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Thread: Range Rover SSE

  1. #1
    RichardK is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Range Rover SSE

    I had the opportunity to inspect a 1994 Range Rover SSE this week, it was in immaculate condition although the seller wants what I think is absolute top price.
    My question is, does anybody know the history of an SSE model? Other than colour coded front and rear bumpers it all looks the same as a Vogue pre soft dash model.
    Anyone got ideas on value?
    RichardK

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  2. #2
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    I'm pretty sure that apart from the body kit, it's just a standard Vogue SE. I know there weren't too many sold here; I've heard 50 or so.
    I also have a feeling the body kit was fitted locally (Australia).

    Value wise, just the same as a Vogue SE, maybe slightly more for rarity but I doubt it.
    You could bargain them down a bit by saying that the body kit parts might be unavilable in the event of an accident :wink: .
    Scott

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    I agree the Vogue SE looks the same. Nice car. I don't think they're worth the money being asked. The LSE would be my pick. They have the same wheel base as the ser 2 RR. Bigger motor and more room in the back seat. The extra room in the back seat makes a difference for passengers. I've only see one that was close to being reasonably priced, about $18000. It was gone. Not that I could have bought it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardK View Post
    I had the opportunity to inspect a 1994 Range Rover SSE this week, it was in immaculate condition although the seller wants what I think is absolute top price.
    My question is, does anybody know the history of an SSE model? Other than colour coded front and rear bumpers it all looks the same as a Vogue pre soft dash model.
    Anyone got ideas on value?
    I've been researching into the SSE model recently as I believe my vehicle is one of these. Thankfully my RRC came with the original purchase information still in the log book so I was able to contact the original dealer (who is still in business). What I now believe from gathering as much information as I can find is that the RRC Vogue SSE was an Australian only variant of a standard MY 1993 Vogue SE, and released on the Australian market in March 1994. I also do not believe it to be an official "model", simply an Australian market variant with optional extras as standard. What I suspect occurred is that Rover Australia tricked up some of their last remaining stock of the '93 Vogue SE with some additional options as standard to help shift them in early 1994 before the Soft Dash hit the market. I've also found that the insurance companies do not have Vogue SSE listed as a model option for either 1993 or 1994, which further supports the view that it was probably a dealer generated version.
    From my research, I believe the only differences to a normal Vogue SE are; the body kit (which I'm pretty sure is a Brooklands bodykit from the UK), the metallic body paint, a double coach line pin-stripe down the side, 5 spoke silver alloys, a burled walnut insert in the shift lever, and Connolly leather power seats as standard, and lastly, "SSE" replacing the SE on the tailgate badge. As most of you will be aware, all of these alterations were able to be sourced as optional extras to a standard SE at the time, an approach that was confirmed when I spoke to the original dealer. This theory I think is further confirmed in that the "SSE" badging on the tailgate is a slightly different font to the "Vogue" lettering immediately to the left of it, and I strongly suspect this badge was added by Rover Australia. I've confirmed this badge styling difference not only on my vehicle, but on two others that I have seen for sale over the past couple of years.
    Attached is a copy of a Vogue SSE brochure that I found on the Rover P-6 website.
    If anyone has any further information to add, please let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    to help shift them in early 1994
    It didn't work too well as most SSEs ended up as Rover Australia fleet cars.
    Scott

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    If you have a penchant for poorly fitted bolt-on body kit parts, then I'm also guessing you'd prefer to throw cash at a sows ear in order to turn it into a silk purse, rather than buy the silk purse.

    If you already have a collection of low-mileage RRC's and you need to add a 'local variant' to your collection, then I could say a purchase at an exhorbitant price may be the unavoidable consequence of a congenital disease known as LROS (Land Rover Owner Syndrome).

    It's a "Vogue with implants".... and nothing too special. Implants aren't "worth extra", they usually come with "warranty issues" So there is some logic in there somewhere to decrypt.

