smoke and has no problems at all etc etc and wont pull the skin off a frankfurt still :eek:

[clean32]

cant even pull out of first gear without having to ride the clutch considerably more than a defender :mad:

no acceleration to pass someone that is doing 40 in a 100 zone :wasntme:

5th gear is about as handy as 4th gear;)

ear muffs needed ... at idle :D

isuzu on par with a 2.8 hilux and almost all defenders will out-perform the 2.8 hence meaning???

and as for horse power ratings r all these figures rated engine horse power? or is it at the wheels/ground figures?


sounds like some thing is realy wrong with your isuzu, sick even

[c.h.i.e.f]

i think it might be a case of people and there Dougals!!!:angel:

[Dougal]

over 100hp ;) engine or wheels?

Ever heard of a factory releasing figures for wheel hp?
I haven't.

Basically a factory 200/300tdi is a wash compared to a factory 4BD1 power and (peak) torque wise. However a lot can happen in the 20 odd years from the factory.

Anyone thinking a factory 300tdi can outrun a 4BD1 with a bolted on turbo needs to put their money on the line.
Anything thinking a tweaked 300tdi can outrun a tweaked 4BD1T needs to front up with pink slips.:angel:

[c.h.i.e.f]

i dont think there is anything wrong with the isuzu clean32 but i do accept that the 4bd1T has alot more power :D but i would love to hav someone take me for a run in one!!! rangier rover said he would take me for a run if i was out his way :D

[c.h.i.e.f]

well say for the 106hp figure u gave us u can reduce that down ALOT for wheel horse power! i know my 200tdi is running roughly 70-80hp at the wheels and my mates 300tdi running 120hp at the wheels (said he is around the 200hp at the engine)
he would race anyone on here but as i said i dont know what his thoughts were on the pink slip part;)

[Bush65]

well say for the 106hp figure u gave us u can reduce that down ALOT for wheel horse power! i know my 200tdi is running roughly 70-80hp at the wheels and my mates 300tdi running 120hp at the wheels (said he is around the 200hp at the engine)
he would race anyone on here but as i said i dont know what his thoughts were on the pink slip part;)
Your mate is dreaming, you are a nutter.

[clean32]

i dont think there is anything wrong with the isuzu clean32 but i do accept that the 4bd1T has alot more power :D but i would love to hav someone take me for a run in one!!! rangier rover said he would take me for a run if i was out his way :D

By all means, get a drive of a turbo, different planet really. But it reminds me of when I got our Isuzu. 2 Isuzu’s side by side heading up the same hill and I drag off my mate. Why? he wasn’t blowing smoke ( much) so off to Isuzu for a look see. New injectors and a play on the dyno and now he was dragging me off. so I got stuck in, timing was a bit out, rockers a bit out, matched the manifolds and cleaned them out etc now there’s nothing in the same drag up the same hill. Then I get into YT110's turbo Isuzu and hes using the brakes up the same hill ( jealous)

my point is that the Isuzu can lose performance and we don’t notice it, snorkel or dirty air filter etc, its easy to lose 10Kw. your post paints quite a depressing picture I suspect that maybe a birthday is due?

[c.h.i.e.f]

bush i know my mate is not lieing he runs his on the dyno all the time and trust me the thing does 130km/h in 4th (yes gears play a part yes) will not say his name on here due to he hates people pestering him about car related things :mad:

[c.h.i.e.f]

ill see if i can get a way of you's to get in touch with him because he is very interesed to see the figures about the 4bd1T's that everyone has :cool:

[justinc]

You ever come through Coolah? Let me know:D
Or I can send you a short video:angel: In comparison the 4BDT is like getting off a 250 two stroke motocross and then hopping on a 600cc Four stroke trail bike:D Gotta love that punch:cool:

So True Tony.

I drive Tdi's all the time, in Discos and Defenders etc, so I can compare them on a daily basis with my RR 4BD1T.
I can haul a ton trailer at 100km/h all day, and it feels unfussed at 2000rpm. Don't get me wrong, in a Defender the 300Tdi with a few tweaks will easily do this(Albeit at more revs), but you know it is working so much harder.

I would say your analogy is pretty much spot on. I felt the same when I sold my XL250R and bought a XT600:twisted:

Never go back:twisted:

JC

[Dougal]

bush i know my mate is not lieing he runs his on the dyno all the time and trust me the thing does 130km/h in 4th (yes gears play a part yes) will not say his name on here due to he hates people pestering him about car related things :mad:

Dyno runs don't mean much.
What has he done to his 300tdi to get 200hp and how much boost is he running?

Your mates 300tdi puts down 120hp max?
My 4BD1T puts down 100hp at 2000rpm at 1000m altitude. So past 2400rpm I'm still winning.
BTW, mine doesn't even have an intercooler.

[c.h.i.e.f]

hey justinc! yeah i also drive a 200tdi , dads 300tdi , our county (isuzu) and used to drive pops series 3 stage 1 (3.5v8) and i would hav to say the 300tdi wins hands down :D although the 300tdi does hav a few tweaks that help it leave most other 4x4's on the road behind ;) out of all of them i must say the isuzu has been the most trusty car out of all (dont know about the 300tdi yet but time will tell) but as for the 4bd1T i am just optimistic about all the who hars about it thats all :angel:
if the dyno is not that great wat is? considering they take into account a variety of things including all engine temps,wind speeds,tyres,weight etc etc etc
saying about the 750c temps that can be pushed out of a 4bd1T (which if kept at these temps for a period of time will almost definitely cause fatigue,hot spots or melt pistons or rings etc etc) wat about tweaking a 300tdi or 2.8tdi to these temps from there usual around 450-500c temps to the 750c they might go just as good?

i think he might be running 18-19psi with other things helping performance.....

[clean32]

Dyno runs don't mean much.
.

WHAT? in another thead all you could screem was where are the dyno charts !!!!!

[Dougal]

hey justinc! yeah i also drive a 200tdi , dads 300tdi , our county (isuzu) and used to drive pops series 3 stage 1 (3.5v8) and i would hav to say the 300tdi wins hands down :D although the 300tdi does hav a few tweaks that help it leave most other 4x4's on the road behind ;) out of all of them i must say the isuzu has been the most trusty car out of all (dont know about the 300tdi yet but time will tell) but as for the 4bd1T i am just optimistic about all the who hars about it thats all :angel:
if the dyno is not that great wat is? considering they take into account a variety of things including all engine temps,wind speeds,tyres,weight etc etc etc
saying about the 750c temps that can be pushed out of a 4bd1T (which if kept at these temps for a period of time will almost definitely cause fatigue,hot spots or melt pistons or rings etc etc) wat about tweaking a 300tdi or 2.8tdi to these temps from there usual around 450-500c temps to the 750c they might go just as good?

i think he might be running 18-19psi with other things helping performance.....

