Victorian Road Rules

[v12stuart]

Hey guys i really hate some of the new Victorian road laws and i feel quite
strongly about having some of them changed so i've written a little blog thought
some of you might like to have a look at it

Angry Motorists Club (http://amcvic.blogspot.com/)

Cheers,
Stuart

[p38arover]

Well the blog doesn't say anything about the rules that have got up your nose.

What are they?

[v12stuart]

Yeh thats the first post. Look im most ****ed off about the fact that i lost 3 points for having my Ps 'obscured' by having a filthy back window (which is the same amount of points as driving on the wrong side of double lines and doing up to 25ks over the speed limit which is impossible in the rangy :) ) I'm pretty sure having 'obscured' Ps hasn't killed anyone. The high powered vehicles thing is also rubbish i have an 19yrold mate with an mitsu evo 9 with 550bhp and 750nm of torque and he has an exemption because it has 4 doors it can be considered a family car... go figure

[klappers]

19yrold mate with an mitsu evo 9 with 550bhp and 750nm of torque and he has an exemption because it has 4 doors it can be considered a family car... go figure

:Rolling::Rolling: :BigThumb:

That is because it is a family car... albiet with four wheel drive and a 2l TURBO.... get over it. It sucks but that is where you live, deal with it

[v12stuart]

:Rolling::Rolling: :BigThumb:

That is because it is a family car... albiet with four wheel drive and a 2l TURBO.... get over it. It sucks but that is where you live, deal with it

Yeh its bloody ridiculous i have a right to complain maybe i should affix the rangy with 2 turbos and drop a big block chev motor in it. But you must admit 3 points the P plate thing is a bit absurd

[THE BOOGER]

here in NSW your p plate must be visable and on the outside of your car but they dont enforce the outside bit we have the modified car act says that p platers can have anything as long as it comes from the factory even superchargers but you cant put a small aftermarket turbo on your car.:confused: huge number of p platers drive evo,s and turbo wrx,s. and defenders

How did they know you were a p plater if they could not see it or did they pull you over for somthing else first:angel:

[v12stuart]

Thats the dumb thing the cop could see it he just said it was obscured. Not a very nice fellow.

[robzilla]

Thats the dumb thing the cop could see it he just said it was obscured. Not a very nice fellow.
sounds like ya just got a cop with a bad attitude.
Rule of thumb, if they want to ping you, they'll find something...

As for the P-plate laws, yeh they're rediculous. They're easy, knee-jerk reactions that the stupid pollies bring in to make it look like they're doing something.
"P-Plater kills himself in high powered Skyline"
"Ok ban turbo cars"

doesn't do anything to actually change driver attitudes but hey it's all about getting votes isnt it ;)

[klappers]

Yeh its bloody ridiculous i have a right to complain maybe i should affix the rangy with 2 turbos and drop a big block chev motor in it. But you must admit 3 points the P plate thing is a bit absurd

yep it is absurd.. no denying it... i dare say though that there will be bugger all you could do about it.

[SPROVER]

Yeah most cops here in Vic have nothing else better to do then dish out demerit points and point there speed cameras at you while you do 2 kmh over the limit.He could have at least gave you a warning.But being the *****s they are he didnt.:mad: Maybe you should have offered him a bribe.They seem to be pretty good at taking them.:D:wasntme:

[v12stuart]

Yeh the labor government will do anything for votes bring kennet back. Its all very well to constantly target motorists who drive around burning precious fossil fuel but we don't have any other choice Melbourne's public transport is ******* hopeless.

[klappers]

Yeah most cops here in Vic have nothing else better to do then dish out demerit points and point there speed cameras at you while you do 2 kmh over the limit.He could have at least gave you a warning.But being the *****s they are he didnt.:mad: Maybe you should have offered him a bribe.They seem to be pretty good at taking them.:D:wasntme:


:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::TakeABow: :TakeABow:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Yeh thats the first post. Look im most ****ed off about the fact that i lost 3 points for having my Ps 'obscured' by having a filthy back window (which is the same amount of points as driving on the wrong side of double lines and doing up to 25ks over the speed limit which is impossible in the rangy :) ) I'm pretty sure having 'obscured' Ps hasn't killed anyone. The high powered vehicles thing is also rubbish i have an 19yrold mate with an mitsu evo 9 with 550bhp and 750nm of torque and he has an exemption because it has 4 doors it can be considered a family car... go figureDon't think I can come on board with some of your gripes. I can't count how many times that "P" plates are hidden: by too dark window tinting; being so far up behind a number plate that only a bit of white plastic is visible; have even seen where a driver has cut the red letter "P" off the white plastic background and stuck it on the paintwork of a similarly coloured red car.

These are not new laws, it has been an offence to obscure "P" plates since "P" plates were introduced in the 1970's, it has become such a problem that in NSW it is now illegal to display a "P" plate from inside a car.

"P" plates are not there so that the Police know who to randomly pull over. They are there to inform other drivers that the person behind the wheel of the car does not have as much driving experience as most of the others on the road. Personally when I see a red "P" plate and even green ones I know to leave that little bit more room, because while "P" plate drivers think they drive like Michael Schumaker, they often drive like Mr Bean.

I can agree with you on the point of high powered cars though. It is absurd that a driver with less than two or three years of driving experience can drive powerful cars. The system should be based on the power to weight ratio of the car, it should be a graduated scale where the greater the ratio the less passengers you can carry. More than that there should no exceptions because it is the family car or anything of the like. But think yourself lucky, in NSW even the Rangy would be considered a too powerful car.

[v12stuart]

Well technically in vic the rangy is too powerful because its a V8 even though it puts out about 50hp on a good day. Cops dont pick me up on it though. And the high power vehicle laws used to be based on power to weight but they stupidly changed it. You can drive a lotus exige on Ps without any need for an exemption. ?????

[klappers]

Well technically in vic the rangy is too powerful because its a V8 even though it puts out about 50hp on a good day. Cops dont pick me up on it though. And the high power vehicle laws used to be based on power to weight but they stupidly changed it. You can drive a lotus exige on Ps without any need for an exemption. ?????

Sweet... thats what I would be driving... if I could afford one :cool:

[richard4u2]

i'm glad i got my lisence when i did none of this p plate crap and we could and did drive around in single and twin spinner ford custom lines with a thumping great flat head v8 under the bonnet and the sensible ones survived and i think its the same today , but as far as the law is concerned the goverment have to raise money some how

[robzilla]

Well technically in vic the rangy is too powerful because its a V8 even though it puts out about 50hp on a good day. Cops dont pick me up on it though. And the high power vehicle laws used to be based on power to weight but they stupidly changed it. You can drive a lotus exige on Ps without any need for an exemption. ?????
problem was power-to-weight rules were too difficult to enforce. Cops used a "little book" of stats and figures and their accuracy was questionable. in other words, too much work :p
Again, was just easier to put a blanket ban on turbo's and V8's. Pretty funny when you look at what a fresh, red P-plater can hop into...

