Sydney Biodiesel Retailers -B20

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

untill you put it under pressure.

Right problem wrong, no better not the complete reason and the filtration problems not an issue, a filter change is easy as is modding the fuel system to have extra filters, Fozzys got 6 filters on board now (but I am running pretty much unprocessed WVO)


actually depending on which version of the standards you want to read and work from its 10% unadvertised and depending on your interpretation of the same documents fuel advertised as 10% bio can be up to 20%bio AND theres no requirement to specify what the feedstocks were, the production process was OR what the % of water or particulate count of the bio was prior to being blended with the diesel providing that the fuel at the bowser complies with the overall tolerance for normal diesel.

99% of common rail diesel engines are listed as NOT compatible with BioDiesel. the latest round of euro5 complient diesels have a bio tolerance of 0%.


whats the cracking pressure and temp of your bio?

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Sorry Dave you have been misinformed. I have never seen any information which suggests that BD lubricity deteriorates more than Petro-Diesel lubricity at commonrail injection pressures. On the contrary:

http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/39130.pdf
This study found no wear issues on commonrail injectors from Bio. Note that the main concern/issue is oxidative breakdown.

EN590:2009 Is the Euro standard for diesel fuel. It stipulates a maximum of 7% FAME (7% Bio). Many countries use up to 10% FAME. This applies to Euro 5 diesels as well.

On the filtration issue - sounds like you know more than the world's leading filtration companies then Dave. I bow to your knowledge. Donaldson, MANN and FG have all said that ensuring fuel quality (particle removal and water removal) for high flow, high temp, high recirc rate fuel systems used in commonrail engines is a major problem, which will become worse when mandatory BD content is increased. They admit they do not yet have the answers.


NOTE: I am not proposing that the OP runs Bio - as mentioned, the quality of Bio sold in AU is likely poor or at best highly variable. It may not do damage, but then again it might. It would be likely to do least to fill up with B20 at the start of a long trip, that way the Bio will be used quickly, before it has a chance to break down. However that does not solve the other issues with Bio.

a very good read,



ok onto your document

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Originally Posted by attached link 39130.pdf

None of the candidate test fuel blends tested showed any adverse effects on the wear ratings
of the common rail fuel pumps using a novel 500 hour test procedure. The test results
indicate that the lubricity of the test fuels is adequate for the protection of common rail
pumps running under similar conditions. It should be noted that commercial decisions
concerning lubricity should be based on more than one test.

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funny it doesnt mention ANY where in the entire document any measurement of common rail injectors, just the pumps nor does it cover unitary injectors

have a crack at the wear factors on the injectors and the pumps in appendix 11 12 and 15 and remember that thats only a short term test thats been conducted. as per para 4.4 500 hours of service. pay particualr attention to the deviation from norm patterns on the injector pins... and thats after ONLY 500 hours (unknown for the heavily contaminated fuel, it didnt make the whole test) And thats only for standard low pressure injection.

and..

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Originally Posted by attached link 39130.pdf

The results produced from injector wear tests indicate that the lubricity of the test fuels are
adequate for the protection of diesel injector components running under similar conditions.
The injector component wear test on the highly oxidised B20 blend failed to reach
completion due to fuel filter blockage. It should be noted that the test method used for this
study was a novel 500 hour test procedure. Commercial decisions around lubricity quality
should not be based on a single test.

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hmm filter blockage, sounds like a filter doing its job, time to change the filter, you know, maintenance wise because the filter has done its job in stopping bad stuff from hitting the injector pump and injectors.

the problem with the filtration is easily solved if you dont mind a fairly large multi packet solution... with current technology a one package setup that provides a realistic long term low maintenance solution is not currently achievable.

My filtration system utilises filters intended to run a 250+hp heavy transport diesel and Im only pushing a piddly 50ish HP engine yet I still change filters at the same interval as the big diesels... try finding room for that stuff in something like a D2/3/4, new toyota, jeep, mitsu.. take your pick.

A good re-read of a document Ive read before.

and EN 590 permits a MAXimum of up to 7% bio content in diesel it does not stipulate that it MUST contain 7% biodiesel...

Mercedes, Ford and Volvo still stipulate that their common rail diesel engines are not designed to run with any bio content.

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Originally Posted by superquag

Top speed was reduced, the smaller the engine the more lost, though my 2 litre Mazda van only came down to 130 km/h from 140....

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I find that I'm getting a bit more 'kick' from SVO than Diesel but theres a bit of loss with bio.

I understand that different veggy-oils can yield varying energy content though I've run some preliminary tests (nothing scientific) on my 200tdi comparing performance between BIO and SVO (where the source of oil has been a constant) and found that I am getting higher performance from SVO than BIO.

I'm thinking that on a molecular level vegetable oil has a carbon chain similar (if not identical) to that of petroleum diesel however the glycerol that bonds 3 carbon chains together in vegetable oil is also built up of carbon/hydrogen - it could be possible that the carbon content present in the glycerol could be aiding the the combustion within the engine - resulting in a greater power output.

That glycerin is removed from the oil (as that is what makes oil so viscous) and replaced with methanol in BioDiesel.

Enough of me rambling on - I'm not quite sure why running bio in newer diesels is cause for concern. Bio and Diesel have similar (identical) hydrocarbon chains, the only difference is really viscosity and the addition of methanol which makes bio a solvent.

Bloody new engines...

You could try National Bio-diesel Group (NBG), their head office is in Ryde.
They are the importer/wholesaler, the product is made from Soy and imported from South Africa.
Nice guys as well.:)