Just realised you're 18.:angel:

18-19psi cannot and will never deliver 200hp on a 2.5l diesel. He is spouting bs.
You can tweak a dyno to deliver whatever numbers you want. However the shape of the curve is the big giveaway.

[yt110]

I'd like to see the figures on a 200hp 300tdi

[justinc]

hey justinc! yeah i also drive a 200tdi , dads 300tdi , our county (isuzu) and used to drive pops series 3 stage 1 (3.5v8) and i would hav to say the 300tdi wins hands down :D although the 300tdi does hav a few tweaks that help it leave most other 4x4's on the road behind ;) out of all of them i must say the isuzu has been the most trusty car out of all (dont know about the 300tdi yet but time will tell) but as for the 4bd1T i am just optimistic about all the who hars about it thats all :angel:
if the dyno is not that great wat is? considering they take into account a variety of things including all engine temps,wind speeds,tyres,weight etc etc etc
saying about the 750c temps that can be pushed out of a 4bd1T (which if kept at these temps for a period of time will almost definitely cause fatigue,hot spots or melt pistons or rings etc etc) wat about tweaking a 300tdi or 2.8tdi to these temps from there usual around 450-500c temps to the 750c they might go just as good?

i think he might be running 18-19psi with other things helping performance.....

I see about 550 upstream and still have way enough torque for my uses:twisted: I used to have it around 650 but that is clutch destroying territory, and ate 2 auto boxes also....I reckon that turboing and intercooling mine running 15psi has almost doubled the torque of a standard 4BD1:o
I haven't dynoed it at all as there is way too many variable numbers from different dynos etc. Still, may do it one day for a look see:D

All I can say is it is a quantum leap from NA, even in mild tune/ fuelling.

JC

[rick130]

I've resisted getting involved, oh well......

In my 300Tdi I'm running 17psi, 3" dump and exhaust, the pump has been timed correctly, runs trick synthetic oil and fueled so that I can easily exceed 720*C and has seen the wrong side of 750* a couple of times with a 6mm probe so God only knows what the actual figure is..

......and it isn't that quick.....

A six cylinder Land Cruiser will blow it into the weeds, let alone a V8 Cruiser

Oh, and I'm fed up with fixing the damned thing.

My 130 is used as a truck so it will be getting a real truck engine in the medium term to replace the car engine that has needed a bottom end rebuild as the bearings can't take the load of the relatively mild state of tune it has and it will more than likely need a head gasket soon too as it's at that age when 300Tdi's let go and it's due another timing belt and I really should replace the water pump and P gasket just in case....at about 1/4 the km a Suzi would need repairs. ;)

Next to break will be the R380 behind a 4BD1T.....:(

[rick130]

I see about 550 upstream and still have way enough torque for my uses:twisted: I used to have it around 650 but that is clutch destroying territory, and ate 2 auto boxes also....
[snip]

JC

JC, do you reckon you could dig up the photo's of the 130 you converted to the 4BD1T ?

Only if you can find them easily though.

cheers.

[justinc]

JC, do you reckon you could dig up the photo's of the 130 you converted to the 4BD1T ?

Only if you can find them easily though.

cheers.

Hmm, not easily. It'd be better if I took some more. The vehicle recently had a LT95 Taper Roller transplant as the LT85 stripped 5th gear off the mainshaft again....because it could:twisted:

It'll be back again in a while for a few more mods and I'll take some more shots.

Could be a little while though.

JC

[rick130]

Hmm, not easily. It'd be better if I took some more. The vehicle recently had a LT95 Taper Roller transplant as the LT85 stripped 5th gear off the mainshaft again....because it could:twisted:

It'll be back again in a while for a few more mods and I'll take some more shots.

Could be a little while though.

JC

That's OK, I thought it might be hard to find them again as it's been a while.
It'll be a little while for me to get all my bits together anyway, I've been going 7 days/week with work ATM but that's OK too, it'll be paying for the swap, :D if I ever get the invoices out too :mad:

[Rangier Rover]

I've resisted getting involved, oh well......

In my 300Tdi I'm running 17psi, 3" dump and exhaust, the pump has been timed correctly, runs trick synthetic oil and fueled so that I can easily exceed 720*C and has seen the wrong side of 750* a couple of times with a 6mm probe so God only knows what the actual figure is..

......and it isn't that quick.....

A six cylinder Land Cruiser will blow it into the weeds, let alone a V8 Cruiser

Oh, and I'm fed up with fixing the damned thing.

My 130 is used as a truck so it will be getting a real truck engine in the medium term to replace the car engine that has needed a bottom end rebuild as the bearings can't take the load of the relatively mild state of tune it has and it will more than likely need a head gasket soon too as it's at that age when 300Tdi's let go and it's due another timing belt and I really should replace the water pump and P gasket just in case....at about 1/4 the km a Suzi would need repairs. ;)

Next to break will be the R380 behind a 4BD1T.....:(
Be interesting how the R380 holds up actually. If you don't use it as a barge like I do it should be fine.

You will love the 4BD1T .:D Mine not overly fueled, pulles away from the Cruisers and Patrols in the hills. I'd love to try a variable vane turbo with intercooling:twisted:

Quote from the last bloke who did the rego......Came back after a brake test with a big smile on his face, and said..... xxxx this thing pulls like a truck!

[Bush65]

bush i know my mate is not lieing he runs his on the dyno all the time and trust me the thing does 130km/h in 4th (yes gears play a part yes) will not say his name on here due to he hates people pestering him about car related things :mad:
I didn't say your mate was lieing. I said:

Your mate is dreaming, you are a nutter.

From evidence in your later posts I could say a lot more about you - none flattering, so will leave it there.

[dobbo]

Chief

Do you realize an NA 4BD1/LT95 will sit on 140kph quite happily?;)

[c.h.i.e.f]

sorry bush65 didnt mean to offend you.

and dobbo ringing its neck does not mean quiet happily unless you are reffering to having the right foot only half way (meaning it is quiet happy)?

yeah dougal not trying to start any fights with anyone or anything but i am just pushing the otherside of the equation about why 4bd1T's are so good just to see everyones points of view thats all :angel: when it comes down to it were all together against tojo drivers :cool:

[dobbo]

sorry bush65 didnt mean to offend you.

and dobbo ringing its neck does not mean quiet happily unless you are reffering to having the right foot only half way (meaning it is quiet happy)?

yeah dougal not trying to start any fights with anyone or anything but i am just pushing the otherside of the equation about why 4bd1T's are so good just to see everyones points of view thats all :angel: when it comes down to it were all together against tojo drivers :cool:



I don't ring anyone, nor do I wring anyones neck, yet.;)


Dude, either put up or shut up. If not pinks make it cash 2K should do it.