LEGAL:
BMW M3 (upto E46)
Porsche GT3
Lotus Exige
Nissan 370Z

but heaven forbid you jump into the old man's 3.5l D1 Discovery to go down the shops!

[v12stuart]

"P" plates are not there so that the Police know who to randomly pull over. They are there to inform other drivers that the person behind the wheel of the car does not have as much driving experience as most of the others on the road. Personally when I see a red "P" plate and even green ones I know to leave that little bit more room, because while "P" plate drivers think they drive like Michael Schumaker, they often drive like Mr Bean.


You know just as well as I do that cops target P platers viciously thats why people often don't display their Ps because they don't wont to be "randomly" pulled over. In my case i just had dust and filth on my back window it wasn't intentional.

[robzilla]

You know just as well as I do that cops target P platers viciously thats why people often don't display their Ps because they don't wont to be "randomly" pulled over. In my case i just had dust and filth on my back window it wasn't intentional.
hence why he would've said something along the lines of "it's your responsibility to make sure the plates are visible"

most P-platers get done coz the rear one will fall down onto the parcel shelf or something and they dont realise. If it takes an extra couple seconds to make sure your plates are visible, then that's what you'll have to do.

But chin up, you only get hassled for 3 years. not much considering you'll be driving for 50 odd years more!

edit: and where's ItsNotWorthComplaining? he needs to post just so his username is present :p

[p38arover]

most P-platers get done coz the rear one will fall down onto the parcel shelf or something and they dont realise.

Rubbish! They lay them there so that they can claim that. They don't want to appear like they have P plates.

Most P plates I see exceed the speed limit. I usually drive at about 120 km/h on the motorway and I get get passed all the time by P-platers.

[bigmac]

Rubbish! They lay them there so that they can claim that. They don't want to appear like they have P plates.

Most P plates I see exceed the speed limit. I usually drive at about 120 km/h on the motorway and I get get passed all the time by P-platers.

I thought the P plates stood for pass everything no mater how fast it
is going. That's the way I see it here in QLD. :nazilock:

Bigmac

[mudmouse]

Displaying 'P' plates....

Well considering novice drivers - provisional licence holders - are grossly over represented in serious injury and fatal collisions, the Government is expected to do something about it. Bit like running around wiping ar%ses really.

So, if you can't excercise the discipline to display two 'P' plates correctly - something so simple, then what hope is there if you obeying the more comprehensive side of the road rules??

In my experience, the young bloke or lass who wanders down to the auto store and buys a set of 'P' plate holders, instead of wedging them under the number plate, or planning on using the 'someone stole them' BS, then they're the ones who CARE about having a licence and who CARE about others on the road. Have some pride for goodness sake.

So if you get stung for not displaying your P's correctly - PUMP UP PRINCESS! Do it properly and get over it.

Bit off topic, but if tough road rules are the biggest drama in your life, you haven't lived much.

Matt.

[sschmez]

Hey guys i really hate some of the new Victorian road laws and i feel quite
strongly about having some of them changed so i've written a little blog thought
some of you might like to have a look at it

Angry Motorists Club (http://amcvic.blogspot.com/)

Cheers,
Stuart

Suck it up mate !!!

Maybe even learn something:eek:

You didn't pass the attitude test and he pinged you :nazilock:... next time, keep your mouth shut and maybe you'll drive away with a warning.

Oh, how would I know .... you've started a blog and a thread bleating about it ... reflection of your attitude on the side of the road.

You have the opportunity to tell the nice man in the courthouse on your appointed day, so go tell it to him and see what you get.

No, I'm not a cop

have a nice day
Stevo:)

[saiken]

It really annoys me when P platers whinge about the fact that the cops are out to get them and rah rah rah rah. Before anyone says anything I've only been off my P's for just over a year now, oh and before anyone says I'm a cop lover or some bull crap i lost my license not long after getting it for exceeding the speed limit by 45km/h++. No I'm not proud of it [hence not putting down the speed i was doing], I lost my license for 12 months on the spot, plus lost it for 3 months for the points and then had 1 demerit point for 12 months after all of that.

I've never been pulled over besides that one incidence, never lost a point besides those ones, etc. I drove a 340rwkw EF fairmont with a hornet scoop on the bonnet, a car that attracted near zero attention from cops, and that was with "Vinyl sticker" red P plates put on the outside of the windows. The reason I never got pulled over was because I was never doing anything stupid, now I'm sure alot of P platers will claim that they was "just driving normal" but I've seen how alot of you drive and I did it to at one stage, but due to my ties to motor sports I realised just how stupid all the crap that they do is [this is by no means restricted to just P platers].

Now I'm not trying to say you was doing something wrong, you might not have been, however I also grew up in the wrong crowd and used to travel around in a car with a guy that had warrants out against his car [to be searched for drugs or weapons at the polices choice] and I have to tell you the way him and his mates all treated the cops was that horrid that I can completely understand their lack of respect for P platers, because of the sheer arrogance and pigheadedness of a select few of them.

As well as all of this, in my capacity as a tow truck driver we do a heap of hoon tows [out in the western suburbs] and yet again the attitudes the cops receive is ridiculous. All these people need to start taking responsibility for their actions! I know I walked into my local cop shop like 6 months after I lost my license and I thanked the copper that did me and shook his hand telling him that its really changed my opinion on things and that I thought he'd probably saved my life... Cause lets face it, insurance companies don't have an under 25 excess for no reason. The 18-25 year old bracket accounts for almost half the accidents on our roads.

I think I'll end my rant here and I hope it makes sense for everyone, and yet again I'm not trying to say that you did anything wrong mate. The cop might of been a douche that was having a crap day, but you need to understand that they treat P platers the way they do for a reason, so just follow the law to the T and you should be fine **External P Plates are the best**... oh and in reference to your mate with the evo, that whole system was setup so that people could bribe vic roads by paying the admin fee for the exemption.

[Blknight.aus]

its not so bad...

when I was driving trucks in sydney I had to display P plates on Heavy combination vehicles...

I got my license by converting my military license. Turned up on the day for my test on route from point a-b for a recruiting display, had 8 hours to do a 2 hours job and permission from the CO to use the combo to take my civvie test.

First instructor couldnt test me because he wasnt ticketed to drive a heavy combo.

next instructor couldnt test me because while he could drive heavy combo he wasnt lisenced for a crash box.

third instructor couldnt test me because he wasnt certified for the oversize load I had on board.

the boss came out took one look at it and simply said "you got it here, its not bent you pass"

then because my civvy car license was a old School NT one and not on the NSW data base when driving a civillian truck I had to display P plates because NSW had no record of me holding a civvy license.

try explaining to a cop whose just pulled you over for displaying P plates on a double articulated truck that no, you are not cocking about and yes, by law I have to display P plates on this oversize load.

[350RRC]

Suck it up mate !!!

Maybe even learn something:eek:

You didn't pass the attitude test and he pinged you :nazilock:... next time, keep your mouth shut and maybe you'll drive away with a warning.

Oh, how would I know .... you've started a blog and a thread bleating about it ... reflection of your attitude on the side of the road.

