Ali radiator opinions

**DoubleChevron** · 27th November 2015, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mercguy

I'll just say this.

You can't 'fix' a plastic tank alloy core radiator. They are throwaways. Once they leak they are kaput. Might want to think about this if you're heading bush.

I had a new OEM Behr/Hella radiator put in my 560SL in 2008 to replace an unknown quantity. I hardly drive the car... maybe max 3-5000km per year.
It's radiator has ABS tanks crimped to an alloy core. (Mercedes have been using these since the early 80's).
Always used Genuine MB coolant etc. ran perfectly fine. Never an issue.
Earlier this year, I went to move the SL from one side of the garage to the other. started it, warmed it up, reversed out.... COOLANT PUDDLE.... wtf?

Closer investigation showed that the oring which seals the alloy core to the plastic tank (crimped on) was leaking. I was thinking, oh probably a radiator hose clamp, or something like that, but no sireee...

what to do? I ring a few places... they all say "Toss it in the bin - it can't have tanks welded to it, or the oring replaced".

I price a New radiator - from MB is over $2200. the same OEM radiator from parts guy is $780. I think to myself.... what a wonderful world of ripoff merchants we have in this country.

Lucky for me though, I already had a second, as I had purchased it at the same time I purchased the other one - it was destined for another vehicle project, which thankfully did not eventuate!

I kept the old leaky radiator. I will be having one fabricated to match this one, but with alloy side tanks..

Personally I prefer brass tanks and copper cores, as they are roadside repairable with a soldering iron, or in a bush mechanics case, and old car battery and a fire to melt the lead, however in the interests of maintaining the correct metallurgical content in the cooling system, I'll have an alloy one fabricated.

Interesting that you mention only 2 cores..... the Behr radiator has 3 row, offset core.... I was told by the radiator guy (who also does huge industrial stuff) that the efficiency from multiple cores is not from an increase in fluid carrying volume or fin area, but in the ofsetting of the cores, so that only one core receives the cool air from the outside. Parallel cores are a total waste of time. He suggested that a 4 row offset narrow core would be the most efficient for my application, but the core itself would be ridiculously expensive, so stick with the 3 core. The difference? apparently the 3 row offset core is 80% (yes that is right) more efficient than the parallel row cored radiator.

food for thought. Please let us know how your alloy tank version holds up and what the quality is like.

Take the leaky one to your local radiator place. They'll be able to make you a new radiator with brass tanks for less than the price of a throw-away no doubt. They just need the mounts and hose dimensions from your existing throw-away unit.

My Rangie has had a new standard standard radiator (ie: not the throw-away junk) fitted prior to me purchasing it. It appears to have tremendous cooling capacity. Even towing through mountain ranges the coolant temperature never got over 75degrees (the aftermarket gauge I have is downstream of the thermostat). The only time I've seen more than 85degree was sitting in melbourne traffic with the caravan on the back waiting for an accident to clear in 30+degree heat. It slowly crept up to 94 degrees .... rolling a few meters at walking pace introduced enough air flow to bring it back to 90 degrees ...

ie: the clutch fan is a **** of a thing. IT works perfectly except for when the engine is idling in traffic. The factory temperature gauge is also not worth a pinch of ****. It shows exaclty the same reading at 40degrees and 95degrees.... Talk about false confidence. The ****ty aftermarket gauges I've fitted are worth there weight in gold. You can see exactly what is going on.

Do all clutch fans not move enough air at 800rpm when idling in traffic unable to move ?

seeya,
Shane L.

**Ovadahill** · 27th November 2015, 10:24 AM

I am currently running a fenix all alloy radiator. Been using for about 12 months, no problem so far. Plus their service is good.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

**superquag** · 27th November 2015, 05:54 PM

Mercguy... don't I know it... just had to replace the Wife's Magna radiator.. Plastic cracked through near the radiator cap.
In previous vehicles, I've had similar.... plastic seems to rot with age/use and chemically break down...
And yes, have had one that leaked around the crimping seal, though I suspect the plastic was cracking under the crimps.

Beauty of an all-metal (alloy) unit is.... if the welds crack, then at least one can find a more competant welder to fix it, or 'Instant resin magic stuff'. NOTHING sticks to the plastic....

rovernutter · 27th November 2015, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Even towing through mountain ranges the coolant temperature never got over 75degrees (the aftermarket gauge I have is downstream of the thermostat). The only time I've seen more than 85degree was sitting in melbourne traffic with the caravan on the back waiting for an accident to clear in 30+degree heat. It slowly crept up to 94 degrees .... rolling a few meters at walking pace introduced enough air flow to bring it back to 90 degrees ...
Shane L.