[Dougal]

sorry bush65 didnt mean to offend you.

and dobbo ringing its neck does not mean quiet happily unless you are reffering to having the right foot only half way (meaning it is quiet happy)?

yeah dougal not trying to start any fights with anyone or anything but i am just pushing the otherside of the equation about why 4bd1T's are so good just to see everyones points of view thats all :angel: when it comes down to it were all together against tojo drivers :cool:

The main advantage of the 4BD1T is it's 50% greater displacement and built like the proverbial brick outhouse. This means less boost to do the same job but also an engine that can take boost pressures which read like tyre pressures without giving a damn.

When you work out that power production on any engine is related to airflow, then 50% more displacement and the same boost (factory) means 50% more go.
Throw in the ability to run more than double factory boost without any internal mods and it'll take a village idiot to put money on the other horse.

[c.h.i.e.f]

dobbo u seem very keen on the idea of pink slips ;) i wouldnt want to do this for one factor and that being i dont want to see you without a truck :o how about we do it a rational way testing 2 motor vehicles against each other like a bit of a roadtest ? what do u rekon quater mile? half mile? or mile?

ok dougal i see that point ... now when isuzu rate the 4bd1T to have 13psi boost and that is boosted up to 15-20psi does the engine have problems that start to occur? where as the tdi's are already at about 14psi hence having no trouble.

[dobbo]

dobbo u seem very keen on the idea of pink slips ;) i wouldnt want to do this for one factor and that being i dont want to see you without a truck :o how about we do it a rational way testing 2 motor vehicles against each other like a bit of a roadtest ? what do u rekon quater mile? half mile? or mile?

ok dougal i see that point ... now when isuzu rate the 4bd1T to have 13psi boost and that is boosted up to 15-20psi does the engine have problems that start to occur? where as the tdi's are already at about 14psi hence having no trouble.



I have other cars, even another Land Rover, my Isuzu is my toy. If I loose it I can buy another.

So when we racing? 1/4 mile? what are we American or something? How about a race, not a wankathon.

[rovercare]

Its grown from a ****ing contest to a full on sword fight:p





Those that playing ****ing contest....gets wet toes;)



Edit: oh, just a thought, but racing is for cars........chain off's for 4wd's:angel:

[Dougal]

ok dougal i see that point ... now when isuzu rate the 4bd1T to have 13psi boost and that is boosted up to 15-20psi does the engine have problems that start to occur? where as the tdi's are already at about 14psi hence having no trouble.

No problems at 20psi. Rumour has it the head-gasket will let go around 60psi.

[dobbo]

Its grown from a ****ing contest to a full on sword fight:p





Those that playing ****ing contest....gets wet toes;)



Edit: oh, just a thought, but racing is for cars........chain off's for 4wd's:angel:


sounds good to me.

[Rangier Rover]

Its grown from a ****ing contest to a full on sword fight:p





Those that playing ****ing contest....gets wet toes;)



Edit: oh, just a thought, but racing is for cars........chain off's for 4wd's:angel:


I'll be in that:D Lets see the others idle away with what I have towed in the past:angel:

[c.h.i.e.f]

dougal ::o 60psi :o ok so you are running 20psi no problems 60psi is in dangerous territory from what u have heard so say about 35psi what would you be doing to run that in your isuzu but have no melting/desintigrating occur?

Dobbo:easy for u to say because its your play toy and worth considerably less ;) than my deefer and seems a bit of a extreme measure just to find out which vehicle goes better ;)

dougal would u have any video of your truck like rijidij does ?

[B92 8NW]

I've resisted getting involved, oh well......

In my 300Tdi I'm running 17psi, 3" dump and exhaust, the pump has been timed correctly, runs trick synthetic oil and fueled so that I can easily exceed 720*C and has seen the wrong side of 750* a couple of times with a 6mm probe so God only knows what the actual figure is..

......and it isn't that quick.....

A six cylinder Land Cruiser will blow it into the weeds, let alone a V8 Cruiser

Oh, and I'm fed up with fixing the damned thing.

My 130 is used as a truck so it will be getting a real truck engine in the medium term to replace the car engine that has needed a bottom end rebuild as the bearings can't take the load of the relatively mild state of tune it has and it will more than likely need a head gasket soon too as it's at that age when 300Tdi's let go and it's due another timing belt and I really should replace the water pump and P gasket just in case....at about 1/4 the km a Suzi would need repairs. ;)

Next to break will be the R380 behind a 4BD1T.....:(

I think this is the only section of the forum where you can get away with saying that... and I too am disgusted by my Tdi. I don't care what the apologists, the dreamers and those with their false in-their-pants dogma say, but it doesn't have the capacity or the strength to be a true workhorse engine. I really can't see the basis of an argument in this thread, it is such a blatantly obvious black and white point.

[isuzurover]

dougal ::o 60psi :o ok so you are running 20psi no problems 60psi is in dangerous territory from what u have heard so say about 35psi what would you be doing to run that in your isuzu but have no melting/desintigrating occur?

Dobbo:easy for u to say because its your play toy and worth considerably less ;) than my deefer and seems a bit of a extreme measure just to find out which vehicle goes better ;)

dougal would u have any video of your truck like rijidij does ?

YouTube- Twin turbo isuzu powered diesel F100
(note the boost guage on LHS)

Now please go away until:

(a) you are old enough to shave

or

(b) you have a clue

[justinc]

Errr, righto everyone play nicely now.


Yes the 4BD1T is a great engine, yes the Tdi is also a great engine. They just have vastly different characteristics.


This was actually a thread about Pumas aswell....:angel:


Be nice to each other :wasntme:


JC

[dobbo]

Dobbo:easy for u to say because its your play toy and worth considerably less ;) than my deefer and seems a bit of a extreme measure just to find out which vehicle goes better ;)




My engine alone is worth $3500, the rest of the car is just pure profit to you. So are you in or not. I'll put down cash to match the red book value of your Defender.

My offer is valid for 24hrs after this post, if you decline then you must admit defeat, post up a formal apology and never speak ill of a 4BD1 again.