You have the opportunity to tell the nice man in the courthouse on your appointed day, so go tell it to him and see what you get.

No, I'm not a cop

have a nice day
Stevo:)

Not quite the way I would have said it, but I have similar sentiments. The law might be an ass, but it is still the law.

Respect for the intent and application of the law is sadly lacking in the 18 to 25 yo age group, somehow they seem to 'know better'.

Vic has a big prob (as a percentage of preventable grief) with young blokes getting in whatever car with their mates and coming unstuck, primarily because the law is a minor consideration in decision making.

Darwinism in action, but not ideal.

cheers, DL

[Hoges]

Have you paid the fine?
don't mean to give you ideas but the logic of this has me puzzled:

IF the P plate was "obscured" ...how did the policeman know it was a P plate.

..did he take a photo to prove his point in case you objected?

Get advice on the interpretation of the law regarding a definition of "obscuring" wrt dirty windows..

my point is that there must have been sufficient clarity for him to recognise it for what it was: viz a P plate ... so what's his gripe...he could either see it or he couldn't ...?

just asking the question... perhaps a well written letter explaining the situation... or be brave and take it to court if you are really vexed about the fairness of the policeman's interpretation of the law. A Magistrate is more inclined to be swayed by a well argued case than a bureaucrat behind a desk... all depends on how far you are willing to argue for what you believe is a principle... if you do go to court, wear a collar and tie! :angel:

[Chucaro]

........... if you do go to court, wear a collar and tie!

plus a can opener for "the can of worms" because before you have the chance to talk they will read the history of your life if you had accidents or fines in the past ;)

[rovercare]

Few view points

Having lost my licence (suspensions and cancellations) 6 times in the first 4 years, that's 6 months+3 months+3 months+3months+3months+1month, I used to think "all cops are assholes"

Fact is, your still doing the wrong thing, suck it up, get over it and move on, I still think alot are assholes.....but have met some great ones in my personal life....just like real human beings:D

Eventually you grow up a bit....you don't stop being silly so much as get wiser, where?, when? what are the risks? is it worth it? I was pulled up atleast twice a week for those 4ish years, now, lucky to be twice a year

If you make yourself a target, you will be targetted;)

[richard4u2]

........... if you do go to court, wear a collar and tie!

plus a can opener for "the can of worms" because before you have the chance to talk they will read the history of your life if you had accidents or fines in the past ;)
in w.a i am pretty sure this is something they can not do , you must be judged on the case before the court, only.

[V8Ian]

in w.a i am pretty sure this is something they can not do , you must be judged on the case before the court, only.
I think it's Common Law everywhere, your record cannot be sighted until the verdict is decided.

[THE BOOGER]

Yep think thats right unless the beak has meet you before:angel: then you get a two year ban :eek: eeerrr:wasntme::angel:

[digger]

Yeah most cops here in Vic have nothing else better to do then dish out demerit points and point there speed cameras at you while you do 2 kmh over the limit.He could have at least gave you a warning.But being the *****s they are he didnt.:mad: Maybe you should have offered him a bribe.They seem to be pretty good at taking them.:D:wasntme:



\mmm always helps to paint an accurate and clear picture doesnt it....

painting with a broad brush???

im assuming noone ever in your occupation was shonky (sorry shonks!) or dodgy at all.....

[MickS]

Mate, as has been stated. And quite eloquently by Diana. Tough titties. I also stay away from P platers. They have a poofteenth of driving experience, yet drive like they have been driving for years.

This isn't directed at you mate, but the mentality is that in the case of inexperienced driver's - all's well and good travelling in excess of the speed whilst blasting doof doof music from a sub woofer, texting mates - but when 5 year old little Johnny runs out in front of you - you have no ****ing hope. Mudmouse made the point of how P platers are over-represented in statistics - precisely.

And don't get me started on the ****wits who actually go to the trouble of using scissors to cut the white part of the P plate off, only to leave the actual "P"...****wits.

A drivers licence is not a right...it's a privilege...it should be held in such regard. The joke is, you need a licence to drive a car, but not to have kids...but that's another thread entirely...

[klappers]

its not so bad...

when I was driving trucks in sydney I had to display P plates on Heavy combination vehicles...

I got my license by converting my military license. Turned up on the day for my test on route from point a-b for a recruiting display, had 8 hours to do a 2 hours job and permission from the CO to use the combo to take my civvie test.

First instructor couldnt test me because he wasnt ticketed to drive a heavy combo.

next instructor couldnt test me because while he could drive heavy combo he wasnt lisenced for a crash box.

third instructor couldnt test me because he wasnt certified for the oversize load I had on board.

the boss came out took one look at it and simply said "you got it here, its not bent you pass"

then because my civvy car license was a old School NT one and not on the NSW data base when driving a civillian truck I had to display P plates because NSW had no record of me holding a civvy license.

try explaining to a cop whose just pulled you over for displaying P plates on a double articulated truck that no, you are not cocking about and yes, by law I have to display P plates on this oversize load.

:Rolling:

[digger]

problem was power-to-weight rules were too difficult to enforce. Cops used a "little book" of stats and figures and their accuracy was questionable. in other words, too much work :p
Again, was just easier to put a blanket ban on turbo's and V8's. Pretty funny when you look at what a fresh, red P-plater can hop into...

LEGAL:
BMW M3 (upto E46)
Porsche GT3
Lotus Exige
Nissan 370Z

but heaven forbid you jump into the old man's 3.5l D1 Discovery to go down the shops!


so now the cops wrote all these laws??

strewth there would be a lot better laws around if that were the case..

like:- indecent facial exposure
theft of oxygen,
idiot in public place...

there are so so many more.....

maybe think about it this way, who goes to the scene and waiting for ambos or firies to arrives tries to comfort the person in the car whos obviously about to die, or is badly injured and has killed/injured a mate....

who knocks on the door to tell mum/dad/wife/hubby/kids, sorry but freddy wont be coming home anymore...

who is the one who has to take a close relative to view the battered, deceaseds body and formally identify them?

maybe, just maybe cops have a vested interest in stopping young freddy from wrapping him/herself about a tree or nearby driver... maybe they see it differently to how you do....

and the cops dont set the fines or make the laws (in fact a lot of the time they arent even consulted hence loopholes ned kelly couldve got his head out of..) maybe talk to your local politician....

they make these laws....

Ohh and a CONSERVATIVE estimate on cost of serious accident in road blockage, damage, repairs, investigation, reccomendations and repairs/alterations puts average serious injury/fatal accident cost at about (picture Dr Evil) $1 million dollars !!!


throw me a bone here people!!!


seriously , youve had a stinger from one officer, it comes down to where you guilty of the offence? (even if its a ****y one?) if so, learn the lesson, pay the fine and make a mental note to be careful NOT to "donate" any money to the government in this (or any) other way in future....

if one carpenter does a crap job does that mean all chippies are bastards???

just wondering because im sure everyone can find an example...

my 2c

digger

[robzilla]

so now the cops wrote all these laws??

lol where did that come from?

