e-Bay Scam ?

[DeanoH]

Mate of mine came round the other night and asked me to scan some documents for him so he could e-mail them in regard to a car he had just sold on e-bay. No problem. All done and saved to his USB key for later attaching to e-mail.
My mate came around again last night for more of the same, apologised for the hassle, which it wasn't, and explained that the first payment was incorrect and that he'd paid the balance and needed the recipt copy to e-mail to PayPal to get refunded.
WTF said I, how much in all? $3000 said my mate but it's OK, it's all gauranteed by Pay Pal.
The story is this.
Car sold on e-bay, buyer is on research ship, needs car sent to Darwin, mate to pay upfront, ultimately all paid for by byer. Seller to send transport costs via Western Union to account in England, copy and send payment details to PayPal for refund.
At this stage alarm bells and red flashing lights are going off big time. Why doesn't buyer pay for transport with his own credit card ?, says me. Doesn't have one aboard and too hard when at sea, says mate. At this stage I've got sky rockets going off and nuclear explosions in the background.
I explain to my mate that this sounds like a scam to me. Mate says, never done this before thought it worked this way.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong and that I've got a nasty untrusting nature and that my mate hasn't just been been robbed. I would really like to be proven wrong here, but fear I won't be.:(

Deano

[MacMan]

Walks and quacks like a duck...

SCAM.

[MarknDeb]

As soon as Western Union is mentioned alarm bell would be ringing for me, even eBay advises aginst WU payments

[Psimpson7]

scam

[disco97]

1000% scam

[p38arover]

Your mate has been scammed.

Here's the text my sister got when trying to sell hers last week. A search on the net found more than one instance of the same story - almost word for word. When my sister asked me, I said it sounded like a scam. It was.

Was he offered more than he asked for?


Hi thanks for mailing back,i am an oceanographer, i am at sea right now,i am buying this for my son as a surprise gift and I am glad you accepted my offer.I can only pay through paypal at the moment as i don't have access to my bank account online(i don't have internet banking with it),but i have it attached to my paypal account, and this is why i insisted on using paypal to pay,all i will need is your paypal email address to make the payments,and if you don't have a paypal account yet,its pretty easy to set one up at www.paypal.com.au,i will be expecting your email.I have a pick up agent that will come for the pick up after payments has been sorted.

Best Regards

[p38arover]

Here's another off the 'net:



Thanks for the prompt response.. I am ready to buy the horse now for
birthday gift for brother in-law and i am at sea at the moment as i am
a marine engineer and due to the nature of my work, phone calls making
and visiting of website are restricted but i squeezed out time to
check this advert and send you an email regarding the horse. I really
want it to be a surprise for my brother in-law so i wont let him know
anything about the horse until it gets delivered to him, i am sure he
will be more than happy with the horse. I insisted on paypal because i
don't have access to my bank account online as i don't have internet
banking, but i can pay from my paypal account, as i have my bank a/c
attached to it, i will need you to give me your paypal email address
and the price so i can make the payments asap for the horse and pls if
you don't have paypal account yet, it is very easy to set up, go to
Welcome - PayPal (http://www.paypal.com.au) and get it set up, after you have set it up i will
only need the e-mail address you use for registration with paypal so
as to put the money through. I have a pick up agent that will come and
pick it up after i have made the payments..



Google: oceanographer scam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

As soon as Western Union is mentioned alarm bell would be ringing for me, even eBay advises aginst WU payments:spamsign: Your mate should be reporting the event to the Police immediately :coplight: and contacting the transport company not to deliver the vehicle in Darwin or where ever, until everything is sorted and funds back in his bank.


Diana

[p38arover]

Has the car been shipped?

How do people fall for these things? :(

[Psimpson7]

The car wont be collected. The scam surely is that the payment for shipping is to the scammer. They dont care about the car/boat/goat you are selling.

The original paypal payment / cheque / bank draft will bounce. You are then out the cost of the shipping as the original fraudulent payment is taken back from your account.

[loanrangie]

The car wont be collected. The scam surely is that the payment for shipping is to the scammer. They dont care about the car/boat/goat you are selling.

