Ford Ranger

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

1st February 2015, 08:21 AM
Vern

So do I, I find it very comfy. I will probably get the ecu done sometime this year, they get great results from a bit of a tweak:)
1st February 2015, 08:43 AM
Mick_Marsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by frantic

Rofl:D, maths identical??? when one "engineer" gives a load figure of 300kg and another "engineer who does Xyzabc"gives negative 9kg on the same vehicle, obviously they are absolutely the same.
Put the maths in a row and prove it. Ford ranger load carry of 1000kg. GCM 6.
2.20+ 3.5=5.7
5.7 -6.0= 300kg carry capacity

Now out of the 6 ton you TRANSFER via tow ball 350 kg, and here's where the first "engineer" got lost it comes out of the Rangers total gvm, not the reduced one after GCM or to really make it easier gets TRANSFERED to the ranger ,so:
2.2+ .35 towball weight = 2.55
2.55 +3.15(350kg is being carried by towball)= 5.7:eek:
5.7 -6= 300 kg:twisted:

As for being " condescending terry o" play the ball, not the man. As a mod you really should practice this. You put up two links where no2 link proves no1 cut n paste wrong, not me. ;)
I agreed no2 was correct in regards to ranger, but it's second table on the D4 was wrong, as proven by RACQ article. Further shown by ARB, tjm, pedders GCM increase kits for numerous utes and wagons.

The load transferred by the tow ball is a weight, not a mass. It's a little more complicated than you make it out to be.
As I said before Look at your axle weights.
1st February 2015, 09:29 AM
loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryO

Before buying a Ranger for heavy towing duties have a read of the following information that is cut and pasted from the Statewide4x4.com.au website. It makes for interesting reading and shows that some times manufacturers claims don't always add up.

How Much Can I Really Tow?
What a lot of vehicle manufacturers will not tell you is that towing up to your maximum towing capability can sometimes (but not always) affect the amount of weight you can carry in your vehicle.

For Example:

Ford PX Ranger: GVM 3,200kg / GCM 6,000kg

Ford advertises that the vehicle has the ability to tow 3.5T which it does, however if you take a closer look at the vehicles specifications you will see that the GCM cannot exceed 6000kg. If you take 3500kg max towing capacity from the GCM that leaves you a maximum allowable vehicle weight of only 2,500kg.

GCM: 6000kg - 3500kg (max towing) = 2,500kg

To be able to tow, 3.5T with the PX Ranger you need to take 700kg out of your maximum allowed GVM figure of 3,200kg. If you then look even further into the vehicle specifications it is even more of an eye-opener. Lets assume that you are still towing the maximum amount of 3.5T with the PX Ranger which we will say is a Dual Cab XLT.

GVM (with max towing): 2,500kg - Vehicle Tare Weight: 2,159kg = 341kg

So you are now left with a payload of 341kg. Lets take out a couple more essential items from that figure.

Payload: 341kg - Tow Ball Down Force Approx: 280kg - Fuel approx 70kg = - 9kg

So on a Ford PX Ranger XLT towing 3.5T with a full tank of fuel and approx 280kg of ball weight you are already over your GCM. Now try to add a driver, additional passengers, any luggage, a fridge, bull bar, winch etc and you will be well over your allowable limit. This makes your vehicle unroadworthy and in the case of an accident you risk voiding your insurance payout. As you can understand it is important information that the consumer really should be made aware of.

Don't forget that when you weigh a trailer on its own that the contact points are the wheels plus the jockey wheel, ie a single axle trailer has 3 contact points, a dual axle trailer has 5 contact points.

Those contact points distribute the weight of the trailer. So if you weigh a dual axle trailer for example and it weighs 3.5T that is distributed over 4 wheels and a jockey wheel. So if you have a GCM of 6T and the trailer weighs 3.5T then you have 2.5T left for the vehicle.

If for example, you just weigh the jockey wheel on the weighbridge and it weighs 250kg then the rest of the weight of the trailer is 3,250kg (3,500kg- 250kg). So you now have a trailer connected to a vehicle distributing 3,250kg through the trailer wheels and 250kg through the ball. The total weight is still 3.5T and you still have 2.5T available for the vehicle.

However, if you put the car on the weighbridge with the trailer hooked up but the trailer wheels are not on the weighbridge the car will show 2,750kg but if you weigh the car and the trailer together you will end up with 6T.
1st February 2015, 09:45 AM
TerryO

Not 100% sure where you are coming from Loneranger, but if its a case of minimising the ball weight, which would affect the GCM, then the only real way that I can think off would be with a dog trailer and I have never seen a lite weight purpose built dog trailer for a domestic or light commercial vehicle. Nor do I know if a dog type trailer can be legally towed by one.
1st February 2015, 10:08 AM
loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryO

Not 100% sure where you are coming from Loneranger, but if its a case of minimising the ball weight, which would affect the GCM, then the only real way that I can think off would be with a dog trailer and I have never seen a lite weight purpose built dog trailer for a domestic or light commercial vehicle. Nor do I know if a dog type trailer can be legally towed by one.

I was trying to illustrate that in your example the ball weight of the trailer is included in both your vehicle calculations and your trailer calculations but it should only be counted once.

I don't have a need to tow anything over 2T so its not an issue but yes the only way to minimise your trailer ball weight and maximise your towing and load capacity would be a dog trailer.
1st February 2015, 04:16 PM
TerryO

Yes in that example the ball weight is added to the vehicles weight when working out the GCM, but as has been explained in earlier posts that is the way to work out the GCM according to the certifying engineers that wrote the extract that was taken from the Statewide4x4 website whose business it is to reengineer and certify vehicles.