There was the power:weight ratio law. How does a cop know if a car is over/under the power:weight ratio? They looked it up in a book with stats on, i presume, all cars! but it was the printed stats in this book (i dunno who/where makes it) that were questionable.

[MickS]

As I have said before in another post....and this is getting off topic...when everyone else is running away from the danger...who is steaming toward it? Ambos, Firies, Cops ...so maybe, just maybe, instead of bagging the **** out of the cops...let's go along to our next Police Open day...shake a cop's hand and say thank you...you will shock the **** out of them. And whack a "Cops Are Tops" sticker on your car...might get you a warning instead :D

[3toes]

The idea behind P plates is sound. It gives other drivers warning that this car is driven by someone who is stil a learner and to give them room. Unfortunately they are exploited by the traffic police who know they are more likely to make a mistake and so are easy prey for achieving their performance targets.

In the early seventies P plates were done away with in Queensland with all the usual suspects (as they were then , not as organised or as well funded by the government as they are today) saying that there would be a blood bath as a result. Funny thing happened the accident rates for new drivers did not alter however the number receiving points and loosing their licences fell dramatically.

[digger]

lol where did that come from?

There was the power:weight ratio law. How does a cop know if a car is over/under the power:weight ratio? They looked it up in a book with stats on, i presume, all cars! but it was the printed stats in this book (i dunno who/where makes it) that were questionable.

MMM actually after a reread I may have fired a tad early...read it differently....

errr.... SORRY ABOUT THAT CHIEF!:o

DIGGER

[RaZz0R]

A drivers licence is not a right...it's a privilege

Just having a look over this thread - its funny from the point of view of a motorcyclist such as myself - I mean full time with no car at any point in 12 years - till now of course lol

But I do have to disagree with Micks statement there - I mean - its correct on one hand - but not in another - trying to function in our society with out personal transport leaves you at such a disadvantage due to our crappy public transport system - so in a way the statement is correct - but at the same time wrong as our society has made it in such a way, that with out it your almost trapped. but anyway :) just a thought.

[MickS]

The idea behind P plates is sound. It gives other drivers warning that this car is driven by someone who is stil a learner and to give them room. Unfortunately they are exploited by the traffic police who know they are more likely to make a mistake and so are easy prey for achieving their performance targets.

In the early seventies P plates were done away with in Queensland with all the usual suspects (as they were then , not as organised or as well funded by the government as they are today) saying that there would be a blood bath as a result. Funny thing happened the accident rates for new drivers did not alter however the number receiving points and loosing their licences fell dramatically.

Vehicle technology has changed somewhat in that time 3toes.....allowing these inexperienced drivers to get behind the wheel of an evo direct imported from Japan...yes yes in the early 70's they had Holdens, Fords and Valiants...but now they have V6's that would leave those old V8's for dead....

[digger]

Just having a look over this thread - its funny from the point of view of a motorcyclist such as myself - I mean full time with no car at any point in 12 years - till now of course lol

But I do have to disagree with Micks statement there - I mean - its correct on one hand - but not in another - trying to function in our society with out personal transport leaves you at such a disadvantage due to our crappy public transport system - so in a way the statement is correct - but at the same time wrong as our society has made it in such a way, that with out it your almost trapped. but anyway :) just a thought.

good point but lost a tiny bit of credibility with that avatar in this topic!!!! lol2 lol2

cheers (couldnt resist!!!!!!!!)
(yep back up you go people!!!)



PS in SA law clearly sets out size of white background and size,colour and thickness of "P".... so if you cut it out...you havent got a P plate....
you just have a P (and that rhymes with T...ohh no thats backwards! <<<-- oldy joke)

[RaZz0R]

good point but lost a tiny bit of credibility with that avatar in this topic!!!! lol2 lol2

cheers (couldnt resist!!!!!!!!)
(yep back up you go people!!!)

LOL!! That is a fair call!! lol - I need to replace that with my rangie now lol :D

[V8Ian]

The idea behind P plates is sound. It gives other drivers warning that this car is driven by someone who is stil a learner and to give them room. Unfortunately they are exploited by the traffic police who know they are more likely to make a mistake and so are easy prey for achieving their performance targets.

In the early seventies P plates were done away with in Queensland with all the usual suspects (as they were then , not as organised or as well funded by the government as they are today) saying that there would be a blood bath as a result. Funny thing happened the accident rates for new drivers did not alter however the number receiving points and loosing their licences fell dramatically.
Actually Provisional licences weren't introduced in Queensland until the early 70s. A 'P' plate had to be displayed and secured firmly (not wired on) for the first 12 months of driving. It was an offence for a non-provisional driver to display 'P' plates. The requirement to display 'P' plates was removed by the early 80s and only recently re-introduced.

[MickS]

Just having a look over this thread - its funny from the point of view of a motorcyclist such as myself - I mean full time with no car at any point in 12 years - till now of course lol

But I do have to disagree with Micks statement there - I mean - its correct on one hand - but not in another - trying to function in our society with out personal transport leaves you at such a disadvantage due to our crappy public transport system - so in a way the statement is correct - but at the same time wrong as our society has made it in such a way, that with out it your almost trapped. but anyway :) just a thought.

Which makes it even more important to guard that licence...errr privilege ;)

[RaZz0R]

Sooooo true! :) I think it is why people arch up so quick about points, fines, our goverment etc, etc. One day I wish I could to walk in to a MP's office with one simple question: Who do you work for?

& smack'em till they answer - The Australian People & you - but thats for another chat lol :D

[RaZz0R]

good point but lost a tiny bit of credibility with that avatar in this topic!!!! lol2 lol2

Fixed just for you :eek: :D :angel:

[V8Ian]

It seems to me that there are two basic schools of thought here. On one hand, the people who are saying all coppers are illegittimate, and the other (I note two of them in uniform;)) appear to be saying that if you cop a bluey, just wear it as you deserved it.
It just ain't that simple folks, the 10/90 rule works both ways. 10% of coppers give 90% a bad name. Most cops (ie not traffic) are fair and reasonable, applying the spirit of the law rather than the letter. A senior Police Officer, who I knew socially, told me that usually the fundimental orifii amongst their ranks end up in traffic or watch-house duties. These are the one who will ping you for some obscure technicallity or 1-2 kays over. On the other hand, the drivers are 10% total idiots who need to be removed from the roads ASAP, 'P' platers represent the biggest part of that 10%.
To illustrate the above comment; the other day I was driving the seven kays home from my local shopping centre. As I approached a red light I lifted my foot from the throttle, hoping that the light would change before I reached it. A moron in a black Commodore on 20" rims with rubber bands enveloping them, and displaying 'P' plate overtook me in a dangerous and illegal fashion. He then proceeded to drive at least 1.5 times the posted speed limit. At no time did I exceed the limit, yet when I turned into my street he was less than 100 metres in front of me. Simply because he had no idea how to corner, I caught him up at every bend and intersection. With the remarkable lack of manouvring skill this kid displayed, how well would he cope with an unexpected eventuallity, particularly driving at 80 kph in suburban back streets. Also with our recent wet weather, all the H2O horsepower heros have crawled out of the woodwork. These two examples are very rarely, if ever displayed by over 25-30 year olds, and never by mature drivers of any age.
My father-in-law used to say "It takes no skill to drive flat out, a three year old kid can stand on the accelerator and hold it there."