[c.h.i.e.f]

1:that is in america where they run things on obscene amounts of boost/fueling(60,70,80psi) and dont care if the thing blows up because they can buy one for half the price we can. so what things does he hav done to the engine?
2:save money on razzors :D
3:know nothing, know something or know too much, how is this determined!!!
4:even dougal takes the time to explain things and not just hav a "thats it no questions about it way" and he loves his isuzu's and likes to argue there points, so maybe u can hav a bit more of a discusion and not just throw it out the window once someone quierys anything about them;)....
5:dobbo please take a look at the figures of the 4bd1 (NA) compared to the Tdi's ;)
6:previous statement i hav made has been that 4bd1 (NA) is around the 50hp mark and i was told i am a nutter! then the next minute someone says "4bd1T is a big difference to the 4bd1(NA) even getting twice the torque and HP around the 100-120hp" doesnt that mean that half of that is 50hp?????? hence meaning i was correct or is dividing numerals done different these days?

[justinc]

I'm off to get my beauty sleep now(Boy do I need it:p), so you lot better not let this discussion degenerate into a slanging match or heads will roll, Achtung:nazilock:

JC

[c.h.i.e.f]

ok we wont :angel: goodnight justinc lol

[isuzurover]

6:previous statement i hav made has been that 4bd1 (NA) is around the 50hp mark and i was told i am a nutter! then the next minute someone says "4bd1T is a big difference to the 4bd1(NA) even getting twice the torque and HP around the 100-120hp" doesnt that mean that half of that is 50hp?????? hence meaning i was correct or is dividing numerals done different these days?

4BD1(NA) is 85 bhp or 99 bhp depending on spec. Civvie landies from 84-90 had the 99 bhp version.

Compare that to a 2.5D, which is more or less the NA version of the 300.

Now it must be past your bedtime? Run off to the wigwam...

[Rangier Rover]

1:that is in america where they run things on obscene amounts of boost/fueling(60,70,80psi) and dont care if the thing blows up because they can buy one for half the price we can. so what things does he hav done to the engine?
2:save money on razzors :D
3:know nothing, know something or know too much, how is this determined!!!
4:even dougal takes the time to explain things and not just hav a "thats it no questions about it way" and he loves his isuzu's and likes to argue there points, so maybe u can hav a bit more of a discusion and not just throw it out the window once someone quierys anything about them;)....
5:dobbo please take a look at the figures of the 4bd1 (NA) compared to the Tdi's ;)
6:previous statement i hav made has been that 4bd1 (NA) is around the 50hp mark and i was told i am a nutter! then the next minute someone says "4bd1T is a big difference to the 4bd1(NA) even getting twice the torque and HP around the 100-120hp" doesnt that mean that half of that is 50hp?????? hence meaning i was correct or is dividing numerals done different these days?

OK... Just to make everyone feel better ;), pm me an address, I'll send you a short movie of a very hard working 4BD1T Feel free to post it up or put it on the U-Tube thing as I cant do it here.:( I'm not saying its better but it is good:D

[c.h.i.e.f]

pm to fishing_go_overhead@hotmail.com

[Rangier Rover]

pm to fishing_go_overhead@hotmail.com

:confused:Thats email to, Hit my user name, Then contact info, PM, send me a email address via PM. For your own good don't put it here as the world will see it;)
Be happy to mail you the short movie and would encourage you to post it up;)

[rick130]

Friggin hell, here I am head down, tail up trying to get a quote finished and the boys are into it :eek:

and I missed it all :(

nighty night, bed time for this lil black duck too......

[Rangier Rover]

Friggin hell, here I am head down, tail up trying to get a quote finished and the boys are into it :eek:

and I missed it all :(

nighty night, bed time for this lil black duck too......

:lol2::lol2::angel:

[rovercare]

My engine alone is worth $3500, the rest of the car is just pure profit to you. So are you in or not. I'll put down cash to match the red book value of your Defender.

My offer is valid for 24hrs after this post, if you decline then you must admit defeat, post up a formal apology and never speak ill of a 4BD1 again.

You must have a super special N/A 4BD1, to be worth $3500 grand as opposed to 2kish like most others......and for it to easily sit on 140km/hr!.....you sure it doesn't have a hidden turbo?




Or Hiclones:eek:

[Dougal]

1:that is in america where they run things on obscene amounts of boost/fueling(60,70,80psi) and dont care if the thing blows up because they can buy one for half the price we can. so what things does he hav done to the engine?

That 4BD1T is completely untouched internally. Only mods were external, compound turbos and the manifolds to make them fit, a bigger fuel injection pump and injector nozzles.

Estimated 500+hp (running over 5 times stock fuelling), but the gearbox was a problem.



5:dobbo please take a look at the figures of the 4bd1 (NA) compared to the Tdi's ;)
6:previous statement i hav made has been that 4bd1 (NA) is around the 50hp mark and i was told i am a nutter! then the next minute someone says "4bd1T is a big difference to the 4bd1(NA) even getting twice the torque and HP around the 100-120hp" doesnt that mean that half of that is 50hp?????? hence meaning i was correct or is dividing numerals done different these days?

Here it all is again in very simple terms.
4BD1 (no turbo) 85 or 99hp (landy) or 106hp (truck).
4BD1T from 116-135hp stock.
4BD1T with boost and fuel wound up (no component changed) ~170hp.
4BD1T with bigger turbo, intercooler and fuel wound up 200~hp.
4BD1T with compound turbos, big intercooler and bigger injector pump 500+hp.

[Rangier Rover]

Some one PM me a mailing address and I will post you a DVD with few little movies of a 4BD1T in its work gear:angel: I cant upload them from here:mad:

[Rangier Rover]

Some one PM me a mailing address and I will post you a DVD with few little movies of a 4BD1T in its work gear:angel: I cant upload them from here:mad:

OK, its sorted. Will burn tonight and pop it in the post tomorrow:)

[DRanged]

CHIEF

Get your 300TDI, stick some 35's on it. Hitch up your loaded camper and we'll see which pulls up the hills. Judging by the way our set up gives the V8's etc a hurry up I know where my money lies. HP gets you so far and TORQUES do the real hard work.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/896.jpg

Better still as long as its not a top speed race I'll stick some 29's on ours;)


Justin

[goanna_shire]

That is a reeeeeeeely tough rangie mate!!!! Love it! The 4bd1t would make it go like the wind!:twisted:

[abaddonxi]

CHIEF

Get your 300TDI, stick some 35's on it. Hitch up your loaded camper and we'll see which pulls up the hills. Judging by the way our set up gives the V8's etc a hurry up I know where my money lies. HP gets you so far and TORQUES do the real hard work.<snip>

Dunno, talk has gotten us onto page 16 without any horses being let out of the paddock.

