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Thread: Hydrogen (browns gas) by electrolysis

  1. #11
    Tombie Guest
    I'd be most interested in the AFR readings...

    I'm guessing there's a significant impact in there.

    Where's the intake for the HHO taken from and where does it inject? Before or after the MAF meter?

    When not operating is there a valve closed on that circuit?

  2. #12
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    ITs all about technical data integrity...

    in this day and age providing enough data to at least support your claim is easy

    TPS, MAF, RPM and injector duration readings while on a dyno with a known load with the system on and off would quickly and cheaply put this to bed. hell even a well documented set of runs under consistent conditions with a dashcam pointing at a nanocom or similar would do the job.

    what was your assesment critera for the cleaner running burn and improved emissions? do you have the data to back it up or ere you just going off the colour of the pipe? since you didnt do the tests you must have some kind of a documented result you could easily copy and post up..

    beating the snake oil salesman principle is easy. provide all your plans and build tech details FOC... if someone can replicate it ad test it then it works and its wins all the way around, if they cant then you still dont meet the cirtera of snake oil seller because you gave away everything about it for free with the genuine self belief that it worked.bbbbbbbb

    Im still really intebrested to know how dry cell electrolysis works

    and Dont count on EX military weapons tech buying you much credit, I know weapons techs that I wouldnt trust to check the tyre pressure on a cent.

    all that aside, this is where the fun starts..

    IF

    Quote Originally Posted by Boblofty View Post
    I am not trying to prove to anyone this works
    then why post

    Quote Originally Posted by Boblofty View Post
    Does HHO work/assist in any way....the answer is categorically yes. There are many stories circulating on the net and some very outrageous claims being made...let me tell of my experience over a number of years.
    and follow up with

    Quote Originally Posted by Boblofty View Post

    I live in Canberra and if you are ever down this way, I would be more than happy to show you the system and chat over a coffee, my shout.
    Cheers Bob
    and just by the by, I am one of the techos, whats your ex weaps guys experience in?
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blknight.aus View Post
    ITs all about technical data integrity...

    in this day and age providing enough data to at least support your claim is easy

    TPS, MAF, RPM and injector duration readings while on a dyno with a known load with the system on and off would quickly and cheaply put this to bed. hell even a well documented set of runs under consistent conditions with a dashcam pointing at a nanocom or similar would do the job.

    what was your assesment critera for the cleaner running burn and improved emissions? do you have the data to back it up or ere you just going off the colour of the pipe? since you didnt do the tests you must have some kind of a documented result you could easily copy and post up..

    beating the snake oil salesman principle is easy. provide all your plans and build tech details FOC... if someone can replicate it ad test it then it works and its wins all the way around, if they cant then you still dont meet the cirtera of snake oil seller because you gave away everything about it for free with the genuine self belief that it worked.bbbbbbbb

    Im still really intebrested to know how dry cell electrolysis works

    and Dont count on EX military weapons tech buying you much credit, I know weapons techs that I wouldnt trust to check the tyre pressure on a cent.

    all that aside, this is where the fun starts..

    IF



    then why post



    and follow up with



    and just by the by, I am one of the techos, whats your ex weaps guys experience in?
    Dave.... I have been away for a week so a late reply.
    For info, broadly I have 4 trades and was trained for and worked on (essentially) Naval weapons systems (hardware and control) including underwater and all of the ancillary equipment associated with such systems. Additionally power generation, distribution and all electrical equipment in later years fell to guys with my training.
    My PWM designer and co-hort in these 'experiments" joined the Navy with me and had similar training....he went on to head up the weapons systems workshop in Garden Island and was (probably) one of the best US weapons systems guys of his era. He actually went on from that to work part time on performance cars designing cams etc with a good friend in Brisbane.
    I hope that sort of background would speak well for our skills and knowledge....but then, who can tell.

    In answer to other questions/comments, a dry cell is the terminology (and I didn't name it) given to a system that doesn't have the plates in the reservoir, instead the cell is separate and the water is circulated by a small pump (in my case about 5l/min) which brings both the gas and water back to the reservoir where the gas is drawn off for the intake.
    For technical data, I don't have the equipment for testing and recording and really have no desire to do so. The exhaust emissions figures were taken by my (then) RR mechanic when he was doing a service. He did them out of curiosity (I guess) and simply passed the comment on to me.

    Insofar as my comments regarding efficacy of such a system, nothing more than anecdotal information was offered. My consumption of fuel changed for the better and the engine ran smoother and quieter. End of story...and I am happy to do some before and after pics of the instrument panel next time I go on a long trip. (a week away - Canberra to Brisbane and return)
    With an original engine and 270,00kms on the clock that might offer some 'comfort'.

    And lastly, if anyone has the desire to test my vehicle, then feel free to ask.
    At the end of the day I really don't care if anyone believes it or not, the entire thing was put out there to say....hey guys, I tried this and here are my experiences and views....nothing more.

    Cheers Bob

  4. #14
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    Further to my message above where I offered to post some pics after the next long trip...I now have pics of the trip meter, consumption figures etc and am either happy to post the pics or simply relay the data.
    If anyone is interested just ask.
    Cheers Bob

  5. #15
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    Fair warning.

    I will be all over the integrity of your data like a fat kid on a cupcake.