[saiken]

These two examples are very rarely, if ever displayed by over 25-30 year olds, and never by mature drivers of any age.

.... I agree with you on some level but I've hoon towed 40 year olds..... one of which was a guy that would of been 45-50 that did a massive burnout on a motorbike directly infront of a parked unmarked car **standing burnout** the other was a 40-50 year old who was exceeding the speed limit by 25+ in his Ferrari, so I wouldn't say that they "never" do it. however I agree its more common in younger drivers.

Also I agree with your Father in laws saying :D, hence why I take part in motor-sports now and have undertaken advanced training.

[V8Ian]

never by mature drivers of any age.



.... I agree with you on some level but I've hoon towed 40 year olds..... one of which was a guy that would of been 45-50 that did a massive burnout on a motorbike directly infront of a parked unmarked car **standing burnout** the other was a 40-50 year old who was exceeding the speed limit by 25+ in his Ferrari, so I wouldn't say that they "never" do it. however I agree its more common in younger drivers.

Also I agree with your Father in laws saying :D, hence why I take part in motor-sports now and have undertaken advanced training.
Don't confuse maturity with chronological age. :angel:

[p38arover]

Most cops (ie not traffic) are fair and reasonable, applying the spirit of the law rather than the letter. A senior Police Officer, who I knew socially, told me that usually the fundimental orifii amongst their ranks end up in traffic or watch-house duties. These are the one who will ping you for some obscure technicallity or 1-2 kays over."

One bloke on this forum is ex-Highway Patrol. I asked what was his criteria for excessive speed when he was on the job.

Generally speaking, he said, it was +10% + 3km/h.

So if you were doing above 69km/h (60 + 6 + 3) in a 60km/h zone, you were done.

80km/h in a 70 zone, ditto.
124km/h in a 110 zone, ditto.

That's pretty fair in my view.

[digger]

It seems to me that there are two basic schools of thought here. On one hand, the people who are saying all coppers are illegittimate, and the other (I note two of them in uniform;)) appear to be saying that if you cop a bluey, just wear it as you deserved it.
It just ain't that simple folks, the 10/90 rule works both ways.

and it appears the nail has been hit upon the head!!!
I agree wholheartedly that there are a percentage of cops who are just plain pinching anyone who moves or breathes, but balancing that out is an equal percentage who try desperately hard to do little or no traffic work....

"10/90 works both ways" that is indeed the best way to put it...

and "On one hand, the people who are saying all coppers are illegittimate,"
as for this I quote one my my older workmates " I cant be a bastard, my parents were married, and I know that because I was there.......:angel:"

Im not against P platers and dont actually pick on them, but when you see a car doing something stupid , quite often your eyes are drawn to the P plate that indicates the driver is inexperienced... and if you have a 4 cyl car that drowns out jet noise near the airport, or you have mags on front and stockies on the back, or you have anything else that makes your car stand out.....it will achieve what you wanted we'll all look.... but we may take a professional interest!!

I have for about 15 of my 23 years been in stations where I was responsible for driver testing.... as I said to each one after they passed, if you think this license was hard to get, try keeping all your points thru to your full licence....
I have once had to help cut the very broken (still live and concious) body of
someone who had passed his test and got his licence from me from around a very solid stone fence corner, slid in at god knows what speed sideways..

so id rather stop someone early and be thought a bastard...

cheers

[digger]

One bloke on this forum is ex-Highway Patrol. I asked what was his criteria for excessive speed when he was on the job.

Generally speaking, he said, it was +10% + 3km/h.

So if you were doing 69km/h (60 + 6 + 3) in a 60km/h zone, you were done.

80km/h in a 70 zone, ditto.
124km/h in a 110 zone, ditto.

That's pretty fair in my view.

this is still well used, it was an older coppers rule of thumb used when follow and timing vehicles was the standard speeding enforcement!! some of us
havent stopped using it...(old habits)
(dont rely on it, lots dont use it!)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

........... if you do go to court, wear a collar and tie!

plus a can opener for "the can of worms" because before you have the chance to talk they will read the history of your life if you had accidents or fines in the past ;)
in w.a i am pretty sure this is something they can not do , you must be judged on the case before the court, only.No you are probably correct. They won't read your driving record before the prosecution's case is finished and your clothing in court has nothing to do with the evidence.

HOWEVER

They will read out your driving history (in fact the magistrate will probably have it on the bench) at the time of making the determination and sentence. At that time the collar an tie will represent your respect for the court and the corollary from that your respect for the law AND that may be the one fact why you get a dismissal (under section 556 in NSW) even though the evidence confirms you did the crime.

Remember, the magistrate's court (local court) does not have to follow precedent, the magistrate has a lot of freedom to make a determination outside the letter of the law. That is something not available to the district and higher courts presided over by a judge.

Diana

[saiken]

Don't confuse maturity with chronological age. :angel:


My bad V8Ian

[banjo]

No you are probably correct. They won't read your driving record before the prosecution's case is finished and your clothing in court has nothing to do with the evidence.

HOWEVER

They will read out your driving history (in fact the magistrate will probably have it on the bench) at the time of making the determination and sentence. At that time the collar an tie will represent your respect for the court and the corollary from that your respect for the law AND that may be the one fact why you get a dismissal (under section 556 in NSW) even though the evidence confirms you did the crime.

Remember, the magistrate's court (local court) does not have to follow precedent, the magistrate has a lot of freedom to make a determination outside the letter of the law. That is something not available to the district and higher courts presided over by a judge.

Diana


I agree with Diana fully..

[loanrangie]

All i can say is harden the F up, they are the rules so if you dont like them move states, too many P platers as Ron said purposely try to obscure their p plates so they can look cool or appear older than they are.
I always give L platers and P platers space as they are still learning to drive, but some need a good kick in the arse and taught to have a little patience instead having to be the first in a pack of traffic. They should bring back the power/weight ration system , none of these grey import jap buzz boxes for a start, no WRX's or Evo copies. P platers should be made to drive a 20 year old car for 3 years like the rest of us before all these cheap asian crap boxes hit the market.

[banjo]

Make them all drive series landrovers for a few years something you actualy have to drive..

[V8Ian]

One bloke on this forum is ex-Highway Patrol. I asked what was his criteria for excessive speed when he was on the job.

Generally speaking, he said, it was +10% + 3km/h.

So if you were doing above 69km/h (60 + 6 + 3) in a 60km/h zone, you were done.

80km/h in a 70 zone, ditto.
124km/h in a 110 zone, ditto.

That's pretty fair in my view.
Again Ron, the 10/90 rule applies. Demonstrating why we should not make wide sweeping generalizations.

[Tombie]

Suck it up Princess...