[c.h.i.e.f]

thanks dougal forgot about that post :angel: well looks like i will bite the bullet and do a turbo/intercooler instal on the isuzu put a different box behind it and then i can join the official dark side :eek: :twisted: hopefully by the end of the year :D
which brings me onto i remember seeing somewere (i think it was u dougal)that a engine rebuild kit cost around $1200 (rings, pistons etc etc) is this a genuine kit? if not what is it? also what things should i be looking for when doing a rebuild? should i get a new crank for a 4bd1T or just check the existing one?
what is the part number for the head gasket?

may as well start getting things on a roll ;)

oh and deranged that is one very nice rangie i would love to see that thing do u hav any video's of it?

[isuzurover]

thanks dougal forgot about that post :angel: well looks like i will bite the bullet and do a turbo/intercooler instal on the isuzu put a different box behind it and then i can join the official dark side :eek: :twisted: hopefully by the end of the year :D
which brings me onto i remember seeing somewere (i think it was u dougal)that a engine rebuild kit cost around $1200 (rings, pistons etc etc) is this a genuine kit? if not what is it? also what things should i be looking for when doing a rebuild? should i get a new crank for a 4bd1T or just check the existing one?
what is the part number for the head gasket?

may as well start getting things on a roll ;)

oh and deranged that is one very nice rangie i would love to see that thing do u hav any video's of it?

Why rebuild? I only know two which have needed a rebuild - Dougal's, and one that DaveS bought which had been cooked when a red hose blew.

Also - why change the box?

Just bolt on a turbo (and intercooler if you wish), fit EGT, turn up the fuel, and bother about any of the other bits if they break or fall off ;) :D

[cal415]

You must have a super special N/A 4BD1, to be worth $3500 grand as opposed to 2kish like most others......and for it to easily sit on 140km/hr!.....you sure it doesn't have a hidden turbo?




Or Hiclones:eek:
Oh yeh, its super special.... super gutless. His secret is long steep down hills and tail winds, and trust me it wasnt doing it easy i was in fear of my life!!! :o
Do the sums on the gearing lt95 4th gear 3.54 diffs standard size tyres at 140kph = unhappy Isuzu.

Cheif, dont upset the Isuzu lovers, there very passionate about there rattely smoke machines. It makes me wonder what they get up to in there locked garages with them.... im sure i saw dobbo dry humping his county once :twisted:

but even I, as a v8 lover, would love to start a 2nd project truck for touring, 130 with an Isuzu with plenty of boost... yep that Isuzu with 60psi or what ever it was on youtube sounds good, and i normally dont like the sound of diesels.... its either that or a puma 130.

[Dougal]

Why rebuild? I only know two which have needed a rebuild - Dougal's, and one that DaveS bought which had been cooked when a red hose blew.

Also - why change the box?

Just bolt on a turbo (and intercooler if you wish), fit EGT, turn up the fuel, and bother about any of the other bits if they break or fall off ;) :D

Exactly, don't rebuild them if they don't need it.
Mine was rebuilt several times for all the wrong reasons.

First time it was stripped, balanced and rebuilt just to be nice. -> rebuild 1
Then the valve seals lifted and went through the oil pump -> rebuild 2
This is where I got the truck.
Then it was dusted due to a bad aircleaner (not donaldson) -> rebuild 3
On rebuild 3 I used the wrong rings, 27,000km later -> rebuild 4.

Now it's good, hasn't even leaked any oil in the last 6 months. Not that it's been far in the last 6 months.:angel:

[rovercare]

Oh yeh, its super special.... super gutless. His secret is long steep down hills and tail winds, and trust me it wasnt doing it easy i was in fear of my life!!! :o
Do the sums on the gearing lt95 4th gear 3.54 diffs standard size tyres at 140kph = unhappy Isuzu.

Cheif, dont upset the Isuzu lovers, there very passionate about there rattely smoke machines. It makes me wonder what they get up to in there locked garages with them.... im sure i saw dobbo dry humping his county once :twisted:

but even I, as a v8 lover, would love to start a 2nd project truck for touring, 130 with an Isuzu with plenty of boost... yep that Isuzu with 60psi or what ever it was on youtube sounds good, and i normally dont like the sound of diesels.... its either that or a puma 130.

I've got 3, the only one that will do 140km/hr, easily......at all:angel:.....is my turboed RR, that's on the engine governor!

N/A, they are absolutely gutless, pretty simple, such low compression...........which makes them perfect for huge boost

[c.h.i.e.f]

cal415 :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::Rolling::Rolling:

well i get the jist to just leave it as is :o considering everything seems pretty good i was going to get a compression test done by my mate just to make sure but he said if it hasnt got any problem starting,isnt blowing weird coloured smoke,isnt making funny noises and still has 60psi oil pressure it is most likely to be fine :D
so looks like i just start looking for a turbo and intercooler i was going to use a T25 of a td5 i hav been told even though they r small they can still put out some good flow etc etc or try and find a water cooled garret model ATD-T25 like my army workshop manuals suggest for the 6x6's....

as for the intercooler i am going to put it in the same spot as rijidij but i just dont know were to start looking for one :( will a td5 one be good enough? or do i need bigger?

was going to get a late model r380 pull it apart and do a bit of a rebuild and then put it in (can only dream of having a 9speed road ranger but now i am starting to really dream:eek:)or get rid fo the lt85 santana and get a lt95 or just do what isuzurover said and just wait for something to break:angel:

also sorry dullbird but looks like this thread has turned into a isuzu thread :D not much posting was done by the puma owners anyways ;)

[dullbird]

Oh yeh, its super special.... super gutless. His secret is long steep down hills and tail winds, and trust me it wasnt doing it easy i was in fear of my life!!! :o
Do the sums on the gearing lt95 4th gear 3.54 diffs standard size tyres at 140kph = unhappy Isuzu.

Cheif, dont upset the Isuzu lovers, there very passionate about there rattely smoke machines. It makes me wonder what they get up to in there locked garages with them.... im sure i saw dobbo dry humping his county once :twisted:

but even I, as a v8 lover, would love to start a 2nd project truck for touring, 130 with an Isuzu with plenty of boost... yep that Isuzu with 60psi or what ever it was on youtube sounds good, and i normally dont like the sound of diesels.... its either that or a puma 130.

Mick..How long were you waiting up there?:lol2:...long enough for him to go around If I remember :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/686.jpg

[1103.9TDI]

cal415 :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::Rolling::Rolling:

well i get the jist to just leave it as is :o considering everything seems pretty good i was going to get a compression test done by my mate just to make sure but he said if it hasnt got any problem starting,isnt blowing weird coloured smoke,isnt making funny noises and still has 60psi oil pressure it is most likely to be fine :D
so looks like i just start looking for a turbo and intercooler i was going to use a T25 of a td5 i hav been told even though they r small they can still put out some good flow etc etc or try and find a water cooled garret model ATD-T25 like my army workshop manuals suggest for the 6x6's....

as for the intercooler i am going to put it in the same spot as rijidij but i just dont know were to start looking for one :( will a td5 one be good enough? or do i need bigger?

was going to get a late model r380 pull it apart and do a bit of a rebuild and then put it in (can only dream of having a 9speed road ranger but now i am starting to really dream:eek:)or get rid fo the lt85 santana and get a lt95 or just do what isuzurover said and just wait for something to break:angel:

also sorry dullbird but looks like this thread has turned into a isuzu thread :D not much posting was done by the puma owners anyways ;)

The 'search' function on this forum is your friend, there's heaps of info on all those questions.

