Anyone used Gel batteries?

[PAT303]

I bought a Gel deep cycle battery in 07 and the thing won't take charge,I had it on the charger all night and it went from 9V to 10V and thats it.Is the overpriced POS stuffed or can I save it.Thanks Pat

[XSiV]

I have a lifeline gel battery as my dual battery in the 130 and never had a problem with it. There was a time that it ran real low due to a dodgy 3rd batter I had in my camper back. I went to the local battery guy and he said if there was a problem he'd probably be able to fix it. It seems to have charged up nicely and operates just fine at the moment. You might want to take it to a battery place and get them to look at it. Maybe even return it to the place you bought it from, get them to replace it.

[bee utey]

Gel batteries notoriously hate both frequent overcharging and running them dead flat. You can kill one inside a week quite easily. Having a volt meter on the battery (with a switch is necessary) lets you see dangerous charge levels easily. Looked after they can last 10 years or more. Most gel batteries have specs on the side, they should be strictly observed.

[101RRS]

It seems these batteries are just too much hassle - you cant do this, cant to that - need this charger - need this piece of kit.

Given the extra cost over a normal bigl lead acid starter type batteries and the extra hassle (accept you get less out of a normal lead acid) is it really worth getting these.

Garry

[PAT303]

It seems these batteries are just too much hassle - you cant do this, cant to that - need this charger - need this piece of kit.

Given the extra cost over a normal bigl lead acid starter type batteries and the extra hassle (accept you get less out of a normal lead acid) is it really worth getting these.

Garry

Totally agree,the reason I bought it was that they didn't have any trouble with getting a memory or any trouble regarding charging,thats what I was told anyway.There's $400 down the drain. Pat

[drivesafe]

Hi Pat and first off, I hope it wasn’t the mob that sold you the battery that told about getting a memory, because no automotive type battery suffers from memory, this is something that NiCad batteries suffer from.

Next there are different forms of gel batteries so can you post up the info on yours.

[PAT303]

Hi Pat and first off, I hope it wasn’t the mob that sold you the battery that told about getting a memory, because no automotive type battery suffers from memory, this is something that NiCad batteries suffer from.

Next there are different forms of gel batteries so can you post up the info on yours.

It's a VRLA N70 GEL,it had 10V this morning and now has only 8.8V.With the engine running it has 12.6V going into it. Pat

[drivesafe]

Hi again Pat, it’s the brand of battery that I’m after.

Yours sounds like a HAZE.

As to the voltage, you say the battery was at 10v and is now at 8.8v.

Even at 10v thats way too low and I’d say your battery is stuffed BUT, I’m not there to check it so don’t do anything till you get it load tested.

You also say with the motor running you get 12.6v at the battery.

That is also too low.

With your motor running, test the voltage at your cranking battery and then at your auxiliary battery.

If your are getting 13.5+ at your cranking battery and still 12.6 at your auxiliary, then I would say you have a problem with your wiring and this could account for the low auxiliary battery.

[PAT303]

I'm getting 14V flat from the alternator and 13.1-13.2 from the isolator terminals,when I took the charger off last night it was showing 10V but today it has only 8.8V so weather it was a risidual charge that was 10 I don't know.The wiring is all brand new,replaced it not long ago and the local auto sparky doesn't have much time for GEL batteries but will try and charge it for me,if worst comes to worst for the money if it needs replacing I'm going to get a CAT calcium battery from westrac,$140 for a 750CCA.I can buy three of them for the cost of the GEL. Pat

[drivesafe]

Hi Pat, how long is the cable run between your cranking battery and your isolator, because that is way to much of a voltage drop.

[Blknight.aus]

you might be able to save it, it sounds to me as though its not taking a charge and has upped its internal resistance due to sulphation from low charging.

Ive managed to rejuvinate a couple of the smaller gel cell type batteries that you get in UPS's but not totally they usually only came back to about 75% of their capacity and it wasnt worth doing due to the low cost of the smaller batteries.

IMHO gel cells are great in the intended role they were designed for but the tech is just a couple of stages away from where I'd like to to be for general automotive use.

Spiral wound AGM SLAB type batteries appear to be where the biggest bang for buck seems to be with the traditional flooded cell style with spaced flat plates offering about the best return on a budget.

[PAT303]

Hi Pat, how long is the cable run between your cranking battery and your isolator, because that is way to much of a voltage drop.