    I personally hope that your data meets integrity and proves what you claim


    Give it the whole 9 yards and post it all up, leave nothing out
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  6. #16
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    Well guys, the pics attached (hopefully they have attached) show nothing more than the results as 'logged' by the computer on the vehicle.
    For info, the vehicle is a HSE P38 Range Rover, last of the P38's, (Build Dec 2001). It has some 280,000 kms on the clock, original engine with no mods other than the hydrogen cell, no rebuild work (not even head work) original spark plug leads and the plugs have been there for about 130,000kms.
    The trip involved a fast run from Canberra to Port Macquarie (up the M7 and Pennant Hills road) to the fuel station at Maccas just off the highway.
    It was here that the first series of pics were taken.
    The vehicle had 2 pob, back seats down and plenty of gear including my golf clubs but not an overly heavy load. A/C on auto. Moderate traffic for the entire distance with some road works but no forced stops.
    Pic 1....ODO reads 280118.0 total distance on the vehicle and 657.2 trip on the day starting with a full tank.
    Pic 2....indicates less than 80kms in the tank
    Pic 3....indicates Average consumption 12.5L/100km
    Pic 4....average speed 102km/hr.
    Pic 5.....confirms the trip to be 657.2km.

    The following 3 pics (posted in the next message) show the total for the round trip to be 3304.9kms at an average speed of 68km/hr and average fuel consumption of 13.5L/100km.

    From Port Macquarie we traveled to the Tweed and the Gold Coast, spent 10 days in that area just day to day running, a one way trip to Coffs and a week in that area then a one way trip to Port Macquarie for another week and back to Canberra.

    All in all I think a good combined fuel usage cycle.
    Now I offer nothing more in the way of technical data.....this is it, a real life example of the consumption of the vehicle with a browns gas cell. (hydrogen).

    It may or may not be better than anyone else gets but for what it is worth, it is an improvement for me over the standard fuel consumption.
    Have a good day.
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #17
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    To add to the post above, attached are the remainder of the pics I mentioned.
    Cheers
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #18
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    Sorry...

    for overall data integrity for proof of what you claim, Fail.

    However. Its an acceptable start.

    I'm prepared to accept that as a standard of evidence for key elements of your baseline info. But you need to back the data up with multiple runs of the same route and then again with the HHO stuff disabled ideally as interspersed runs.

    you also need to include additional info specifically accurately totaled fuel consumption figures in terms of how much fuel your tipping into the tank to fill it to the top of the filler neck. weights and driving conditions. There are far too many vagaries in your operating condition statements for your trip info to be meaningful so this needs to be refined.

    some very brief googling with no real effort just going as far as the detail blurb shows that the p38s are capable of breaking into the 22 mpg range with some claims getting as far as 28mpg I'm going to presume that the 22 mpg is UK numbers and 28 is an American number which comes out at just over 10l/100 and that that number is most likely the highway cycle in ideal driving conditions. Given your operating speed and conditions (which seem to be more favorable to good fuel economy than the test standard) I'd suggest that its not unreasonable to presume that your city driving technique is also somewhat better than the standard used for calculating the city cycle and such will be giving you lower operating consumptions than advertised.

    I'll counter your claim based on your vehicle is operating in the top 1/3rd of a nominal range of fuel consumption averages for your vehicle type.

    One trip in randomish conditions does not proof make. It does provide that you have the ability to provide what counts as sufficient evidence

    This post was typed before the second round of photos showed up. if they provide addtional suitable details I'll either amnend this post or make another correcting this one.

    and heres the correction...

    not that impressive. from his first set of numbers only

    head to http://www.lrfaq.org/RR/TechnicalInfo.html once there roll down to the fuel consumptions section.

    if it was the last of the p38s Im going to assume it was a 4.6 Im also going to state its an auto (says p in the dashpic) heres the cut and paste of the tables for fuel consumption. and I added his numbers in blue

    56mph is 90KPH
    75mph is 120kph
    102KPH is 63.5mph

    FUEL CONSUMPTION
    4.6 V8 Automatic mpg L/100 km
    Urban cycle 12.8 22.1
    Constant 56 mph 24.8 11.4
    his avg 63.5 mph 22.6 12.5 (presumed constant just to make this number easy to interpret.
    Constant 75 mph 20.1 14.1



    The other engine and auto options are listed below incase he has one of these but the numbers work less in favor.


    4.0 V8 Automatic mpg L/100 km
    Urban cycle 14.0 20.2
    Constant 56 mph 26.8 10.6
    Constant 75 mph 20.2 14.0

    4.0 V8 Manual mpg L/100km
    Urban cycle 15.2 18.6
    Constant 56 mph 27.2 10.4
    Constant 75 mph 21.0 13.5

    The running details for the overall run is not detailed enough for anything meaningful to be made of it.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  9. #19
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    p38arover is offline Major part of the heart and soul of AULRO.com
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    When I had a house at Coffs Harbour (550km away), I'd regularly average 13.5l/100km for the trip in my 4.6 HSE P38A. I used to be surprised how it was better than my 4.6 RRC
    Ron B.
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  10. #20
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    Browns Gas

    Thanks for this post Bob there seams to be a lot of very hard to convince people on this site am watching this post with great interest.
    Brad.

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