[dullbird]

cal415 :clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::Rolling::Rolling:

well i get the jist to just leave it as is :o considering everything seems pretty good i was going to get a compression test done by my mate just to make sure but he said if it hasnt got any problem starting,isnt blowing weird coloured smoke,isnt making funny noises and still has 60psi oil pressure it is most likely to be fine :D
so looks like i just start looking for a turbo and intercooler i was going to use a T25 of a td5 i hav been told even though they r small they can still put out some good flow etc etc or try and find a water cooled garret model ATD-T25 like my army workshop manuals suggest for the 6x6's....

as for the intercooler i am going to put it in the same spot as rijidij but i just dont know were to start looking for one :( will a td5 one be good enough? or do i need bigger?

was going to get a late model r380 pull it apart and do a bit of a rebuild and then put it in (can only dream of having a 9speed road ranger but now i am starting to really dream:eek:)or get rid fo the lt85 santana and get a lt95 or just do what isuzurover said and just wait for something to break:angel:


also sorry dullbird but looks like this thread has turned into a isuzu thread :D not much posting was done by the puma owners anyways ;)

Errr chief I think you kind of missed the point of why this thread was started by me....it was meant for Izusu owners to come in and brag about their cars :lol2:...that was the whole point.:p

I think they are doing a very good job of it also:)

However I don't recall it saying my county is better then your 300tdi so perhaps we should really change the title hey:D

[c.h.i.e.f]

Errr chief I think you kind of missed the point of why this thread was started by me....it was meant for Izusu owners to come in and brag about their cars :lol2:...that was the whole point.:p

I think they are doing a very good job of it also:)

However I don't recall it saying my county is better then your 300tdi so perhaps we should really change the title hey:D

nah i got the point i knew exactly what would happen :p yeah i dont think there is any other brand of car that has such a strong following:eek:

dullbird give me 9 days and ill be saying puma instead of 300tdi :D:D:D

1103.9tdi i shal continue my searching
but for some reason i hav missplaced the link for the turbo manifolds:mad:

[isuzutoo-eh]

i just got the go-ahead to turbo my 4bd1, so if anyone wants some before and after testing let me know. Might be a fair few months before the work is done though.

[c.h.i.e.f]

9 days get my puma then after that things will get underway on other things on the county such as turbo etc etc :D:D:D

ill be making a new thread tonight about my county rebuild and i hope that dougal,isuzurover,bush65,1103.9tdi,rangier rover and rovercare can all rather than us argue i will call a truse and ask you's to help me with my county's turbo/intercooler install :) putting different ideas and knowledge together to officially bring me over to the darkside :twisted:

[c.h.i.e.f]

yes the tables have turned ;)

[dobbo]

are we supposed to give a ****?

[cal415]

See you have hurt there feelings chief ;)

[c.h.i.e.f]

See you have hurt there feelings chief ;)

yep sure does :angel: come'on dobbo dont be like that... getting all worked up over a motor vehicle :eek: you should follow and do a turbo install at the same time! oh wait yours already has enough power as is so dont worry about it :p:p:p:tease:
i dare not to ask how long you have driven a 4bd1 for dobbo...:whistling:




cal whats your preference on extended brake lines?order them from paddocks or somewere else?

[Rangier Rover]

Here ya go Chief, a video as promised:)
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/106477-4bd1t-videos.html#post1265993

[Rangier Rover]

Here ya go Chief, a video as promised:)
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/106477-4bd1t-videos.html#post1265993

Well, see you've been on line.....Where is my thanks:mad:mad:::D

[isuzutoo-eh]

I'M SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE AWESOMENESS OF MY ISUZU
:D

[Rangier Rover]

I'M SORRY I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE AWESOMENESS OF MY ISUZU
:D

:lol2::lol2::lol2::burnrubber::burnrubber:

[c.h.i.e.f]

sorry rangier rover forgot to check this thread for awhile and thanks for the vid it does seem quiet good actually :o

[Blknight.aus]

Because...

my engine survived for more than 3 years and one model of landrover before the engine was scheduled to be superseded.

[clean32]

i think we need more posts in this thread

the puma wimmper threads alone apear to out number the posts in this thread

[Rangier Rover]

i think we need more posts in this thread

the puma wimmper threads alone apear to out number the posts in this thread

If I only had a better IP:( Cost me a bomb to post vids:mad:
Have a heap more here, I may put one up next month:twisted:

I wont bag the Puma, but certainly wouldn't swap my 4BD1T for one. Took one for a test drive a wile back and felt a bit wanting to me.

Best part about the 110/county is a very average mechanic like me can work on them;)

[Blknight.aus]

because.....

a very average mechanic can fix one on the side of the road.


Becuase....

Ive never heard anyone say "I think when it comes time to upgrade my engine I might go from a 2.5 L turbo to a 2.4l turbo instead of a 3.9l turbo."

because....

the Spinny pits of my landy dont touch the non spinny bits like the sump or the exhaust.

because....

My engines important bits are made from metal and not plastic, little things, like the oil filter.

because....

if your engines got a decent torque curve you only need 4 gears

because...

on those long loaded descents I dont need to touch the pedals, engine braking takes care of speed control.

[Didge]

Hi all, sorry in advance about this ignorant question but thought it easier to go straight to the experts rather than read copious amounts of info just to get the same result. Which motor is the 4BD1T? I've got a 95 Def with the 300Tdi? I've heard the Isuzu's are basically indestructible although a tad noisier than the 300's. The isuzu's a 3.9 litre; correct? If turboed how does it compare to the standard 300TDi and what's the economy like? I'm betting you're going to say a lot better. Thanks in advance.
cheers Gerald

[Blknight.aus]

a bit noisier? yeah sure, in the same way that the space shuttle launch is a bit noisier than a glider.

The Isuzu 4BD1 (and varients there of) were fitted mainly (in the landrover world) to the county and perentie. If driven nice they match the tdi300 for economy and in stock form beat out the tdi's at the bottom end of the rev range and in durability. Typically tho the suzi drinks about 1-2l/100K more than the tdi300. The performance of the turbo version varies depending on which turbo and fuel pump combination you have but generally its more powerfull across the range and drinks the fuel to match it if you put the boot in but again with good driving you can get it back to tdi like figures for fuel consumption.