I've had the same isolator in the the same spot for 12 years,only the wires were replaced.I originally had an odyssey battery that gave 8 years service then I changed to the GEL and re-wired the system and just made it neater.I ran my fridge overnight and flatterned the battery and it has been flat since.The wire size I used was the same size as the original alternator supply wire. Pat

[drivesafe]

I’m only guessing but I’d say your battery is stuffed but I think your wire is a bit on the thin side and thats taking into account that it’s the same size as your alternator wire because it’s only been in the last few years that vehicles have been fitted with decent size alternator to cranking battery cable. Thats’ just a guess.

See if the auto elec can bring your battery back and take it from there.

Also, if you get a chance get a ruler and measure the diameter of the cable including the plastic insulation and post up the size here.

Soon tell you the size of your cable.

[Blknight.aus]

I think I know whats killed your battery.

best you might get out of it from this point in will be 11.something volts.

if you dropped it below about 8V and then dumped a full load of alternator at it (80 amps or more) its boiled the gel and buckled a plate.

[PAT303]

I think I know whats killed your battery.

best you might get out of it from this point in will be 11.something volts.

if you dropped it below about 8V and then dumped a full load of alternator at it (80 amps or more) its boiled the gel and buckled a plate.

So can someone tell me why I paid $400 for a battery that is crap?.I only paid that amount because I wanted the best,instead I got ****. Pat

[PAT303]

I’m only guessing but I’d say your battery is stuffed but I think your wire is a bit on the thin side and thats taking into account that it’s the same size as your alternator wire because it’s only been in the last few years that vehicles have been fitted with decent size alternator to cranking battery cable. Thats’ just a guess.

See if the auto elec can bring your battery back and take it from there.

Also, if you get a chance get a ruler and measure the diameter of the cable including the plastic insulation and post up the size here.

Soon tell you the size of your cable.

It's 6mm multi strand. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

So can someone tell me why I paid $400 for a battery that is crap?.I only paid that amount because I wanted the best,instead I got ****. Pat

best is speculative.

you cant treat a gel battery like an old one...

itd be a bit like me buying a audi 8 diesel and then complaining because it wouldnt run on chip fat.

however, take faith. so far every baked gel battery that Ive diagnosed on the work gear as having a buckled plate or boiled gel has been accepted by the manufacturer or provider as a defect and has replaced it under warranty along with specific instuctions on how they should be looked after, charged and discharged for maximum life.

try it on with your place of purchase that the suspected diagnosis is a plate buckle thats caused a local hot spot which has boiled the gel and can they please hook it up to an appropriately rated charger to see whats what.

[bee utey]

best is speculative.

you cant treat a gel battery like an old one...

itd be a bit like me buying a audi 8 diesel and then complaining because it wouldnt run on chip fat.

however, take faith. so far every baked gel battery that Ive diagnosed on the work gear as having a buckled plate or boiled gel has been accepted by the manufacturer or provider as a defect and has replaced it under warranty along with specific instuctions on how they should be looked after, charged and discharged for maximum life.

try it on with your place of purchase that the suspected diagnosis is a plate buckle thats caused a local hot spot which has boiled the gel and can they please hook it up to an appropriately rated charger to see whats what.
Idle speculation my friend, would the use of a solar panel 20 amp regulator in line with the charge line keep the charging to a sensible voltage? Proper solar regs also have low voltage disconnect on the load. I am sure you can get the design life out of a gel cell by not treating it like a bucket.

[Blknight.aus]

you're on the right track but generically no (there are some solar regulators to which the following caveat doesnt apply and in their case the answer is an unequivical yes)

In most solar regulators the rated Amps indicate the maximum amps the unit can handle IE if you put 40 amps worth of panels onto a 20 amp regulator it would have a short and unhappy life.

The regulator I use at work is a home brew bastardized thing that consists of 4 main parts


a small calcium type flooded wet cell battery its a starting battery and its rated to about 300CCA. (the actual size of the battery isnt important its just acting like a big capacitor to protect the charger at work Consider this battery to be your vehicles primary battery)
A 15 Amp resettable circuit breaker
a 5 amp bi-metallic type self resetting circuit breaker
a 55/60W headlight.


