Biodiesel

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Originally Posted by mcrover

The quality (as with all fuels in OZ) of Bio in europe is meant to be far better than what we are seeing over here AT THE MOMENT (I will state in capitals as to not upset anyone):D

The quality control and the consistancy is not up to scratch as yet but it will get there ......

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You haven't upset me, but I'd be curious to know where you get the info that Aust Bio isn't up to scratch?

In order to qualify for the Federal Gov's 38c fuel rebate, a Biodiesel producer MUST test each batch to ensure that it meets or exceeds the standards. Commercially produced biodiesel fuel REGURLARLY EXCEEDS these standards by a significant margin, indeed exceeds the quality of petro-Diesel.

Certain independant fuel resellers like Volume Plus have had situations where poor quality fuel is sold through their bowsers, but they have been plagued by that problem long before they started blending Bio. Where they source their fuel from is something they do not reveal, nor can they supply any data as to the quality of their fuel. Poor fuel handling and cutting with dubious additives is a problem that seems to belong to some independant chains, and they often won't stand by the quality of the fuel they sell.

Hi all,

Been toying with Bio since I bought my TD5 disco 4 years ago... if I lived in a house I'd have a go. Thinking the Body Corporate for my unit might have something to say about drums of Methanol on the balcony...? :D

Anyway, interesting discussion, obviously some experience here. Few random links I found on my travels around the internet, for background reading if anyone's interested.

The first explains the Viton question (under "Biodiesel and your vehicle"), used in answer to Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel introduced in mid-90's in Europe.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/
http://www.ebony-solutions.co.uk/
http://www.greenfuels.co.uk/
http://www.biodiesel.org.au/
http://www.goldenfuels.com/

Some are commercial, but I hope 'tis of interest anyway...

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

sure...

Yes at normal temps and pressures (lets say TDI300 engines) 100% pure and correctly refined bio IS the better diesel in all respects full stop end of story on that count.

But... When you step out of the hypotetical perfect world Bio Aint Bio when its got water suspended in it that hasnt been dried out, ethers still in solution that havent been washed out and imperfections in the oil from using burnt oil.

Now in a normal situation low to medium pressure injectors (relatively speaking here ALL injection is high pressure) the bio is great, and the contaminants arent a problem But once you switch over to the High pressure injectors (21K+ psi) you start to run into problems.

First off the impurities cause little Islands in the oil between the moving part and the oil is expelled from the high points (lateral experiment;squeeze your thumb and forefinger together really really hard and put it in water, pull out, dry hand and when you pull your fingers apart the middle of the pressed together parts should be dry) that lack of lube causes problems. The knock on effect of this is if these contaminates causes an injector to fail to seat you will get dribbley injector or even worse a fail to close letting residual fuel pressure drain into the combustion chamber potentially hydraulicing the engine (not to bad for pots 1-4 but #5 doesnt have a glow plug you can pull out to vent it and I bet it will be the #5 that does it just to annoy you)

Secondly the bio can attack some seals and the lubricity of it when its warm and under just a little pressure means it can leak past some seals that dino diesel just wouldnt have, not so much of a problem on a TDI as the injection pump is only at about 15psi or so max and the entire fuel system is external to the engineso you can see the problem and fix the leaks.... On a TD% however about 50% of your fuel system is internal to the engine, get one of them leaking and your lube oil gets diluted with fuel. That'll kill you in one of 2 ways, by diluting the lube oil to the point that the engine siezes OR by leaking out the turbo seal/ venting out the crankcase ventilation into the inlet causing a run away (havent heard of that one yet but on paper its plausable)

The last way is with the effeciency with which Bio cleans. All the crud that was happilly adhered to the internals of your fuel system will no longer be so and you can get all of the problems from the first point but more likely will be the death of the fuel pump from having to pump the equivelent of gravel..


All that said...

I know of people who have run their TD5 on bio and are still doing so with no problems that people running dino arent having. But at $1700 odd for an injector, $1k for a pump, who knows how much to redo the head if it gets stuffed and how much? for a new donk if you get a run away. Bios not for me in the TD5...

It might be doable in the new ford donk But I havent yet specked that one out and dont own one so Im not likely to....

I do know that the old 2.25 runs just fine on dewatered and filterd cooking oil. did that in townsville for about 2 months as an experiment.

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Sorry, do you mean you used straight vege oil in your tank? I have a td5 and was hoping to be able to convert it to a two tank system to run svo. Do you know of anyone who has tried that?
Kim

yes Ive run a rover on plain old whatever the hell the local chip shop was using at the time that I got their waste oil from them

it WASNT a td5 it was an old 2.25 diesel engine, the one that now resides in kermit.

Has anyone ever seen a twin tank system for straight vege oil fitted to a td5?

Hi Kim
The general idea is.
WITH A TD5 STICK TO DINO DIESEL!!!!!!
Dont even touch bio-diesel from the servo!!!!
Old deisels yep,not modern electronic diesels,the injectors dont enjoy chewing on a bit of old flake or burnt chip.
They need good quality dino diesel!!!
Andrew

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Originally Posted by Kimbrover

Has anyone ever seen a twin tank system for straight vege oil fitted to a td5?

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Yes I have and from last account the car was still going very strong, I'm not doing it to my TD5 though

Hey people just thought that I would put a little bit of a different spin on things. I am a High Pressure Water Blaster! This means that I deal with water pressure upwards of 1000bar and peaking at just over 2500bar...which is in excess of 35,000psi. I can tell you that at 1700bar and over water does compress...random fact. But what my point is, is that in order to achieve these high levels of pressure than the opening (or nozzels) that we use is in the point of a mm. That means that on a three nozzel rotor cleaning head I would run (depending on the pump) I need to run three .035 of a mm nozzle. Now I also need a 1 micron filter on my pump, and there is no way i would be running bio in any common rail diesel!!!!

FYI -

There is a report from the CSIRO available from:

Caltex - Welcome (sorry, no other reference)
or
The greenhouse and air quality emissions of biodiesel blends in Australia (Publication - Technical)

from that report: (ripped without permission, but acknowledgements to CSIRO)

"The research concludes that using pure biodiesel or blending biodiesel with standard fuel can reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the transport sector.
The greenhouse gas savings do however depend on the feedstock used to produce the biodiesel.
The highest savings are obtained by replacing base diesel with biodiesel from used cooking oil."


makes interesting reading..



Caltex use a 2% blend of biodiesel in their "New Generation Diesel"..
regards,
Paul.

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Originally Posted by Kimbrover

Has anyone ever seen a twin tank system for straight vege oil fitted to a td5?

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People selling the kit...

ATG Vegetable Oil Kit - Vegetable Oil Conversion for Diesel Vehicles

They quote a TD5... but, of course, they are selling the kit!! I have had no contact with them; just found them on my Bio web-browsing travels...