In SA you'll lose your licence for 12 months for failure to display P plates.
(My mates lad had it happen, so have a few others).

Yet a low BAC offence would get someone 6 months disqualified... :o

In the last 3 months theres been over 40 cars clamped/impounded here.
The hoon factor is rife in this place...

(Which is stupid when u consider there are so many places to go 'let of steam' where the cops wont bother going)

[bee utey]

(Which is stupid when u consider there are so many places to go 'let of steam' where the cops wont bother going)

Most older males have forgotten the overwhelming urge to show off in public, to question authority, that's the whole point of being stupid! Your mates have to see you do it right there in the town square! It's biological. Dirty "P" plates are simply pushing the point.

Most cops don't hate "P" platers per se, they just hate being given lip. After all, they took the job because they like being important. It's just that more "P" platers give lip than oldies. Crawling definitely helps avoid punishment...

Now that I am going grey I just like to get out of the car and loom over the young little upstart cop who's trying to tell me the road rules. Surprising how quickly they back off when you can spout road rules faster than them.;) Why are cops smaller than they used to be?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Make them all drive series landrovers for a few years something you actualy have to drive..Noooooo

Not on your nellie! This will just make the price of Series Land Rovers climb to silly prices and damage the remaining stock with the hole drilling crowd.

Make them drive Datsun 180B and Holden Sunbirds not something like a series Land Rover that has the weight of an elephant and the stopping power of a horse and cart.

[mudmouse]

"Most older males have forgotten the overwhelming urge to show off in public, to question authority, that's the whole point of being stupid!"

The late Peter Brock did a huge burnout through an intersection in Blacktown(?) a few years ago....right in front of Police. Even he tried the 'don't you know who I am' routine... Umm a role model??

"Most cops don't hate "P" platers per se, they just hate being given lip."

No, they hate knocking on doors and telling mum and dad their boy/girl is dead.

"After all, they took the job because they like being important."

No, most (i know) took the job to lock up crooks and help people.

"Crawling definitely helps avoid punishment..."

No, most can see through a suck up - being honest usually helps.

"Now that I am going grey I just like to get out of the car and loom over the young little upstart cop who's trying to tell me the road rules."

Hmm, that sound's like the actions of a bully. Don't you remember what it was like learning a new job? You ever been a Police Officer?

"Surprising how quickly they back off when you can spout road rules faster than them.;)"

I was always told it's rude to interrupt. And you never said why you were stopped? And unfortunately, those who usually spout road rules are, usually, wrong.

Why are cops smaller than they used to be?

I dunno.

And yes, I take exception to people with attitudes like the one you've demonstated in you post.

Matt.

[THE BOOGER]

Height requirements for NSW police were dropped because they were discriminating against female applicants and because police are not expected to be as intimadating as they used to be its hard to argue with a 6foot 6 120kg officer :p I give the 90% of "good" coppers the thumbs up:thumbsup: I,ll put up with the 10% and use my 140db ships horn at the hoons:twisted:

[SPROVER]

\mmm always helps to paint an accurate and clear picture doesnt it....

painting with a broad brush???

im assuming noone ever in your occupation was shonky (sorry shonks!) or dodgy at all.....

Yeah im not a bad painter at all.:D:D:2up::2up::rolleyes: Hmmm i guess when they are there to uphold the law and they dont,its a different story isnt it? You need to relax a little mate.All he did was have a P plate which wasnt stuck to the rear window.Big ****ing deal.Is that worth $300.I dont think so.:angel: A warning would suffice.And then if he did it again.....Well cop the $300 and be done with it.

[flagg]

I've been pulled over unmpteen times, sometimes for doing really dumb stuff in really fast cars.. I've always been honest, easy and helpful. I've had cops pull me over in a rage, red faced and shouting at me and after a few minutes of talking to me gave a verbal warning 'as I should know better' and wished me a good day. I have never lost points on my license - I have deserved to.

My tips are:

1. Treat them with honesty and respect if/when you are pulled over.
2. Don't drive in way that attracts attention. (erratic, fast, slow, tailgating whatever)
3. Keep your car looking safe. If it looks like a crap box or has backyard modifications.. They will want to make sure its safe to be on the road.

I actually thanked a Policeman once for pulling me over for speeding. I was being cocky, and I deserved it. - he just gave me a warning! I used to drive my Alpina pretty hard and it was just stupid... I got addicted the G-forces and the acceleration. After this incident - I started doing club motorsport with it. MUCH more fun.. and I have not been interested in driving fast on a public road ever since.

Some Police will be on a war path, and in that case you will just have to suck it up.. but then again they are people and we all have bad days.

[THE BOOGER]

Wasnt it victoria that sacked a senior traffic cop for giving warnings the message from the pollies is book em and no warnings thats not the coppers fault very big jump from booking someone to must be good at taking bribes:confused:

[SPROVER]

Wasnt it victoria that sacked a senior traffic cop for giving warnings the message from the pollies is book em and no warnings thats not the coppers fault very big jump from booking someone to must be good at taking bribes:confused:

Yeah so much for practise what you preach here in Victoria.The main cop who does all the RTA ads got fined for doing 10 kmh over the limit.If you speed your a bloody idiot,is how the ads went.I wonder if the boys in blue here follow the same rules.Dont think so!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have to say that it's a thankless job that the Police have to do.

In most cases they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If they turn up to a situation where there are two protagonists, if they take one persons side then they were wrong from the other person's perspective. If they take no action they were wrong from the perspective of the by-standers. If they do take action the Police are wrong from the view of those arrested.

If they charge a motorist for a breach of the law they are wrong from the motorists opinion. If they don't the pollies and the public say they aren't doing their job.

I don't think that I could do their job, but I sure am glad they are out there, but wish they were on the roads more often!

[RaZz0R]

Make them all drive series landrovers for a few years something you actualy have to drive..

Oh hell NO!!!

Want to make new drivers realise how dangerous the roads are? Make then all ride a motorcycle for 6 ~ 12 months before they can have a car or anything 4 wheels - then see how they drive.

But of course that would mean training to people & a cost to the government which means they will come up with new fines :eek: :cool: Wonderful place we got ay :) ?

[BigJon]

I used to drive my Alpina pretty hard.

What Alpina would that be? A modified BMW or something different? Pics?

[buddha D2]

Yeh thats the first post. Look im most ****ed off about the fact that i lost 3 points for having my Ps 'obscured' by having a filthy back window (which is the same amount of points as driving on the wrong side of double lines and doing up to 25ks over the speed limit which is impossible in the rangy :) ) I'm pretty sure having 'obscured' Ps hasn't killed anyone. The high powered vehicles thing is also rubbish i have an 19yrold mate with an mitsu evo 9 with 550bhp and 750nm of torque and he has an exemption because it has 4 doors it can be considered a family car... go figure

It wasn't that many years ago that you wouldn't have got an ingringement notice for obscured or missing P plates.....you would have been sent a summons to go to Court and in most cases, would probably have lost your licence for a short time and an extended probationary period..........if the copper could be bothered with the paperwork.