Its wired up so the main charger (your cars alternator) hooks up to the positive terminal of the small battery (your main battery) then the 15Amp circuit breaker followed by the 5 amp self resetting breaker wired in parrallel to the headlight bulb and then that heads to the Positive terminal of the gel battery

The charger at work is a constant voltage, variable amps (out to 200amps) charger much like an alternator in a vehicle. When the battery wants to suck a lot of amps the 5 amp circuit breaker trips out and the only path for the voltage to follow is through the headlight bulb which is acting like a resistor limiting the current flow. The self resetting circuit breaker resets after it cools down, the reset process is slowed by virtue of its proximity to the bulb which heats the breaker. Eventually a point of balance is achieved and about equal flow goes through both the bulb and the 5amp breaker. As the battery voltage rises the flow through the bulb reduces and the 5 amp breaker carries the trickle voltage to top the battery off. The 15 amp manual reset breaker is only there in case the self resetting breaker decides to fuse closed (hasnt happened yet)

Of course its not a very efficient setup there is a lot of waste heat coming off of the bulb but it does an adequate job of charging almost all batteries, I just dial in the required max charging voltage on the charger and leave it go when the bulb is cool to the touch then I know its nearly fully charged. I'm happy to leave them unattended knowing that the maximum average amp flow into a battery thats dead wont be much over 5 amps the maximum charge rate wont be much over 8 or 9 amps and the float charge will generally be less than 5 amps and maximum voltage is limited by the charger.

For charging a battery that's also got a load hooked up to it it would be woefully inefficient especially if the draw of the load exceeded the current rating of the self resetting breaker. And there lies the crux of the design. Make it big enough to handle charging the battery at a reasonable rate (the breaker and the bulb need to be near the same current rating) and drive the load of the battery at the same time and its potentially got enough amps flow to kill the battery if the load is off and the charging supply is at full tilt.

[101RRS]

Well after reading all this stuff I am definitely not getting gel batteries in my 101 - they require more nursing than a new born baby. Big starter batteries seems to be the go and accept I slightly higher shut down voltage and slightly shorter life - or maybe longer life depending on your view.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

actuallllyyyyyy.....

with your dual alternator setup thats just begging for a pair of gel batteries.

2 gel batteries in parallel for your 12V accessories supply (or just one depending on your budget)
120-180W worth of panels on the roof with an isolator/regulator that drops them off when the alternators running
and a 25-30 amp alternator in stead of whatever you have. (or wind back the wattage on the excite winding feed till you max out at whatever the rated max charge amps are on the gels)

if the alternator cant push the amps you cant cook the batteries.


best of all worlds but then you could also use traditional deep cycles to the same effect but you cant do a big draw on them.

Thats the calling card of the gel cel batteries BIg amps out for a little while or a few for a long time. The achillies being the way you have to charge them.

Deep cycle batteries offer the same draw back when it comes to charging you cant just dump a truckload of amps into them and expect a full life but they are more forgiving and usually will give you some warning before they collapse. (they are also about half the price and twice the weight of a gel)

[PAT303]

IMHO I don't see why it should be so hard,as I posted the odyssey I had gave 8 years service and I never looked at it,the GEL stuffed up the first time I ran the fridge on it. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

its not so hard....

you just have to be able too look past the sales spiel and into the facts at hand.

If this was the first time that you had a prolonged load on it then theres also no discounting that yours wasnt just a bad battery waiting for you to discover it was shot.

was your odyssey battery one of the early box case ones (they had a real bad rep to start with with some entertaining casing problems) or the newer ones that look like an oversize 6 can pack with a flat plate and terminals?

[bee utey]

actuallllyyyyyy.....

with your dual alternator setup thats just begging for a pair of gel batteries.

2 gel batteries in parallel for your 12V accessories supply (or just one depending on your budget)
120-180W worth of panels on the roof with an isolator/regulator that drops them off when the alternators running
and a 25-30 amp alternator in stead of whatever you have. (or wind back the wattage on the excite winding feed till you max out at whatever the rated max charge amps are on the gels)

if the alternator cant push the amps you cant cook the batteries.


best of all worlds but then you could also use traditional deep cycles to the same effect but you cant do a big draw on them.

Thats the calling card of the gel cel batteries BIg amps out for a little while or a few for a long time. The achillies being the way you have to charge them.

Deep cycle batteries offer the same draw back when it comes to charging you cant just dump a truckload of amps into them and expect a full life but they are more forgiving and usually will give you some warning before they collapse. (they are also about half the price and twice the weight of a gel)
I think having a current limiting device like you described could work well in conjunction with a suitable solar charge controller on a vehicle. That way any size alternator could be used. Leaving at least one solar panel connected would prevent over-discharge over longer periods of idleness.