Here is a link to the page that explains most everything about GVM's, GCM's etc.

GVM Upgrade & GCM FAQ's / Have A Question About Your GVM Or GCM?

As I said to Frantic if he can provide actual written proof, not just opinion on what he believes it means and how the GCM is worked out, then I'm more than happy to forward it to them with a please explain.
1st February 2015, 04:52 PM
pjw

Quote:

Originally Posted by frantic

Rofl:D, maths identical??? when one "engineer" gives a load figure of 300kg and another "engineer who does Xyzabc"gives negative 9kg on the same vehicle, obviously they are absolutely the same.
Put the maths in a row and prove it. Ford ranger load carry of 1000kg. GCM 6.
2.20+ 3.5=5.7
5.7 -6.0= 300kg carry capacity

Now out of the 6 ton you TRANSFER via tow ball 350 kg, and here's where the first "engineer" got lost it comes out of the Rangers total gvm, not the reduced one after GCM or to really make it easier gets TRANSFERED to the ranger ,so:
2.2+ .35 towball weight = 2.55
2.55 +3.15(350kg is being carried by towball)= 5.7:eek:
5.7 -6= 300 kg:twisted:

As for being " condescending terry o" play the ball, not the man. As a mod you really should practice this. You put up two links where no2 link proves no1 cut n paste wrong, not me. ;)
I agreed no2 was correct in regards to ranger, but it's second table on the D4 was wrong, as proven by RACQ article. Further shown by ARB, tjm, pedders GCM increase kits for numerous utes and wagons.

I went back and read the first one again to see what I missed the first time and you are correct, they do use the same weight twice. My bad, sorry.:angel:

More to the point I never realized that to get the maximum GCM both the vehicle and trailer have to be under their maximum weights and with my 130 I can only get to the GCM with a zero weight transfer:o

I was once considering if I could ever part with the defender:eek: I would replace it with the 3.2 Ranger.
1st February 2015, 04:55 PM
loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryO

Yes in that example the ball weight is added to the vehicles weight when working out the GCM, but as has been explained in earlier posts that is the way to work out the GCM according to the certifying engineers that wrote the extract that was taken from the Statewide4x4 website whose business is to reengineer and certify vehicles.

Here is a link to the page that explains most everything about GVM's, GCM's etc.

GVM Upgrade & GCM FAQ's / Have A Question About Your GVM Or GCM?

As I said to Frantic if he can provide actual written proof, not just opinion on what he believes it means and how the GCM is worked out, then I'm more than happy to forward it to them with a please explain.

The only way that example works is if the trailer is actually 3,780kg calculated as 3,500kg on the trailer axles and 280kg on the ball. Otherwise you have to subtract the ball weight from the 3,500kg trailer weight. Its basic maths if you have a vehicle weighing 2.5T and a trailer weighing 3.5T and you connect them you have a GCM of 6T.
2nd February 2015, 04:32 PM
frantic

Definitions;)
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F20...7-0acd0a84c69a

GROSS AXLE LOAD RATING (GALR) - the ?Manufacturer's? specified maximum ?Axle Load? for each ?Axle? for which compliance with applicable Australian Design Rules has been or can be established.
GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the ?Manufacturer? as being the maximum of the sum of the ?Gross Vehicle Mass? of the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the ?Axle Loads? of any vehicle capable of being drawn as a trailer.
GROSS ROAD TRAIN MASS - the sum of the laden masses of each of the vehicle units of a ?Road Train?.
GROSS TRAILER MASS (GTM) - the mass transmitted to the ground by the ?Axle? or ?Axles? of the trailer when coupled to a drawing vehicle and carrying its maximum load approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area, and at which compliance with the appropriate Australian Design Rules has been or can be established.
GROSS VEHICLE MASS (GVM) - the maximum laden mass of a motor vehicle as specified by the ?Manufacturer?.
Your " engineer " has used atm, which is trailers total weight alone. Now this will help generate more clients. All others use GTM. Go to any boat or van site along with racq link I put up as well as ARB ETC,
so he has gone towball load 350 kg onto Rangers payload then for Gvm used ATM NOT GTM.
2nd February 2015, 06:42 PM
frantic

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryO

Yes in that example the ball weight is added to the vehicles weight when working out the GCM, but as has been explained in earlier posts that is the way to work out the GCM according to the certifying engineers that wrote the extract that was taken from the Statewide4x4 website whose business it is to reengineer and certify vehicles.

Here is a link to the page that explains most everything about GVM's, GCM's etc.

GVM Upgrade & GCM FAQ's / Have A Question About Your GVM Or GCM?

As I said to Frantic if he can provide actual written proof, not just opinion on what he believes it means and how the GCM is worked out, then I'm more than happy to forward it to them with a please explain.

Your second link is not actual written proof?????
Ford Ranger upgrade to 3500kg towing capacity: UPDATED 08/01/2013 | L2SFBC
In this article it states the ranger can carry 300kg. by using the formula :
GCM = GVM + GTM
View image: GCM Explanation

Could you please show how statewide do not deduct twice? they drop the payload by 700kg, same as your second, then drop it again by 350kg, when that figure has already been included as part of the ATM.
Yes mick axle loads do have a factor , but state wide make the same mistake in another example of a 200 series landcruiser, one which ARB, TJM, pedders, lovells and RACQ do not make in their load increase kits.

GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the ?Manufacturer? as being the maximum of the sum of the ?Gross Vehicle Mass? of the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the ?Axle Loads#? of any vehicle capable of being drawn as a trailer.

#This means the weight on each axle with the trailer hooked up. Straight from the law book in my previous post.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page