The original paypal payment / cheque / bank draft will bounce. You are then out the cost of the shipping as the original fraudulent payment is taken back from your account.

Exactly, we had the same joker enquire about a car my dad was selling, same story he's on a ship or in the navy blah blah, they bid, win and then the catch is they wont release funds untill western union transfer is made for collection fee- as soon as i read the western union BS that set the bells off for me, luckily i was doing the communication on behalf of my Dad otherwise he'd be worse off right now :twisted:.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Too right it won't be collected.

Your mate would have been better off if he'd dug a big hole in the back yard and buried the car rather than being scammed like this.

As always, don't part with your goods until the money is in your account.

In regard to any additional funds, say that you'll hold it until the whomever can arrange the shipping themself or they pay with paypal.

If the vehicle hasn't been delivered and the full price of purchase and shipping hasn't been paid then your mate probably still has ownership. Talk to a lawyer or the police he may be able to claim the original paypal funds as compensation for the WU transfer and still re-sell the car.

[disco2hse]

Money laundering scam. Plenty around with various options.

[Xtreme]

Also happens on www.carsales.com (http://www.carsales.com) - same warning signs should be looked out for.

[PhilipA]

They tried it on me a couple of weeks ago when I was selling my BMW.
One from China and one from the "person at sea".

They were so amateurish they were laughable. The seaman spelled his name FIZTSIMMONS or something.

Nigerians are probably not so good at spelling.

But how could your mate get caught? Does he live under a rock?
Tell him you have a great bridge to sell him.

These nuisance type things seem to be getting bigger and bigger on Ebay and the one from China was obviously automated and would have gone to every listing.
Regards Philip A

[RobHay]

Yep..it is a scam....advise Ebay and PayPal immediately. Also Police.

Take urgent action to secure your vehicle.

[banjo]

Same thing happened to us we sold a protable DVD player & we got a western union pay slip thing so we sent it of ,then the hassels started ,never seen a sent..

[DeanoH]

But how could your mate get caught? Does he live under a rock?


Thanks everyone for your input, I was 99.999% sure he'd been scammed, but needed the other .001%.
I advised him last night to contact the Feds.

My mate is a decent, hard working bloke. Honest as the day is long and just not used to dealing with ****s. He's not dumb, just naive to the ways of these scammers. He gives, or used to give, people respect and treat them as he would expect to be treated in return.
Welcome to the real world.

Thanks again for everyones input. I'm about to ring my mate and not looking forward to it.:(

Deano

[Gumnut]

Hi,

Everything is not always so terrible.

I was indeed "at sea" when I purchased my last LR. Thank goodness for the marvel of modern telephony and telecommunications!!

I would hate to think that I was disqualified from any particular purchasae by virtue of occupation.

[p38arover]

Thanks again for everyones input. I'm about to ring my mate and not looking forward to it.:(

Deano

Keep us informed as to the results.

[p38arover]

Hi,

Everything is not always so terrible.

I was indeed "at sea" when I purchased my last LR. Thank goodness for the marvel of modern telephony and telecommunications!!

I would hate to think that I was disqualified from any particular purchasae by virtue of occupation.

The difference is that the scammer claims (despite having internet access) that he can't do on-line banking, etc. so wants the seller to cough up in advance.

[banjo]

Thanks everyone for your input, I was 99.999% sure he'd been scammed, but needed the other .001%.
I advised him last night to contact the Feds.

My mate is a decent, hard working bloke. Honest as the day is long and just not used to dealing with ****s. He's not dumb, just naive to the ways of these scammers. He gives, or used to give, people respect and treat them as he would expect to be treated in return.
Welcome to the real world.

Thanks again for everyones input. I'm about to ring my mate and not looking forward to it.:(

Deano

Hey deano how did you get on telling your mate the shock wasnt to much..???

[DeanoH]

The difference is that the scammer claims (despite having internet access) that he can't do on-line banking, etc. so wants the seller to cough up in advance.