    I think I agree with the already expressed sentiments about an LSE as being the "golden egg" variant if you can't afford an original condition Suffix A.

    I'd be chasing "one with the lot". either a super early 2 door or the very last of the LWB 4 doors, especially if I were looking to have any future "ROI" *coughnowayinhellcough*

    It's a land rover. It's guaranteed to rust and leave you stranded. So of course you'll pay extra for the privelege.

    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  7. #7
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    While it may look (and well be) like just a body kit on a Range Rover, it is one of the rarer variants of late model RRCs in Australia. Those in the know will appreciate it for what it is.
    I thought they looked good when they were new & I last saw a white one about 10 years ago in Canberra & thought it still looked great.
    Scott

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    I agree that the few differences that come with the SSE variant don't support any huge price premium over a standard SE, as any of the differences could relatively easily be added separately if so desired.

    For my vehicle, I'm torn as to whether the body-kit will ultimately remain on my car, or whether I remove it and re-install standard RRC Vogue bumpers. I continuously find myself flicking between photos of SE's with the kit on and off, trying to work out which one I ultimately prefer.

    For the time being though I've decided to leave the bodykit on the car, so I've had it resprayed and adjusted to "fit" the vehicle as snugly as possible, which has helped improve the look of it a lot but up close it still looks like an after-market accessory. For the time being it looks like the bodykit will remain on the car for a while yet.

    I must admit though that I've already opted to swap out the five-spoke silver alloys for a set of colour-coded three-spokes. The five-spokes haven't been disposed of though and have just been retired to the back of the shed for the time being. The pin-stripe down the side was also removed as half of it had been already rubbed off anyway. So all I really have now is a standard Vogue SE with a colour-coded body kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse View Post
    While it may look (and well be) like just a body kit on a Range Rover, it is one of the rarer variants of late model RRCs in Australia. Those in the know will appreciate it for what it is.
    I thought they looked good when they were new & I last saw a white one about 10 years ago in Canberra & thought it still looked great.
    I'm not disputing that at all -

    This is the area where "expectations of potential collectability and rarity" versus "delusional minority of automotive investors" meet.

    It's not a Ferrari Daytona 365 GTB/4 shooting brake of the Scuderia world. It's not even remotely like the Miura SV of the Ferruci Lamborghini afficionardo club.... not even the FF in the Jensen Interceptor owners club vehicle register.

    We're talking about an otherwise generic vehicle with colour coded bolt-on fibreglass "performance parts"

    The perception of collectability value is highly overinflated in this case.

    It's not about "is it nice to look at" or "It's an obscure Range Rover" - beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all.

    The confronting reality is that there is no serious justification for asking a seriously large premium over the Vogue SE, for those bolt-on colour coded parts.

    In this case, I would draw comparison to the Quadramotive Schuler FF5000.
    A vehicle with a far more serious "Performance upgrade" and a better performing transfer case than the BWVC (and certainly from all accounts more reliable).

    Is it worth a tremendous premium? not really. In fact it's seemingly worth less than regular mainstream Range Rovers - if you reflect on recent prices.
    and the alleged "Astute" Range Rover collector would see an HDT-engined schuler FF5000 RRC as something worth far more, and certainly revel in the caché that is associated with period-HDT.

    Which is why the LSE comes back as being the "golden egg"

    1. It IS historically regarded by experienced RRC owners as being "the best" model and it is certainly the most coveted by RRC owners. All this despite the huge disparity between condition, originality and asking price....

    2. Who cares about the nuances of RRC's??? only those of us who have actually owned them.

    This is a sticky area.

    I'm not deliberately trying to step on peoples ego's here, but sometimes a serious dose of reality is required to bring delusional ownership into contrast.

