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G'day Folks :)
Being the owner of a 85 RRC fitted with a York compressor which needs re-gassing,it would have originally had R12 in it,I have been told that I can use R134a in it with a change of oil,fittings and reciever/drier,and seeing that some of you on this thread know what you are talking about (air-con savvy) could you please advise my which way to go, or do I have to scrap the York and fit a Sandon SD709 I think, also which oil.
cheers
My Dad recently got his 89 r12 rangie topped with a "blended" gas by a local auto spark we know well. He was non committal about exactly what the gas is but it seems too be perfroming very well.
My $'s say it recovered and filtered R12 on its way too a second life. Considering the car is on its original Compressor and lines we can live with less than perfect gas:)
Just tried to reply, but it seems to have been lost in hyperspace...
My Chrysler Valiant had a factory R-12 system...and YORK compressor, kept us cool on middle fan speed on a day that melted the bitumen road..and left lots of it coating the inside of our wheel arches... Bonus sound=proofing!
Don't think the previous owner re-gassed it, and we certainly did'nt. Nor did it need it.
Likewise our 20 year old Mazda has its original R-12 and its tiny Sanden compressor, and is still more than adequate on the hottest day parked in the sun...
My 95 Classic is factory-fitted with R-134a and Im *NOT* impressed with it on a very hot day. Its going to get bang-gas on the first possible excuse.
My own approach would be to stick with the original or nearest equivalent or BETTER. Certainly would'nt want a less-efficient gas, like R-134a. Simply, your system was designed for R-12, NOT R-134a, and as the previous poster mentioned, 134 needs a larger condenser to give the same performance. -You don't have enough room to put the bigger one in....
Some links worth looking at...
GRIEVANCE DEBATE Greenhouse Gases
and: Good Environmental Choice Australia
Welcome To GreenFreeze Technology
and
Technical Product Information
Cynical & annoyed James from Perth, WA
The EH, a 95 Classic Vogue, now with working EAS, mediocre air-con, and (still) dead Cruise Control...
Would be nice (and give you Warm Fuzzy Greeeen feelings!) to think so, but more likely its a hydrocarbon-based gas, like Hychill HR-30, blend of R600a and R290 or something like that .. -The numbers are meant to confuse us. - Its succeeding.....
These gasses can be a lot cheaper (with their oils) than 134a, so I've been told...
Cheers,
James
its may well be HR-30, the actual make up of gas isn a concern too me but it could well be a bonus too R12 user rather than the 134a retrofit dramas
for what its worth the company that carried out the work starts with D and rhymes with Earings....:)
As I posted earlier, in my (Trade) opinion the better option is a 'drop in' refrigerant, assuming you can get one near as dammit the same ecficiency as R12. (I haven't had to do a retrofit here so frankly I don't know which ones are available here. I'll ask our suppliers this week).
In my experience almost all garages have less than zero refrigeration knowledge. I've had a few high volume discussions with muppets just bunging in more refrigerant without finding or fixing leaks.
It is illegal to vent refrigerant to atmosphere, so any leaks have to be fixed before a recharge.
And to the best of my knowledge it is illegal to use R12, full stop. It's fine as long as it's in the system. However you may not buy it, charge a system with it, re-use it etc. If you recover it from a system, it must be taken to a refrigeration wholesaler for safe destruction.
Geez I started something here.
Let me make clear that my aircon works perfectly on R134A , exactly as it did on R12.
To the enquirer about the oil. You don't have to worry about that,the aircon guy will have access to the correct oil. When the guy converted mine he just added a new type of synthetic that is compatable with the old oil, and seeing it has been going well since 2007 I believe it.
My high pressure pipe had quite a bit of extra stress as my fans died and I ran the aircon in 40+c for several weeks( only above say 60Kmh), so I believe its understandable that the pipe finally died, which started with the crimped ends leaking.
My aircon was still going but had lost 75% of gas. All the other pipes look OK and teh front seal showed no leaks with the flouro dye and the high and low pressures are good.
I reckon that is excellent after 19 years.
Regards Philip A
R12 cannot be imported into this country or manufactured here.It may be re used,recycled,or used if new stock,as long as this is done,as with all other refrigerants,by qualified personnel,and as per current regulations & guidelines.It can also be sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratel10mm
There are many myths about regulations relating to R12,as well as other phased out refrigerants,such as R502,R500etc
And R22 is next on the hit list,it has recently been banned in other countries.
I contacted the Qld branch of ARC(Australian Refrigeration Council) about this recently.
Thanks Paul, I'll look into that. I know R11 is still allowed if it's from pre-ban existing site stock, so it wouldn't surprise me to find a similar exemption for R12.
Although I thought this country had signed the Montreal Protocol. Seeing as we lead the world in Refrigeration & A/C & all. ;) :P
Not that it seems to bother the Yanks either.
Seems to me that all the really good refrigerants were banned due to greenhouse effects as I came into the industry, to be replaced with less efficient, more expensive refrigerants.
Always distrusted R134a as a replacement in large systems. Never known it to stay put. The oil eats PTFE, the gas molecules are smaller so you find there are micro leaks that didn't exis with the original gas, 0 ODP but 4 times the TEWI, etc.
And you wanna see what this R410a stuff is like:mad:
Running at 120/140psi back pressure,400/450 psi HP.
Good on you Greenies,or whoever they are ,you have done it again:(