[pawl]

So are there commercial regulators available you can install for charging Gel cells from your alternator? Or can some dual battery isolators sense the charge required?...Not that I would ever consider getting a Gel cell now!

[Blknight.aus]

yes there is, most of them are dc-dc type battery chargers.

[drivesafe]

So are there commercial regulators available you can install for charging Gel cells from your alternator? Or can some dual battery isolators sense the charge required?...Not that I would ever consider getting a Gel cell now!

Hi pawl, the easiest way around the temperamental operating characteristics of Gel batteries, is don’t use them.

I’ve never been a fan of this type of battery and add to this the fact that most were never designed for automotive use, and the same goes with most AGMs, Flooded Wet Cell batteries are still by far the best battery for value.

Other than making sure their surrounds are protected from spillage, Flooded Wet Cell batteries are far more robust and because they tolerate higher charge voltages and currents, they don’t need any special operating requirements.

[Davo]

So, by "flooded wet cell" batteries you just mean the everyday common type of car battery? Lead plates and battery acid? I figured that's what you meant but wanted to make sure.

[Blknight.aus]

A flooded cell type battery is just that. the cell is flooded with acid and has a screw cap that you can remove to check and top up the acid

a SLAB battery is still a flooded type battery but it doesnt have the usual caps that allow you to top up the acid instead they have a pressure vent that allows excess pressure from overcharging to escape. Gel batteries also fall into the SLAB type construction but they use a thickened Gel form of the acid as opposed to a liquid.

An AGM battery uses an Absorbant Glass Mat to seperate the plates they come in standard flat plate and spiral wound constuction They are typically also a SLAB type construction but for very hevy duty applications are available as a traditional flooded cell setup.

Gel batteries are typically sealed like a SLAB but use a gel form of acid which makes them suitable for prolonged trickle charging and storage, odd orientations and arduous conditions use as the gel doesnt evaporate easily.

they all have various advantages and disadvantages and in they eyes of the sales man the order I have listed them in is from bad to good. flooded cells being the worst batteries and the gel being the ducks nuts.. My personal opinion is that the Flooded wet cell is your best value for money providing you want to look after it. A SLAB is a good battery for someone whose not in the habit of abusing their batteries but doesnt care about active maintenance

A good spiral wound AGM battery offers you your best bang for buck and the Gel battery has potential but is still a couple of steps away from where they need to before I start reccomending them for every day use

[101 Ron]

I used to run a Gel battery for a Ulite aircraft because of the lower weight and acid free enviroment on a alloy frame.
My first one I stuffed because I didnt treat it properly and was dissapointed in the battery.
I purchased another replacement and it is going OK ten years later.
If very flat you can only trickle charge them.
If overcharged they will be stuffed(you will usually hear the safety vents open and discharge gas and if this happens the battery will be stuffed)
I now have a ten year old second hand set on a wind generator/ solar set up at home and they are still working perfectly.
I play will electric forklifts for a living and often find gel batteries in them as standard or as a fitting by the customer trying to save money by doing the battery replacement by themselves.
If the the battteries are not matched correctly to the charger, the GELs will fail in short order.
If everthing matches , the Gels will last for a very long time and have alot5 of advantanges.
THEY ARE NOT A POS.
Most normal batteries are miss treated and do not last there full expected life time......I have lost track how many flooded cell/deep cycle batteries I have had to replace by deep discharge and overcharging/wrong charger/ no maintaince....they are cheaper so peaple complain less when they fail.
A normal battery is just a little more forgiving..........but does have similar problems.
Batteries, load and charging Must Be Matched.

[PAT303]

Sorry to all the GEL likers but all I did was run my fridge overnight and the thing stuffed.I can't change the way the alternator charges the battery,I can't take all the extra crap to charge it out in the bush and I can't judge when how and why the thing gets used,all I want it to do is supply power when I want it and nothing more,if I have to dictate where I go and how I get there because of the thing it's a POS. Pat

[UNDEROVER]

For what it's worth, I have a "pulse" gel battery in as an accessories power supply. It's my first gel type battery I've used and after the first wet cell lasted about 2 years, the gel is now 3 years old and going fine.
It's rigged up to take direct charge from the alternator and not at a reduced rate, which became a concern to me after I bought the thing as I found that they prefer a lower rate of charge.
On the face of the battery, it says that it's suitable for taking direct charge from an alternator so I thought I might as well give it a shot, and to date I've had no dramas.
As a side note, my fridge cuts out at 10.5 volts so the battery doesn't end up completely flat.
Cheers, Matt.