Simple rule of thumb.....make sure they are clearly displayed.

:nazilock:

[seano87]

I got done by a hidden speed camera in Victoria late last year, for doing 3km/hr over the limit in a 50 zone. I sucked it up, whilst it seems petty and pathetic, fact is, there is a speed limit and it doesn't take much effort to do it.

I am not that much beyond being a P-plater (I'm 22), my car all through my P's was a 1.2L Holden Barina, and a 2.4L 1985 Diesel Hilux. Neither are high powered fast cars, but by god, they can both be just as deadly. I thought I was invincible on my P's - who knew a little piddly engined Barina would do over 170km on GPS, and a 20 year old smokey diesel hilux would do 150. At those speeds any slip up would cause death. I was stupid, and I realise that now.

I have massive respect for the job police do now. I wish there was a higher presence on the road. The big turning point was when I rolled my first Land Rover - unfortunate accident - out near Cameron's Corner, cresting a hill and corner in late-ish afternoon, cow was on the road, only doing about 65km/h, but instinctively tried to swerve, hit a patch of bulldust and rolled 4 times. It was a policeman who picked me up, come 120km from Tibooburra driving the local ambulance. It was the same policeman who made the phone call to my parents telling them I had suspected head, neck and spinal injuries and was going to be flown by the RFDS to Broken Hill in a serious condition.

With respect to the original poster and topic, your P plates were obscured by a dirty windscreen, the police sound like they had a legitimate reason to write you a ticket, albeit slightly petty - what's your big gripe? If you REALLY think you did absolutely nothing wrong, take it to court and have it heard in a manner that might change the situation for you.

[bee utey]

And yes, I take exception to people with attitudes like the one you've demonstated in you post.

Matt.

Let me just say I get upset by uppity young uneducated cops who throw their weight around. I have great respect for the professional intelligent sensible members of the police profession, just its been years since I have run across any. Like any public job its the bad ones that wreck the respect for the good ones. I profusely apologise to any people I have offended.

[MickS]

Ahhh the good old days of policing...everyone wants the local cop to "kick their son up the arse and send him home..." but are the first to complain.

Below is an excerpt from a book - 'The Snowy - The People Behind the Power'... there is a Land Rover reference :) (that's for you LongingforaLandy) as it was used as a police vehicle. Tells of the legend of Bev Wales...we could do with Bev around still...but somehow, he probably wouldn't last 5 minutes in today's police farce...errrr force..

"Of all the men who policed the construction camps, only one man, however, became universally regarded as a legend in his own time ... Constable Bev Wales.

Bev Wales was renowned as being totally and utterly fearless. In 1955, after three years in Cooma, Bev began nurturing the idea of taking over a one-man station up in the mountains. He was about to marry the daughter of one of the Cooma sergeants and didn't want to stay too close to home.

Also, while conceding he had learned more about real police work in a month at Cooma than he would have in five years in Sydney, Cooma too was starting to become routine ... paper work and more paperwork and always to do with the same things -- brawls and road accidents.
"The locals and the 'wogs' as they were called were still feeling each other out. The local lads were toey. They didn't like the young foreigners coming down from the mountains with all their money. The migrant fellows didn't want trouble but they were only prepared to take so much. So there were hundreds of brawls and if a non-Australian was involved, it meant double the paperwork.
"And alcohol, speed, poor roads and extreme weather conditions meant a lot of pretty horrible accidents. Plenty of cars, often loaded with blokes, left the road in places where they'd drop hundreds of feet."
Bev wanted a beat where he took on all work. In December 1955 he sought and was happily granted, the job as replacement constable at Happy Jacks which had the reputation as the roughest camp on the Snowy. The workers there had grown accustomed to being a law unto themselves and had virtually driven out the previous constable.

Bev put a lot of thought into how he would approach his new assignment, his first lone command. From the start he decided he would not wear a uniform as his predecessor had done. He also realised he had to earn the men's respect using the only language they understood. It was a question of his own survival.
On the drive from Cooma to take up his new position he stopped at the wet canteen at Junction Shaft, which was on his new beat and was where a lot of the Happy Jacks' workers drank.
There were a dozen or so fellows drinking. Bev stood, framed in the doorway, until he had their attention: "My name's Bev Wales. I'm the new constable," he said simply.
For a moment the men looked as though they hadn't heard him clearly, then responded with a chorus of whistling and cat-calls.
"So if there's anyone here who thinks he can stop me, then he had better try it now before I unpack my Landrover."
The wolf whistles and jeers got even louder and four solidly built Australians slid off their stools. It wasn't every day a copper actually asked to be punched. They approached the young constable, leering, savouring the moment. They paused just beyond an arm's length, then moved in swinging.

Every account of the incident is the same. Bev Wales used four, maybe five punches to lay the four men out on the floor. He bundled them into the back of his Landrover and continued on to Happy Jacks to lock them up for the night.
"They got a bit of a surprise," Bev said later. Everybody did. Within hours the incident was being recountered throughout the surrounding camps. Happy Jacks had won a package deal, a new constable and prisoners in the one delivery.
By the end of his first month Bev Wales had locked up forty men, most of whom spent several nights in a cell nursing bruised jaws and foreheads.
"Over the years they had gone berserk. There was no law and order whatsoever. Living up in the mountains they thought they were beyond the law. The lawlessness had to stop and I was the one sent to do it," Bev said.
He rarely worked less than sixteen hours a day. His patrol ranged from Eucumbene Portal near Adaminaby (the entrance to the Eucumbene-Tumut tunnel), to Tolbar Camp, up to Happy Jacks, Cabramurra, Kiandra, Kenny's Knob, Tumut Pond, Tooma camp and all areas in between. He was a lone policeman among six thousand workers and the only link between most of the camps on his beat were rough bulldozer tracks.
Bev Wales backed away from no situation, even when he was out-numbered. When brawling men were told Bev was on the way, his reputation preceded him like a bow wave, often quelling disturbance before he arrived. Bev spent sixteen years in the mountains while the Snowy was under construction. He survived through a mixture of police field-craft and bush psychology shaped by the instincts of a boy from the bush.

He attributes his success in handling the men to his decision not to wear a uniform and not to carry a baton: "Bring out a baton in a brawl and you would put everyone offside. But take a man on with just your fists and the others respected you. If you did get into trouble they'd even help you ... but belt one of their mates with a baton and they'd kill you."

What most endeared Bev Wales to law abider and offender alike was that it became apparant at an early stage that he cared for people. He often preferred to allow bush justice to be dealt, rather than invoke officialdom by which a man might lose his job.
"Often I'd arrest a bloke and he'd say: 'Let me fight you Mr Wales. If I win you let me go, eh?'
"The fellows were afraid of losing their jobs so I'd say okay. We'd pair up in the lockup, exchange a few blows till I gave him a good thump and it was over. It was summary justice, something you couldn't do today but it kept the peace there.
"They had no respect for anybody who was soft. They were tough fellows and they expected you to be the same. You had to meet them on equal terms."
But Bev Wales didn't spend all his time thumping recalcitrant construction workers. The biggest workload for all policemen in the mountains arose from the horrific death toll, both on the roads and at the construction sites.
"At Khancoban alone I handled ninety inquests and no death was clean. Men were cut in half, decapitated, blown to pieces, or squashed by huge boulders.
"Death was frequent and it was part of my job. Tunnels collapsed, air hoses burst, truck brakes failed and bulldozers and trucks and cars toppled into ravines. You had to handle a lot of grief and tragedy."