Right on the money Ron. This was the clincher for me too. The guy claims to be on a research vessel, presumably intelligent/educated/worldly, has access to satellite internet and telephone but can't access/manage his own accounts? I don't think so.
Advised my mate of the above but I still think he hopes that all might be OK. I think he knows but is just unable to wrap his head around it yet. I also advised him to follow that link 'oceanographer scam', thanks.
Anyway I've fair put the wind up him and there's no way the car is going anywhere untill he has ALL moneys cleared.
I'm having a beer with him tonight so should have more later.
Thanks again all for your input. I'd love you to be right Gumnut but I don't think it will happen.

Deano:)

[p38arover]

Has he paid any money out or transferred any funds?

[DeanoH]

Yes. $3000 in two hits via Western Union to an account in the UK. Mate contacted PayPal after I originally told him I reckoned it was a scam and says PayPal told him he'd get his money. Doesn't sound right which is one thing I'll be talking about tonight. I don't think he fuilly understands what Paypal does, which is what the scammers rely on I guess.

Deano:)

[Scouse]

I wish your mate all the best with getting his money back but I wouldn't count on it though :(.



I have a similar mate who opens up & goes through the 'Bank/PayPal account verification' emails.
Well, he used to.

[Basil135]

I love to play with these scammers.

A quick search & you will find the same story a dozen times on the net, with usually only a few tweaks to them.

I usually like to string them along for a while, and promise them the payments etc. Even gone to the extent of sending them a copy of the Western Union receipt... Guess they cant Google from their ship, igloo, ice flow, space ship or wherever they are at the time...:nazilock:

I even have a special email account set up just for this type of thing. :angel:

The worst part is the heartache they cause for legit people. My daughter was advertising a new business, and was approached by someone. Something didn't look right to me in their email, so I Googled the phone number they supplied. BINGO The same phone number was used in about 20 other emails that came up, all basically saying the same thing, with only the major points changed. :mad:

She was heart-broken, as she thought she had found her first big break. Once she calmed down a bit, then she got mad... :twisted::twisted:

[Ace]

had a woman come into work and report a different one, there isnt much that Police can do, Fed's might be able to but i doubt it. These people just fade into the darkness when they think they have been found out.

The woman had been talking to people on the net, now this scam was put into place over 12 months. The first person she was talking to reportedly takes a turn for the worse and then the second person steps in and tells the victim that over the time the first person was talking to her on the net that she really liked her. Second person comes back a few weeks later and tells the victim that the first person has died and left a large sum of money to the victim. All the vitcim needs to do is transfer $1500 via western union for legal fees and all of her details so that they can transfer the inheritance. Very cunning scheme but she thought it was suss when they kept dropping the price when she told them she couldnt afford the $1500. The guy comes back and says he has spoken to his company directors and they will take $1000, still cant afford it so it drops to $800 and so on.

I had a guy contact me via my website saying he wanted to buy this and that, in total it came to $10000 or there abouts, then he said he would pay via credit card. I use paymate, a secure credit card processing site, sort of like paypal but the other person doesnt need to be a member and they can use their visa card. I got suss from the start but went along on the off chance he was genuine and he wasnt asking me for money, and i wasnt sending the products until i had the cash.

But i rang Paymate to ask how it would work with a large transaction like this, they said it would be fine but because of the large sum they would do extra checks, so i told him this to see how he responded. You can all guess what happened next, I never heard from him again. I guess that he was using stolen credit cards or something to that effect.

But they are all out there and with the increases in technology etc new forms of criminals pop up everyday.

[brenno]

Yes. $3000 in two hits via Western Union to an account in the UK. Mate contacted PayPal after I originally told him I reckoned it was a scam and says PayPal told him he'd get his money. Doesn't sound right which is one thing I'll be talking about tonight. I don't think he fuilly understands what Paypal does, which is what the scammers rely on I guess.

Deano:)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but paypal won't cover his money that's been paid to Western Union. On second reading, it seems that you already know that.

Break it to him gently.