[Blknight.aus]

thats the rub....

you cant put full amps onto a flat gel (say less than 10 volts or so)that will cook them.

So long as you keep them at a resonable voltage they will deal with a full load of amps from an alternator because under those circumstances its not really the full output of the alternator.

[PAT303]

thats the rub....

you cant put full amps onto a flat gel (say less than 10 volts or so)that will cook them.

So long as you keep them at a resonable voltage they will deal with a full load of amps from an alternator because under those circumstances its not really the full output of the alternator.

So as drivesafe said,no good for cars. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

in theory they're fine for cars providing you dont let them get too flat.

the problem is... what happens if you do let them get too flat. OK for someone who monitors their batteries and knows the old trick of wiring a headlight bulb to the output of an alternator to limit its amps and how to impliment it on the side of the road after checking the voltages prior to starting the car but what about the average punter who wants start n go n no caring about it.

my main reasons for not reccomending them arent that they arent suitable, with proper setup they're fine and can be setup to be used as setnforget batteries its three fold

1. They give very little to no warning when they are going to let go.
2, They dont always fail completely sometimes they'll work fine driving a fridge and then charging up but they wont pump any serious amps, sometimes they wont take a full charge (stopping at say 11V) and wont deliver for very long but they will still start the car and take charge (these ones occasionally come back to life with deep cycling and re-orientating)
3. Very very occasionally they go pop cracking the casing and spitting bad stuff everywhere.



I'm sure that drivesafe has his own specific reasons for not reccomending them. The batteries are getting better and cheaper. It was the same deal with the spiral wound AGM's when they came out.

Ring the manufacturer of the battery (not necessarily the place that sold it to you) you might find that they may come to the party in helping you get a replacement.

[Davo]

So you have to take more care of them than with another type, and if you're out in the bush it's another hassle you don't need. What an educational thread.

[drivesafe]

I’m not as specific as Blknight, I just don’t think they are anywhere near as robust as the standard flooded wet cell and while I agree with Blknight regarding spiral AGMs being the bees knees, the price is also way over the top for them.

And conventional AGMs, being as you can’t put them under the bonnet, are just to limited in their use, for the prices being asked.

This is what always brings me back to flooded wet cells, the price.

[bee utey]

There are ex UPS gel cells all over ebay; I bought a set of six 2 Volt 300 AH ones for a back-up solar power supply at home and they are going great guns. However if they aren't rated for vibration, then 4WD/truck rated wet cells would have to be the go. Just that wet cell batteries are a pain to use inside a vehicle without a properly constructed battery compartment.

[Blknight.aus]

So you have to take more care of them than with another type, and if you're out in the bush it's another hassle you don't need. What an educational thread.

more or less yes... If you invest in a decent battery management setup they are set and forget look after them and they will return up to 15 years of service possibley more (I still have a small one ratted from a UPS that drives an emergancy light thats now on its 12th year and still makes book specs) If you tried to treat them the way I treat the n70's in fozzy theyd last a week, two tops.


I’m not as specific as Blknight, I just don’t think they are anywhere near as robust as the standard flooded wet cell and while I agree with Blknight regarding spiral AGMs being the bees knees, the price is also way over the top for them.


Thats actually pretty much where I stand.

Flooded cells give you the best bang for buck. For the standard asking price of one spiral wound AGM I got 3 N70's 2 for fozzy, one for the black thing.

Spiral AGMS give you your best performance. If I was specing up an emergency vehicle or a comp vehicle thats what I'd put in.

I think this will be an interesting thread to have again in about 5 years time.

[drivesafe]

Just that wet cell batteries are a pain to use inside a vehicle without a properly constructed battery compartment.

Hi bee utey, all you need is a battery box and obviously the chances of getting spillage with wet cells is the main reason for putting them in a box, but in all fairness, you should also be putting sealed batteries in a battery box, is they are over charged, they too will leak and you have more chance of over charging sealed batteries than you do with a flooded wet cell.

[drivesafe]

I think this will be an interesting thread to have again in about 5 years time.

And hopefully by then we will be discussing the pros and cons of different brands of fuel cells

[PAT303]

I’m not as specific as Blknight, I just don’t think they are anywhere near as robust as the standard flooded wet cell and while I agree with Blknight regarding spiral AGMs being the bees knees, the price is also way over the top for them.