[clean32]

a bit noisier? yeah sure, in the same way that the space shuttle launch is a bit noisier than a glider.

.
There is a post around some where? Where some one put a Db meter in an Isuzu and then a 300tdi, the difference was negligible. The vast majority can’t tell the difference between an Isuzu and a 300tdi unless told, this includes LR mechanics.

I think that in the latter model defenders, TD5 etc do have some or much better insulation compared to a couple of patches of waste cotton and a bit of carpet on the floor.

personally, after having owned both Isuzu and a 300tdi there is very little difference noise wise. drivability with the Isuzu is way ahead of the 300 tdi. Large sand dunes are a problem for an Isuzu but that’s all.
The only shake noise problem I would say is idle when cold, there seems to be no high idle for a cold motor. The way the motor can shake about can be alarming, but this is easily fixed by turning up the idle or fitting a manual throttle, which is a good move.

[justinc]

I've posted this before somewhere too, but honestly at 100km/h with the same BFG mudders I was running with the V8, there is very little extra noise now with the 4BD1. Of course the gearing is a little higher but still, I am not at all unhappy with the changeover in all aspects.

Turbo and 15psi boost helps in soft sand...:twisted:


JC

[TimNZ]

<snip>
because....

My engines important bits are made from metal and not plastic, little things, like the oil filter.



And the inlet manifold :eek:

(Yes, I'm aware I'm posting from the wrong side of the fence :) )

[DeeJay]

I've posted this before somewhere too, but honestly at 100km/h with the same BFG mudders I was running with the V8, there is very little extra noise now with the 4BD1. Of course the gearing is a little higher but still, I am not at all unhappy with the changeover in all aspects.

Turbo and 15psi boost helps in soft sand...:twisted:


JC


I bought myself one of these a few months ago

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/573.jpg

I started to do all sorts of tests, wrote them down & promptly lost the note.
One stastic I do recall is that the Isuzu @ 100klm/hr was as noisy/ quiet? as my commodore with the radio at a level I need to hear OK.
The other was the Isuzu was noisier at Idle than 80klm/hr.
I might take it to the Vic AULRO show & shine next weekend & con some into going for a drive in thier Landies, as my Isuzu has sound insulation.

[Blknight.aus]

where puma owners are starting to ask if their landy will be around in 15-20 years time. series and suzi owners are asking if theirs will be round in another 15-20 years time.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Isuzu owners wonder whether their vehicle will still be driving after said owner has departed life. Rijidij proves this it is a distinct possibility:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/109410-patrol-vs-isuzu-county-twist.html

[Rangier Rover]

On the noise topic, I have an 89 model and seems much quiter than the ealier 4BD1's. Even quieter than a 300 tdi. What are the differences? If you dont belive me ask rovercare, he has driven it.

[abaddonxi]

On the noise topic, I have an 89 model and seems much quiter than the ealier 4BD1's. Even quieter than a 300 tdi. What are the differences? If you dont belive me ask rovercare, he has driven it.

Yep, same with my '88, and significantly more quiet than my '85 was.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/87420-isuzu-4bd1-vs-300tdi-sound-check.html

[Dougal]

On the noise topic, I have an 89 model and seems much quiter than the ealier 4BD1's. Even quieter than a 300 tdi. What are the differences? If you dont belive me ask rovercare, he has driven it.

There was talk around that time of Isuzu having "close clearance" diesels. It sounds like they better fitted their liners to pistons than others at the time.
Obviously the truck engines got this sooner than the industrial engines.

The quietest my Isuzu has ever been was when it was rebuilt with cast liners which were bored to each piston. Unfortunately it had an air-cleaner element which didn't fit so that rebuild didn't last.

[sclarke]

Is my Auto V8 County better than a new puma???

Mmmmm 30l/100km

Mmmmm Noisy

Mmmmm worn out

Mmmmm smelly

Mmmmm ugly

Mmmmm Mmmmmm Mmmmmmmmmm

Yep........ Ha Ha Ha Ha.... As if it is....

[Blknight.aus]

because doubling the power out put of the county diesel takes about 2 minutes with nothing more than a pair of side cutters, a 10mm open ender and a small screwdriver.

[c.h.i.e.f]

County=funner,easier to work on, sounds better,goes better by alot :D and take the bonnet off the puma and put it on the county and then it looks just as good if not better in my opinion though....

[Blknight.aus]

cause my engine FITS in the engine bay and doesnt need a "power bulge" I have somewhere else I can set the coffee cup/map/spare tyre/tools/laptop/stubbie. I'm also less likely to care about the fact that it might scratch the paintwork doing so.

(as I dont have power this and assisted that and electrical other as the driver I'm also less likey to have a "power bulge")

[c.h.i.e.f]

Hahahahahaha big fan !

[c.h.i.e.f]

They also say that these modern day engines are built to take different grades of fuels but I don't think they understand what punishment a isuzu can take! Put it this way go and ask most people what they think if you said I am 1. going to turbo a diesel that has 400k on the clock at least (run in as you would say blknight) and 2.run well over 15psi maybe even 30psi or higher and they will tell you your dumb, crazzy , stupid, insane, have no idea etc etc but little do they know these motors will not only prove them wrong but the isuzu will love it :D

[dullbird]

They also say that these modern day engines are built to take different grades of fuels but I don't think they understand what punishment a isuzu can take! Put it this way go and ask most people what they think if you said I am 1. going to turbo a diesel that has 400k on the clock at least (run in as you would say blknight) and 2.run well over 15psi maybe even 30psi or higher and they will tell you your dumb, crazzy , stupid, insane, have no idea etc etc but little do they know these motors will not only prove them wrong but the isuzu will love it :D


Hahahahahaha Oh my Chief how you have changed

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/85191-lets-put-end-myth.html#post1037211

:p;):D

[Blknight.aus]

because even after 20 years.....

Im still finding ways that it was made better than the new stuff they havent even put together yet.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Correct you are dullbird :D I find that there is some very helpful and extremely knowledgable people on this site and in particular on the isuzu section...in the past I have been ill informed and now with help and research I now know more about certain things related to mechanics and diesel engines (nothing compared to some on here)....also having had a stage1 v8,200tdi,300tdi and a puma I can say that a isuzu powered county does go better than all of them even after the 300tdi being tuned and going great for a 300tdi the isuzu doesn't rev as hard obviously but it doesn't know what a hill is :twisted: but the puma sure does :( one bad/good thing about the old county is when people (non landiers) slag off saying its an old diesel and then you pass them with ease whilst there in there common rail crap :D

[rar110]

I took Nuehue's Puma 130 for a beach drive a couple of weeks ago. While I was happy to jump back into the turbo Isuzu I found the motor went quite well especially considering it's 2/3 the size. I know the Isuzu will probably last longer and cope better with water/dust with no electrics, but the Puma motor/interior makes a defender more of an everyday driver while maintaining great off road ability.