I was myself scammed for $3000 odd dollars a while ago. Realised within 36 hours, and notified bank, police, ebay, etc. I didn't see a cent of it returned. The bank couldn't have given a flying **** what happened, and didn't assist in any way even though the account I transferred into was with the same bank and the account was Australia based. The police said they did all they could, but nothing ever came of it. And ebay, well they can stick their site up their arse, as they are the worst of the lot.

Needless to say, I changed banks, and I'm now very, very sus on everything.

[disco2hse]

The woman had been talking to people on the net, now this scam was put into place over 12 months. The first person she was talking to reportedly takes a turn for the worse and then the second person steps in and tells the victim that over the time the first person was talking to her on the net that she really liked her. Second person comes back a few weeks later and tells the victim that the first person has died and left a large sum of money to the victim. All the vitcim needs to do is transfer $1500 via western union for legal fees and all of her details so that they can transfer the inheritance. Very cunning scheme but she thought it was suss when they kept dropping the price when she told them she couldnt afford the $1500. The guy comes back and says he has spoken to his company directors and they will take $1000, still cant afford it so it drops to $800 and so on.

Variation on the Nigerian scam.


I had a guy contact me via my website saying he wanted to buy this and that, in total it came to $10000 or there abouts, then he said he would pay via credit card. I use paymate, a secure credit card processing site, sort of like paypal but the other person doesnt need to be a member and they can use their visa card. I got suss from the start but went along on the off chance he was genuine and he wasnt asking me for money, and i wasnt sending the products until i had the cash.

But i rang Paymate to ask how it would work with a large transaction like this, they said it would be fine but because of the large sum they would do extra checks, so i told him this to see how he responded. You can all guess what happened next, I never heard from him again. I guess that he was using stolen credit cards or something to that effect.

Money laundering. They buy large amounts of product and sell it on eBay, etc. cheap. Doesn't matter that they might lose money on it since most of it is the proceeds from drug sales anyway.

[disco2hse]

I was myself scammed for $3000 odd dollars a while ago. Realised within 36 hours, and notified bank, police, ebay, etc. I didn't see a cent of it returned. The bank couldn't have given a flying **** what happened, and didn't assist in any way even though the account I transferred into was with the same bank and the account was Australia based. The police said they did all they could, but nothing ever came of it. And ebay, well they can stick their site up their arse, as they are the worst of the lot.

Needless to say, I changed banks, and I'm now very, very sus on everything.

Don't be too hard on the banks. They are not police agents and cannot be held responsible for peoples' decisions to give their money away. The same goes for auction sites, they provide warnings but you cannot stop someone from ignoring those and putting themselves at risk.

Alan

[Sth65pacific]

My VERY Strong advice is NEVER EVER use western money orders. It has been proven time & time again that they are an easy way for scammers to rip you off. Another scam is: They overpay you (so they say) and demand a refund, which you pay & you lose that 'difference'.

Open a PayPal account. It covers you. Or insist on CASH, Direct Debit (via bank deposit) or BANK CHEQUE. You can use PayPal to bill people too even if they don't buy off eBay. I use this method to bill people who want parts, rather than advertising them.

I do a fair bit of trading on eBay, & whenever its only Western Money. I don't bother.

In this day & age electronic funds transfer is the SAFEST method. EFT(POS) is used widely across Australia. The retailers get your money within a few seconds. That is why its good and SAFE!

If someone is Direct debiting:(i.e. bank transfer)
You just have to wait until the transfer is in you account. I have had one unscrupulous person tell me monies were transferred ($900) BUT they were not! I said to him:
"As soon as they (funds) are in my account you can come get the goods, NOT until then...."

He insisted he had transferred, but surprise!:eek: No money ever appeared.
After 7 days I contacted him, to which he said he was not going through with the deal. Some words were exchanged but we wont go there.

Bottom line: BE ASTUTE, and, Its not your money until its IN YOUR ACCOUNT!

Ian



Don't be too hard on the banks. They are not police agents and cannot be held responsible for peoples' decisions to give their money away. The same goes for auction sites, they provide warnings but you cannot stop someone from ignoring those and putting themselves at risk.