That would be a worry to me. The EFI system thinks that anything below 80C means that the motor is still warming up and adds extra fuel. Anything below 75C increases engine wear significantly. It would seem that you have an incorrect rated thermostat in it.

**DoubleChevron** · 28th November 2015, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by rovernutter

That would be a worry to me. The EFI system thinks that anything below 80C means that the motor is still warming up and adds extra fuel. Anything below 75C increases engine wear significantly. It would seem that you have an incorrect rated thermostat in it.

The sensor is downstream of the (brand new) thermostat. It seems to have enough cooling capacity that the thermostat will be partially closed most of the time. I guess a good check would be to attach the temp sender to the back of the water pump and see what temperatures are like there (it's current tied to the top radiator hose). If you look the factory dash temp sender is also the wrong side of the thermostat! It doesn't matter as it's useless and lies either way

seeya,
Shane L.

rovernutter · 28th November 2015, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

If you look the factory dash temp sender is also the wrong side of the thermostat! It doesn't matter as it's useless and lies either way

It does not really matter what the temp is on the radiator side of the thermostat. You want to monitor the running temp of the motor. This is the motor side of the thermostat. Your temp gauge would not even give a reading until the thermostat opens, which could be some time after you start the motor. As the thermostat will usually only be slightly open when driving, the small amount of coolant coming from the motor is going to instantly go into a larger pool of cooler water once it passes through the thermostat.

A temp gauge on the return hose from the radiator to the motor may give some useful information in regard to how effective the radiator is cooling. However, I really can't see much useful information coming from one between the thermostat and radiator.

**DoubleChevron** · 28th November 2015, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by rovernutter

It does not really matter what the temp is on the radiator side of the thermostat. You want to monitor the running temp of the motor. This is the motor side of the thermostat. Your temp gauge would not even give a reading until the thermostat opens, which could be some time after you start the motor. As the thermostat will usually only be slightly open when driving, the small amount of coolant coming from the motor is going to instantly go into a larger pool of cooler water once it passes through the thermostat.

A temp gauge on the return hose from the radiator to the motor may give some useful information in regard to how effective the radiator is cooling. However, I really can't see much useful information coming from one between the thermostat and radiator.

That is where the factory temperature sender is if you look ... The wrong side of the thermostat

rovernutter · 28th November 2015, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

That is where the factory temperature sender is if you look ... The wrong side of the thermostat

I am not sure what you refer to as the wrong side.

The temp gauge and EFI ECU temp senders are in the intake manifold on the engine side of the thermostat. This is where they need to be to motor the temp of the motor. There is a 2 wire switch mounted on the thermostat housing on the radiator side of the thermostat. But this is just a temp switch that activates the air-con thermo fans when the water temp get above 100C. As the thermostat will be fully open at this stage, it does not matter that it is on the radiator side of the thermostat. This were I run the switch to my main thermo fans as well.

**DoubleChevron** · 28th November 2015, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by rovernutter

I am not sure what you refer to as the wrong side.

The temp gauge and EFI ECU temp senders are in the intake manifold on the engine side of the thermostat. This is where they need to be to motor the temp of the motor. There is a 2 wire switch mounted on the thermostat housing on the radiator side of the thermostat. But this is just a temp switch that activates the air-con thermo fans when the water temp get above 100C. As the thermostat will be fully open at this stage, it does not matter that it is on the radiator side of the thermostat. This were I run the switch to my main thermo fans as well.

Yeah that switch on the thermostat housing .... unplug it and your temperature gauge will stop working .............................................. It just give you false confidence either way and can be trusted, so no big deal

rovernutter · 28th November 2015, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Yeah that switch on the thermostat housing .... unplug it and your temperature gauge will stop working

That would be strange if it did as it only runs the thermo fans. Mine has not been connected for years and the temp gauge still works. If you switch the ignition on, pull off the plug, and then bridge the two contacts on the plug, you should hear the thermos fire up.

The temp gauge sender points towards the front of the intake manifold, on the front of the manifold near the driver's side head. The temp sender for the EFI system is on the passenger's side of the intake manifold near the front of it.

Thread: Ali radiator opinions

Thread Tools

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions