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Thread: Injectors/ injector pump failure symptoms?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36

    Injectors/ injector pump failure symptoms?

    OK I`m thinking payback time might be here with WVO usage......
    Here`s the background... 20000km on settled WVO in a Daihatsu diesel powered series 3. (two tank system) Complete novice so I expected some hiccups, and the engine has taken some abuse, namely air in the fuel, fuel starvation, and recently accidentally blocking the spill return until fuel was pumped past hose clamps (to name a few!). Though I`ve come out of the other end a little wiser. Financially I have almost covered the conversion and a pump rebuild, which isn`t really my object but comforting none the less. Before I condemn the pump I wonder if anyone has any feedback on these symptoms;
    Small amount of air in spill return (small air bubble every 10 seconds when hot)
    Very little spill return flow at idle- almost non existant when cold
    Rough idle (cured by heater plugs for a second or two) for a minute or so from cold (heater plugs are working)
    Fuel at cracked injector unions when cranked over (though not much, how much should there be?)
    Finally would not start today

    Can injector pump faults clear up as the engine warms up (its running `ok` once its warm, on diesel and oil)? Could I maybe have blocked injectors? (I had a blocked filter recently that possibly (I`m not sure) allowed some particles through.....) I also put some old diesel through it too (getting cocky) which didn`t seem to affect it immediately but in hindsight could have been a contributor.
    I`m interested in anyones opinion, even ignoring the WVO side, as problems are the same no matter what the fuel. It`s a VE rotary pump by the way.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourn(ish)
    Posts
    25,521
    fits for

    stuffed lift pump, blocked fuel filter or an air leak pre filter/pump

    failing fuel cut solenoid

    injector seat seals stuffed.

    you could also have water contaminated fuel.

    remove all the fuel and try bleeding the system up from a fresh jerry of diesel and see how you go.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    TDI D1(parting/ed)
    Tdi autoManual d1 (Kept it for the girlfriend)
    Archaeopteryx 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36
    Hi Dave thanks for the suggestions. I changed the filters this afternoon and found some suspicious greasy stuff in the bottom (yes it sank) of the filter bowl that could possibly be grease from winter settlement of the oil or sediment from the dodgy diesel I used perhaps....Also I cleaned the strainer in the facet pump not specially dirty but the fuel that came out was cloudy in the jar so I spose I will drain the tank and try some fresh stuff......The facet pumped a little faster after the clean but...No change it still won`t start.....The fuel cut off solenoid is pretty quiet when I pull the connection off, like not a solid click but am I just used to starter solenoids??!!?
    My injectors all had a good pattern 20000k`s ago and it wasn`t smokey at all, would that rule out injectors (I`m thinking I`ll take them out and check them before attacking the pump....)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourn(ish)
    Posts
    25,521
    youve probably gooped the pump..

    you need to blow back all the lines with them disconnected, prime the pump with diesel, heat it all up with a hot air gun (you want to get to at least 70 degrees) and go again.

    I wouldnt expect all the injectors to fail at the same time.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    TDI D1(parting/ed)
    Tdi autoManual d1 (Kept it for the girlfriend)
    Archaeopteryx 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36
    Yes sounds feasible.....OK I`ll give it a try I`ve got the bonnet up with the sun streaming in at the mo......

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36
    Well......it started with a bit of sun to warm it up and full throttle....I think what happened is what with the fuel return being much slower the oil didn`t get purged properly and just recirculated within the pump. So, its going, but what would cause the slow fuel return? The outside of the pump is clean, though I replaced the `easy` seals just after I got the engine (it sat around for a couple of years by the sea) I wonder if the internal seals (I`m assuming there are some) are a bit dicky. Everything else is the same as before the flow decreased.....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Townsville Nth Qld
    Posts
    565
    Hi Mate, I ran wvo in my discovery until someone decided to fall asleep and hit me head on. Discovery 1 Corolla o Anyway a few things i learnt. The facet pump has a cindered bronze type filter . I ran a a drill through it as it was struggling to push the WVO. Im not sure of your system but i ran a dual tanks. one for wvo with a separate filter. i also ran the wvo through a pre heater, and ran the return line back into the filter of the wvo. it helped with the heating. Now i live in Nth Qld which gets hot but I would still run a pre heater. Happy to provide any help if needed. I used to start on diesel and go about 2-3 klm on diesel and switch across to wvo. prior to stopping switch back to diesel for the last few ks. Never had a problem. on short trips to the shops carried out first step and purged before I got home after stopping for short times at shops. Nill issues. Happy to chat if you pm me your number. Now i would say you have crap in the pump give it a good long run on diesel and it should clear.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36
    Rightyo Bazzle bummer about the head on.....Yes I`ve done about the same as you, its all heated , the facet pump pumps diesel only, I have a whizz bang Mallory for the oil though its not all that whizz bang.....(and a separate filter). I ran about 30km yesterday on diesel and it seemed OK but a bit noisier than usual (if thats possible) which is usually air making the injectors rattle (I think) and it also makes the engine blow by heaps worse I`m assuming from uneven firing in the cylinders. Anyway both these symptoms disappear once the air leak is fixed. Last time it was the whizz bang Mallory pump sucking air and recirculating it around the loop. Might have to check it tomorrow...I am wondering if the injection pump can suck air under some circumstances, as there`s no evidence of air in any of the filters where I would expect it to get trapped between the Mallory and the injection pumps. Also all this section is positive, or a least zero pressure so oil should leak out, not air in....Can a bung internal seal allow air into the high pressure part of the injector pump? I think my pump is very similar to the bosch VE on a TDi, just made under licence by Denso. Jaysus its doing my nana a bit......

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Elliston SA
    Posts
    36
    OK sorry about the absence......Haven`t done anything major due to other crises but I did go for a long drive on diesel and it seemed to fix it up, but once back on oil with a new filter it wouldn`t start again the next morning. I`m pretty sure the fuel return is at less than normal rate and this is affecting the purge time as 5 km on diesel eliminates the starting problem. Question is, why is the fuel return slower?.....

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