Alan

[brenno]

Don't be too hard on the banks. They are not police agents and cannot be held responsible for peoples' decisions to give their money away.

Please... They did nothing to stop the payment, did nothing to assist in recovery, etc, etc. Yes I made the payment, but they have a responsibility to assist in protecting people from scams. Sure, they can't protect people from themselves, but I'm not a dumb ****, and did all I could prior to paying to verify that I was not being scammed. It's a shame that I didn't get any form of support following the payment.


The same goes for auction sites, they provide warnings but you cannot stop someone from ignoring those and putting themselves at risk.

AlanDon't get me started on friggin fleabay. I emailed, and had a live chat session with them PRIOR to me paying for the goods I purchased, expressing my skepticism over the listing and ebay user. It wasn't a typical scam listing, but I just had an ever so slight doubt. I was told that the listing was genuine, and that the account had not been hijacked, etc.

Guess what happened when I made payment?? They informed me it was indeed a hijacked account, and that I should inform the authorities (which I had already done a day earlier than I received their email).

[disco2hse]

...but they have a responsibility to assist in protecting people from scams.

No they don't. They look after your money, for a fee. They do not look after you. There is a difference.

They have certain statutory obligations to assist law enforcement agencies and recently they have adopted a moral stance in which they will refund people who have been had whilst using their credit cards. In the case of unauthorised card transaction they shift the liability onto the merchant to make the refund, which is part of the merchant's contract with the bank.

Alan

[brenno]

No they don't. They look after your money, for a fee. They do not look after you. There is a difference.

They have certain statutory obligations to assist law enforcement agencies and recently they have adopted a moral stance in which they will refund people who have been had whilst using their credit cards. In the case of unauthorised card transaction they shift the liability onto the merchant to make the refund, which is part of the merchant's contract with the bank.

Alan

You don't work for a bank by any chance, do you??

Regardless of the terminology, they didn't assist in looking after my money.

A bank adopting a moral stance??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I just saw a pig fly past my window, and just heard that snow was falling in hell.

[sashadidi]

Be careful of a bank cheque even, they can be "washed", they get a bank cheque (genuine ) using false Id and then "wash" it and type in a big amount, still looks the part, you bank it send refund etc etcthe bank will pull it even after 4 weeks espically if a foriegn bank cheque
Even T/t is not safe for 24 to 48 hours bank still has right to pull it, you hear a lot of this in Russia all the time

My VERY Strong advice is NEVER EVER use western money orders. It has been proven time & time again that they are an easy way for scammers to rip you off. Another scam is: They overpay you (so they say) and demand a refund, which you pay & you lose that 'difference'.

Open a PayPal account. It covers you. Or insist on CASH, Direct Debit (via bank deposit) or BANK CHEQUE. You can use PayPal to bill people too even if they don't buy off eBay. I use this method to bill people who want parts, rather than advertising them.

I do a fair bit of trading on eBay, & whenever its only Western Money. I don't bother.

In this day & age electronic funds transfer is the SAFEST method. EFT(POS) is used widely across Australia. The retailers get your money within a few seconds. That is why its good and SAFE!

If someone is Direct debiting:(i.e. bank transfer)
You just have to wait until the transfer is in you account. I have had one unscrupulous person tell me monies were transferred ($900) BUT they were not! I said to him:
"As soon as they (funds) are in my account you can come get the goods, NOT until then...."

He insisted he had transferred, but surprise!:eek: No money ever appeared.
After 7 days I contacted him, to which he said he was not going through with the deal. Some words were exchanged but we wont go there.

Bottom line: BE ASTUTE, and, Its not your money until its IN YOUR ACCOUNT!

Ian

[Ace]

Variation on the Nigerian scam.



Money laundering. They buy large amounts of product and sell it on eBay, etc. cheap. Doesn't matter that they might lose money on it since most of it is the proceeds from drug sales anyway.


Yeah, they do it all kinds of ways. Eitherway its not hard to suss out when its dodgy.

[DiscoMick]

I've deleted and blocked this ebay scam several times. There's also a PayPal one.