    There are people who own cars to collect, create interest and generate revenue for themselves by 'creating a story' - i.e. significant embellishment of the truth.
    There are owners who enjoy the experience, and care for their vehicle and maintain it to a high conditional standard. These are the 'real' owners who have a significant deep knowledge of the vehicles and their shortcomings, and are not afraid to share a real ownership experience.

    So, contextually.... Bolt on parts. $tiny premium
    Mechanical originality and condition $$$$$ huge premium - but only when it can be validated through original receipts and historical evidence.

    Difference in value between a vehicle with the documented history and one without? oh an easy 20-30K. yep...
    Because a poorly maintained one is not worth much more than scrap to an 'educated' buyer.
    A fool and his money are soon parted though...
    Seems obvious why some go to extraordinary lengths to forge a history, right?

    This is why fellow owners do their best to 'weed out' less-than-scrupulous sellers and educate potential buyers, so they 1; don't fall into a financial trap- and 2; understand that there is a price premium that goes over and above any kind of modern vehicle ownership, to keep these little things running.

    It's a case of only an OWNER will know the real truth, and those of us who have seen these things change hands dozens of times, know the silk purses from the sows ears.

    Now that's a little further from an SSE RRC example, but it applies nonetheless to the vehicle condition, mileage, originality and history.

    It's worth what "general RRC" fetch in terms of price premium for originality and condition, plus a small premium for the bolt-on fibreglass.
    It's not worth more than an LSE of equivalent condition, and it's not worth a huge premium over and above the regular 1993 model range vehicles, if condition is equal.

    Which is exactly what we see in all modern day "special models" from manufacturers.
    Have a look at the depreciation on a modern Range Rover, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Porsche... Some are ridiculous, most are quite traumatizing.

    Note how the 'special models' depreciate and lose just as much value as the mainstream models. Where the model lineup is more "clouded" with vehicle model acronyms, expect the value to be even worse than it otherwise could be.

    Toyota, Honda, Mazda - three great examples of the new model badge-engineered price inflation algorithm. Where are they after 5 years? nowhere.

    after 30 or 40 years, where do you expect any of them to be?

    In the crusher of course. Recycled into outdoor furniture or some kind of pot metal kitchen appliance.

    The RRC will still have a dedicated loyal enthusiast niche... but if you are at the point where a scratch on your newly-acquired SSE will devalue it by 5K, then you have to ask yourself why you paid that extra money in the first place...

    The market is about to be slammed with vehicles due to recession and unemployment.
    Like it or not, the current pandemic influence on the economy is far broader than the small-minded-australian anti-vaxxer protestor. It's global.
    That also means that your car in your driveway now, is worth less than you thought.
    You might financially recover in 10 years time, if you don't die from something else sooner.

    Application of rationale and logic to a vehicle purchase is not like buying a house. maintaining objectivity and not getting caught up in emotional nuance is key.
    in 90% of cases these vehicles will be worth nothing. They may be worth value as a curiosity one day, like all things kitsch.
    no real financial value, but an object of interest.

    If you can see through the fog of "delusional collector" syndrome that is.

    I get it though.

    The bottom line is the price justification needs to be logical and 'beyond proof'.

    IMO, if one paid more than a $1500 premium over and above a similar year model RRC in the same condition, then you'd have to ask yourself why.

    Also, what happens if someone who owns a really average condition one, decides to copy the fibreglass bits and make cheap bodykits in asia and sell it globally...
    There goes any preceived value... because I can buy bolt-on parts for $500 and make it look the same.

    Remember, this is where Holden and Ford were back in the mid 1980's with commodes and falchoons. factory bolt-on bits to grab extra cash from a buyer who thought they could pass off their SS or ESP as being a Group C homologation special... when nothing could be further from the truth.

    I'm suggesting that potential buyers adopt a philosophy of "liberal application of a dose of reality" to any purchase.

    It's necessary, and should at least reflect a more realistic value, instead of the artificially inflated ego-driven "niche collector" price.
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  10. #10
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    That post deserves an award of some sort..

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