And conventional AGMs, being as you can’t put them under the bonnet, are just to limited in their use, for the prices being asked.

This is what always brings me back to flooded wet cells, the price.

You can buy CAT wet cell batteries for $140 and they are the toughest batteries you can buy,that is a fact.The spiral AGM batteries are $500 each,thats stupid money for a battery. Pat

[PAT303]

Hi bee utey, all you need is a battery box and obviously the chances of getting spillage with wet cells is the main reason for putting them in a box, but in all fairness, you should also be putting sealed batteries in a battery box, is they are over charged, they too will leak and you have more chance of over charging sealed batteries than you do with a flooded wet cell.

Drivesafe,how do batteries ''over charge'',doesn't the regulator do that?. Pat

[Davo]

Where can you buy these CAT (I'm assuming that's as in "Caterpillar") batteries online in WA? I've never seen one and don't expect to up here. The last battery I bought was like all the others I've seen around here, from the Phillipines. (It's alright, but, you know, it was for a mere car, not my Landie.)

[Blknight.aus]

Drivesafe,how do batteries ''over charge'',doesn't the regulator do that?. Pat

theres 2 types of over charge. Over volts and over amps.

the regulator on an alternator only provides voltage regualtion.

In theory if you pull the regulator off of an alternator it could make unlimited voltage depending on how fast you spun it. In reality once you start putting a load on it the voltage drops off as the amps increase.

Over volts charging causes stuff to break down sort of like putting a 12v globe into a 24v circuit.

Over amps charging causes heat problems and generally that causes the acid to heat up. No problem in a wet cell (to a point) as the acid just circulates in the battery from convection and dumps the heat outside the casing. Big problem in a gel cel as the gel doesnt move very much it gets localised boiling and that then deforms things or leaves "burns" on the plates that then stops that area of the plate from working. When you get a burn point the rest of that plate works harder to carry its share of current so they get hotter and you get a cascading failure of the plate.

[drivesafe]

Vehicle charge voltage is not controllable but it’s not so much the vehicle’s charging voltage but what a battery is designed to tolerate that is the problem.

If you don’t know what battery can take your vehicle’s operating voltage, you may be causing your own early battery demise.

USA type gel batteries are mostly designed to tolerate no more than 14.1v max. These are not that common in RV use here but they are around and in my opinion, should be avoided for RV use.

Most Maintenance Free, automotive type Gel and and most AGMs are designed to take no more than 14.4v.

Good old fashion automotive Flooded Wet Cell cranking and deep cycle batteries and dual purpose Marine batteries will take 14.7v as a standard maximum continuos charge ( operating ) voltage but can tolerate up to 16v for short periods of time.

As mentioned, there are also the Spiral type AUTOMOTIVE AGMs, these can be used as a direct replacement for Flooded Wet Cell automotive batteries.

While Maintenance Free and automotive type Gel batteries can tolerate high charge currents, as Blknight pointed out, probably not that good for them if done regularly.

Most AGMs are CURRENT LIMITED both while charging and when under load and the major problem here is that most users of these batteries are unaware of their limitations.

Flooded Wet Cell, dual purpose Marine and Spiral type AUTOMOTIVE AGMs will take full inrush current while charging.

Flooded Wet Cell and dual purpose Marine are literally self-regulating and set their own limits to the amount of current they will absorb while charging, no matter how big the alternator is.

Again, Spiral type AUTOMOTIVE AGMs will also take full inrush current while charging but the big difference with these batteries is that the bigger the alternator, the more these batteries will take.

[drivesafe]

Just to make selecting the correct battery just that much harder.

There are differents way to label batteries.

You can have a conventional flooded wet cell battery that has Antimony/Lead alloy neg and pos plates or you can get a battery with Antimony/Lead alloy neg plates and Calcium/Lead alloy pos plates and this type of battery is your usual maintenance free battery but is some time called a Calcium or Calcium Hybrid battery.

These types of batteries are still conventional type batteries.

Now things get confusing.

The newer batteries are Calcium/Calcium ( or sometimes called Calcium/Lead/Calcium ) batteries, and are also commonly known as Calcium batteries but they are a totally different kettle of fish.

Calcium/Calcium batteries have been around for about 20 years but it’s only been in the last 8 to 10 years that they have become fairly commonplace.