For you Mark...Series I police Landy stationed at Ivanhoe in 1958.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/1393.jpg

[digger]

MICKS nice, life in the old days was tough!!!...


nice change of direction!

digger

[Bigbjorn]

MICKS nice, life in the old days was tough!!!...


nice change of direction!

digger

Bev. Wales boss in Cooma was another legendary & formidable copper whose name has escaped my memory. He was about 6'6" in all directions, no neck, a head like a boiled pudding, and little piggy eyes. His method of breaking up brawls was to wade in, grab two men by an ear each, and slam their heads together with considerable force, then move on to the next pair. With Bev. Wales at his back, this system worked admirably. The occasional European immigrant would pull a knife and then really found out about the "full force" of the law. A period in hospital followed by a prison sentence would follow. "Assault police with a deadly weapon" was frowned upon by magistrates. Other charges usually were "Affray" and "Resist Arrest".

[isuzutoo-eh]

Hey Mick! Thanks for the photo and story. My boss knew Bev Wales back in the day, i'll have to see if he can recount the story too. Almost wish there were a few coppers like him in my area, except the lawyers would have 'em for breakfast :(
-Mark
P.S. think i'll get a cops are tops sticker for my County :)

[MickS]

From Jindabyne tunnel and round Island Bend
We boys go to Cooma, our money to spend
And we'll buy youse some beer there if you happen to see
Four Italians, three Germans, two Yugoslavs and me
We'll pull up in Sharpe Street by the Alpine Hotel
If you've been to Cooma you'll know this place well
And before we're inside our order rings out
Four vinos, three schnappses, two slivovitz, one stout
From the song 'Cooma Cavaliers' by Ulick O'Boyle and The Settlers.If there was one theme which bound the lives of all Snowy workers, it was alcohol. It was the elixir for camaraderie and the balm for fear, boredom, homesickness and loneliness.
The wet canteens in the mountains and hotels and nightclubs in Cooma were eventually open twenty-four hours a day to cater for men working the different shifts. Violence and trouble could occur at any hour.
Managing the aftermath of long drinking sessions fell on the shoulders of the handful of policemen scattered through the mountains and on the Authority's patrol officers. The odds against them were sometimes frightening. More than one policeman was transferred out a broken man.
The lot of a Snowy law enforcer, often working alone among populations of hard-drinking, hard living men, many of whom believed the law was an irrelevance in the mountain frontier, was never easy.
Those who did survive in the tough, knock-about world of the construction camps and towns and who earned their stripes in the Snowy hall of fame were men like Fred 'Careless Hands' Chapman, detective Bill 'Homocide' Holmes, Brian Shultz, Bill 'Chubby' Keefe, Harold Etheridge, Kevin 'Lofty' Lomas, detective Bob Blissett, Bill Graham, Lionel Whitney, Bill Head, Bruce 'Bags' Durrant, Rod Murray, Bev Wales and 'The Admiral', Ron Davey. All could handle themselves -- Careless Hands and Ron Davey had both been champion wrestlers -- and all were colourful characters who fitted into the unconventional way of life in the mountains.
Many were regarded as the central characters in the communities over which they presided. They were men who lived by their wits, rather than the rule book.
The mix of nationalities, the language problem and many of the migrant workers' backgrounds created unique circumstances that sometimes required a swift belt behind the ear and, at other times, sensitivity.
Frank Rodwell, a long-serving patrol officer with the Authority often found peace could be restored after a bloody brawl simply by lending a sympathetic shoulder: "I learned quickly that some of these fellows had gone through hell and were living on a razor edge. One time I was called to a fight caused by a Polish fellow who was drunk. As I dragged him away he started screaming, 'they're all dead ... all dead'. His whole family had been killed in the war and he missed them terribly.
"I had another similar experience with a Yugoslav who had opened a mass grave with his bare hands to try to find his mother ... who wouldn't drink and go a bit crazy after something like that?
Working alone and unarmed the patrol officers often found themselves in hostile and dangerous situations: "But it was the job you had to do ... and if you couldn't do it then you were no good to anybody."
At Sue City, the workers took great delight in the antics of their local policeman, Ron Davey and his cherished boxer dog ... whose name was Boxer.
In the late afternoon just when Ron would be about to taste his first cold beer at the end of a long, arduous day, the valley would echo with the Boxer's plaintive wail. To the delight of the regular drinkers, who had come to know the ritual, Ron would storm from the wet canteen, grab a spade and start to climb the steep valley slopes, following the direction of the wailing.
Somewhere up on the mountain, as everybody had come to know, Boxer had tried to chase another wombat into its hole. The dog would always get stuck about a metre inside and then tell the whole world of its predicament. On locating the animal, Ron would dig it out, slap it furiously across its rump with his trouser belt, then drag it unceremoniously by the collar back to his house where he tied it up.
After three or four days Ron started to feel sorry for the animal, "his mate", moping on the end of its leash. In a flood of affection would let it off for a run. As sure as Monday followed Sunday, on the day the dog was free again Ron would be about to enjoy his first cold ale when the valley would once again echo ... Whoooooooooo.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/1277.jpg
(http://www.bradcollis.net/snowy/bev.jpg)

[Grover-98]

here in NSW your p plate must be visable and on the outside of your car but they dont enforce the outside bit we have the modified car act says that p platers can have anything as long as it comes from the factory even superchargers but you cant put a small aftermarket turbo on your car.:confused: huge number of p platers drive evo,s and turbo wrx,s. and defenders

How did they know you were a p plater if they could not see it or did they pull you over for somthing else first:angel:

I am not too sure about the factory supercharger/Turbos being legal. My understanding is that P platers are not allowed to drive V8s supercharged vehicles of any description nore Turbos unless it is a Diesel or one of the very few exempt family vehicles.

But the way around these laws are if it is your family car or if you live in a rural area you are allowed to drive a V8 4x4.

Also they do enforce the plates being on the outside of the vehicle which is no biggy not that hard to put them on the outside to avoid attracting attention surely ;) Just keep spares in your glove box if one falls off or is nicked put a new one on they are free after all :)

[THE BOOGER]

Its been awhile since i was on p plates but the act refers to modified cars thats why wrx turbos and evos are legal dosnt even mention petrol or diesel thats whats stupid but i looks like the pollies did something:o(stupid again)

[klappers]

I couldnt get insurance over the phone for my D1 300tdi... because it is a turbo vehicle. But that is the insurance companies policy.. not law. As for WRX's and EVO's being legal.. whatever, doesnt really matter does it? You could modify any engine in any car to make it go faster anyway.