[3toes]

Don't forget that these scams also are targeted at people wanting to buy something. They will tempt you in with a too good to be true price on typically a larger ticket item. Have seen some of these on cars where they have done a cut and past on someones real add so the text is in better english. Once tempted in and you send the funds you will never see the goods as they were never theirs to sell. Who knows how many people will send them the funds off the one add so a good add has the potential to be very profitable. Even scammers have to make a profit margin over their costs.

If you have some spare time and want a laugh there are sites run by people who attempt to waste the time of scammers. This is one http://www.419eater.com/index.php

[disco2hse]

You don't work for a bank by any chance, do you??

Regardless of the terminology, they didn't assist in looking after my money.

A bank adopting a moral stance??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I just saw a pig fly past my window, and just heard that snow was falling in hell.

Of course not. Never have and never will. I despise them with a vengeance, but that is also why I have learned about what is my responsibility and what is theirs.

About the moral stance thing, you do realise that banks take moral stances on a large number of issues don't you. Take for example the huge amount of money they give to local organisations and community service groups that would not exist if it were not for them.

But this is off topic and I don't want to proceed with this discussion.

[brenno]

But this is off topic and I don't want to proceed with this discussion.

Fair enough, I understand that this is a discussion best held in another thread.

To the OP, what's happened?? Did you have a chance to talk to your mate??

[adm333]

Assuming they themselves are real, those scam baiting stories are quite hilarious. It's cold comfort I know, but its nice to think they do get a bit of their own back from time to time.

Here's an excerpt statement reply used by one of the scam baiters which is a doozy....

Yes, it is true that I have 2 million dollars in my personal account, however you do not seem to understand about business enough to realise why I cannot give you any of it. The money is stored in a seantic phospheral dimontic accrued divisionary high-yeilding business current account. Whatever that is! This account rewards me with much higher interest rates then a standard account which is of course a great benefit. The downside is that to withdraw money from that account I have to give the bank 90 days notice. I suspect that you are not in a position to wait 90 days and this is why I refused your request. Now, if you ARE indeed prepared to wait that long then yes, I can give you the money.

Also if you have time read the skeleton coast story.

[disco2hse]

Interesting story and stats:

Puppies and Swayze snare $70m in online Aussie scams - World - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10629272)

[DeanoH]

Sorry for the delay in replying, been off the air for a few days.

My mate has come to the realisation that his $3000 is gone forever, but is happy that he still has his car. He's still a bit bewildered by the whole thing and is trying to wrap his head around it. Strangely the bit I've had to impress on him is that when you sell something the other party pays you, not the other way round. I would have thought this self evident but obviously not. He's actually an astute and hard nosed businessman which has me quite amazed that he got conned this way.
He'll probably advise eBay and PayPal but the chance of him going to the coppers is nil. So I gues, in the long run, the scammers win again.

Deano:)

[FenianEel]

This sucks, but I still can't believe people fall for it.
Not in your mates case, but quite often it comes down to greed & stupidity of the person getting scammed.
Occasionally it is naivety.

I once had a "U.S.Collector" offer me $10k for a P76 I was selling for $5k, I just needed to give my bank details and forward $ for initial shipping registration etc.etc.etc.


Strangely the bit I've had to impress on him is that when you sell something the other party pays you, not the other way round. I would have thought this self evident but obviously not.

Has he got any stuff he'd like to sell me then? :twisted:

[vnx205]

.. ... ... ... ... ..

These nuisance type things seem to be getting bigger and bigger on Ebay and the one from China was obviously automated and would have gone to every listing.
Regards Philip A

I guessed the one I received when I was selling the Series III three years ago was automated. So the scam is certainly not new, but maybe getting more sophisticated.

It started, "My name is Elizabeth and I would like to buy your car." No-one who was serious about buying a LWB Series III would call it a car, surely. It then went on to ask a couple of questions that had been clearly answered in the original ad.

Because I wanted to know a bit about how these scams worked, I replied, saying that all the details were in the ad. The response came back that "Elizabeth" was happy with the condition of the "car" and the rest of the details were the same as others have described.