These batteries come in both flooded and fully sealed types and will eventually replace the the older “conventional” type batteries and while these new batteries have some technical advantages, but it’s actually the fact that these batteries are much cheaper to produce is the reason for their popularity with battery manufacturers.

So have fun trying to sort out which battery is what!

[PAT303]

Where can you buy these CAT (I'm assuming that's as in "Caterpillar") batteries online in WA? I've never seen one and don't expect to up here. The last battery I bought was like all the others I've seen around here, from the Phillipines. (It's alright, but, you know, it was for a mere car, not my Landie.)

Westrac,and with private sales you get a free hat!!!. Pat

[PAT303]

Just to make selecting the correct battery just that much harder.

There are differents way to label batteries.

You can have a conventional flooded wet cell battery that has Antimony/Lead alloy neg and pos plates or you can get a battery with Antimony/Lead alloy neg plates and Calcium/Lead alloy pos plates and this type of battery is your usual maintenance free battery but is some time called a Calcium or Calcium Hybrid battery.

These types of batteries are still conventional type batteries.

Now things get confusing.

The newer batteries are Calcium/Calcium ( or sometimes called Calcium/Lead/Calcium ) batteries, and are also commonly known as Calcium batteries but they are a totally different kettle of fish.

Calcium/Calcium batteries have been around for about 20 years but it’s only been in the last 8 to 10 years that they have become fairly commonplace.

These batteries come in both flooded and fully sealed types and will eventually replace the the older “conventional” type batteries and while these new batteries have some technical advantages, but it’s actually the fact that these batteries are much cheaper to produce is the reason for their popularity with battery manufacturers.

So have fun trying to sort out which battery is what!

I run my winch,spot lights and fridge off the second battery,what battery is the best choice for me?,I want another odyssey but no one carries them here,whats my second best choice,I'm leaning towards the CAT. Pat

[bee utey]

I run my winch,spot lights and fridge off the second battery,what battery is the best choice for me?,I want another odyssey but no one carries them here,whats my second best choice,I'm leaning towards the CAT. Pat
I still like my N70EX Exide "Extreme" battery, its nearly 8 years old and has been run down on occasion by the fridge. It is rated as a "semi-deep cycle" battery. Last year when I asked at a Bridgestone outlet I was quoted $140 trade, but mine hasn't shown signs of dying yet...

[Blknight.aus]

I run my winch,spot lights and fridge off the second battery,what battery is the best choice for me?,I want another odyssey but no one carries them here,whats my second best choice,I'm leaning towards the CAT. Pat

bet he suggests a flooded wet cell. If he does I'll gab you the numbers off of my 760CCa N70. its had 12 odd months of abuse multiple flattenings, a couple of over chargings and still puts 800 amps out.

[drivesafe]

bet he suggests a flooded wet cell.

Yep always a safe bet in my books.

There are a few things to consider when trying to decide what type of battery will best meet your needs and that means NOT ruling out AGMs.

If the battery is going into a camper trailer or caravan and you not in a position to be able to keep up decent maintenance on the battery(s) then AGMs are a better choice in that once fully charged they can go much longer periods between charges before any damage is done.

If you have power available and/so solar, and can keep a trickle charge on the battery, flooded wet cells will be fine.

Batteries mounted in the back of a vehicle that is your daily drive, then again, whats wrong with using a flooded wet cell.

In both the set ups above, the length of the cable run will pretty well guaranty that you will never over charge your house/auxiliary batteries. So AGMs or flooded wet cells are both equally suited.

Pat, I can’t remember if your auxiliary battery is under the bonnet, it sounds like it is, if so then you can either spend the big bucks and get a spiral type automotive battery or my personal choice would be a second flooded wet cell cranking battery.

You say you run your winch off the second battery, here I would suggest you connect your winch to the cranking battery as this means the shortest cable run from the alternator to the winch and that means a higher voltage at the winch when in use and use a marine battery switch to connect the two batteries together only while winching.

Spot lights, if only used while driving, should be on your cranking battery. But if they are used at other times as well then leave them.

Fridge is fine.

[PAT303]

My second battery is under my seat,main is under the passangers.All the wires except the winch supply wire are the same length.I'll throw the GEL away and buy a CAT wet cell.I hope everyone has learnt as much as I have.A big thanks for both Tim and Dave. Pat

[Blknight.aus]

Yep always a safe bet in my books.



When it stops raining and I can get the water off of the battery, providing the labels still on it I'll grab the numbers off of my batts for you.