[c.h.i.e.f]

True....i must say they do go good for a tiny engine and could still be improved alot more but yes not to bad! I find the gear ratios a bit annoying but there's always a wingger :angel: they are more of a everyday driver as you said but after not driving my county for a few months I can't wait to hop in its just funner to drive :) I don't think the puma is going to be around as long as the countys due to stupid engineering like always great ideas by landrover but do not go beyond a idea;) mainly concerned about the driveline ie:the noises and failures mine is currently on its 3rd rear diff and its also rat s@#t :( and its not due to offroading because I don't have time to take it offroad :o my own opinion on why the diffs are having problems is I put it down to when landrover put the diff in the rear (before anyone says "they had them diffs in the rear of other landrovers before" I must add the next part of my theory) that is the introduction of traction control + the smaller diff...
I believe this is creating a slight strain on components just enough to cause problems with pinion missalignment...only if they were as strong as nissan drivelines :)
Noises come free with isuzu countys and usually means its happy

[1103.9TDI]

Puma at my local wrecker looked to be in perfect nick, bar a bit of dust, but had a Stat Writeoff Sticker on the windscreen. I made the usual enquiry....somewhere up near Coen, it appears the original owner went for a little paddle, only ankle deep, but unfortunately drowned the brain. Expect premiums to rise significantly on these vehicles, if used offroad.

:eek::o:wasntme:


........ankle deep as in when sitting at the wheel.

[Blknight.aus]

because no-on really notices a rattle in a county, its expected but when a puma does it lots of people like to pass comment like "its ok, its just trying to immitate its bigger brother"

[clean32]

They also say that these modern day engines are built to take different grades of fuels but I don't think they understand what punishment a isuzu can take! Put it this way go and ask most people what they think if you said I am 1. going to turbo a diesel that has 400k on the clock at least (run in as you would say blknight) and 2.run well over 15psi maybe even 30psi or higher and they will tell you your dumb, crazzy , stupid, insane, have no idea etc etc but little do they know these motors will not only prove them wrong but the isuzu will love it :D

oil change
drain the sump, then tip it in the fuel tank.

i bet you cant do that in a puma, well not for long LOL

[c.h.i.e.f]

Hahaha exactally! Which also highlights the isuzu has quite a good oil system with a filter that is huge where if you compare it to a puma one the isuzu is rediculously bigger...i often wonder if the stupid little filter on the puma is big enough :eek: puma is also more expensive to service (filter=$23-$30,oil I use is castrol fully synthetic 5w-30 but you need 2 5L bottles because it takes 7.3L and that's at around $60 a bottle) not to mention the buggerising around to change a fuel filter successfully :( as you would know the isuzu is basic compared...

[LR D4]

You guys crack me up with you're mine is better than yours, stories... Hilarious..:Rolling::Rolling:

One thing I have learnt in my short life is that good people and products don't need to be talked up.

[land864]

But they just are LR09WA:)

It can't be explained:wasntme:

[c.h.i.e.f]

this is true but it also takes a good bunch off people to point out the bad parts of there own favourite brand of car! it basically comes down to "they dont make landrovers as good as they used to"

[Bush65]

You guys crack me up with you're mine is better than yours, stories... Hilarious..:Rolling::Rolling:

One thing I have learnt in my short life is that good people and products don't need to be talked up.
This thread was started by dullbird expressly for amusement (getting bites from owners of the superior Land Rover).

[Blknight.aus]

county, named for the definition of an area of land.

Puma, named after a company thats mainly known for track running shoes.

surprisingly accurate for the places that the vehicles usually wind up.

[tangus89]

Patrol vs Isuzu County - YouTube


i want one

BADLY

[Blknight.aus]

in a county a 100K Km mark is nothing to be excited about, its just another service interval.

[LR D4]

in a county a 100K Km mark is nothing to be excited about, its just another service interval.Dave your so wasted on this forum, maybe you should jump on the toyota forum and tell them how good your county is... your kinda telling us how to suck eggs on a Land Rover forum...:wasntme::wasntme:

[abaddonxi]

Not sure if this is indicative of Puma owners, but had a complete stranger come out of an SVX 110 (7 seater) and knock on the door wanting to know how I found the VW Caravelle because she was thinking of turning in the SVX for one.

And County envy doesn't come into play this time, it's still parked in the back yard.

And she'd only ever driven Land Rovers.

[County3.9]

because doubling the power out put of the county diesel takes about 2 minutes with nothing more than a pair of side cutters, a 10mm open ender and a small screwdriver.

Its true, he can:D

[Svengali0]

ill see if i can get a way of you's to get in touch with him because he is very interesed to see the figures about the 4bd1T's that everyone has :cool:

Get a grip :mad:
nearly every commonrail diesel will leave a normally aspirated diesel for dead but WHAT IS THE POINT? My car has nearly 600k on the clock. It does what its supposed to do and doesn't ask for too much fuel while doing it. It's bulletproof and simple just the way I like it. This! is the point for me not some damn contest up bloody hills or traffic lights.
Why don't you think about a contest at the petrol bowser combined with service length for a try? Most of these wanked up mods make a real mess of the one set of figures that really count (fuel economy through service life).
Get a grip, silly fellow. Perhaps visit some other forums where the values you appear to promote are valued more than here.

[Dougal]

Get a grip :mad:
nearly every commonrail diesel will leave a normally aspirated diesel for dead but WHAT IS THE POINT? My car has nearly 600k on the clock. It does what its supposed to do and doesn't ask for too much fuel while doing it. It's bulletproof and simple just the way I like it. This! is the point for me not some damn contest up bloody hills or traffic lights.
Why don't you think about a contest at the petrol bowser combined with service length for a try? Most of these wanked up mods make a real mess of the one set of figures that really count (fuel economy through service life).
Get a grip, silly fellow. Perhaps visit some other forums where the values you appear to promote are valued more than here.

In 100kw/330Nm tune the 4BD1T's do 500,000km between rebuilds in trucks grossing 8 ton.
Turbocharged they can use less fuel than non-turbocharged and service life isn't otherwise affected. A 4BD1T tweaked (bigger turbo, open the fuel screw a little) to the easy 200hp/550Nm mark will not have a significantly shorter service life.

This is one of those rare engines with a massive safety margin in all areas. Feel free to use it. I am.