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Thread: Panels beaters for RRC required (Meccles et al) apply within

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    770
    Quote Originally Posted by workingonit View Post
    Currently I'm dealing with 4 areas of rust on an 84 RRC body and wondered if people could offer some advice on which welding technology and wire specification they have been using to make malleable welds. The aim is to produce malleable welds which can be hammered to relieve stress and distortion. Been watching Meccles work, by way of example.

    I'm particularly concerned about avoiding distortion of the box section channel that is associated with the RRC drivers side lower door frame. The box was originally made with folded sheet, the flap forming the footwell is substantially wider than the other three sides. Seems you can buy ready made replacement piece, but I don't think my rust issue warrants such a major bit of work ie re-attaching 'A' and 'B' pillars.

    What I've done so far is remove the rusted drivers floor area (the widest flap of the box so to speak) and exposed the remaining 3 sides of the channel, which look in good nick. Now I want to weld new floor paneling to what remains of the channel without distorting the channel.

    Because its box section with no hand access I've ground a high tensile bolt to have a small dolly head, which I can shove through slightly enlarged drain holes in the bottom of the channel - with support of the ground bolt head under the weld area I can then hammer the weld from the top, the outside. That's the theory.

    The second patch of rust is in the front passenger well, very small and easy.

    The third and forth rust patches are significant and are found where the rear passenger flooring meets the rear wheel arch, both left and right wheel arch and floor areas are affected, directly above the body to chassis mount point. The mount points in these areas also need replacing.

    I'm not overly worried about being able to fabricate the replacement pieces, more the sorting of wire specs and welding technology to use to create malleable welds.

    TIG and oxy/acet seem to be preferred for producing malleable welds. In a sense I'm looking for justification of using what I've got ie the MIG, but how.

    By way of background.

    I've done butt patchwork on old vehicle floors, tractor and machinery panels, using mix of oxy/acet and MIG, where weld hardness and bit of distortion could be ignored.

    Have a MIG, only ever using core flux wire. The machine can take gas. I'm working in the open breeze. Reading and from experience MIG welds (buttons in this case) cool too quickly and result in hard welds (alloy content influence as well), generally way stronger than parent material being welded. Reading the web, if persisting with MIG (not preferred choice by many panel people) then switch to solid core and argon shield. Trouble is the varying opinions. Some like 'mild steel wire', ER70S-6, ER70S-7, 'Easy Grind'. For every adherent of a wire type there is someone who has had a bad experience trying to hammer it and if they succeed it often splits. The adherents retort poor technique, poor cooling methods, manufacturer has changed composition, isn't made anymore etc. Local advice 'the boiler makers use lots of this MIG wire, so must be good (for panels)'. So can you really create good malleable welds, consistently, with MIG?

    Have stick but not suitable for really thin stuff.

    Have oxy/acet gear but gave bottles back to BOC years ago because of high rental costs. There are few businesses in Darwin that offer bottle swaps - one did then stopped because supplies from down south were erratic - one was, but now suspended sales until certification issues sorted, and who knows when - one with prices a bit over the top by comparison - Bunnings not certain, being evaluated, if 'yes' then in the new year.

    Don't have TIG, but not against getting one. Again, working in the open breeze.

    Prefer oxy/acet over TIG because can do other things, breeze not such a problem for oxy/acet, repairs not an issue up here (BOC MIG, got to go south!!), handy when remote from electricity, contamination less of a worry, can have a water supply at hand (misting hose) to stop old sealant fires without fear of electrocution. Could hire oxy/acet for the duration but really like to 'buy' bottles and to have a good heat source on hand all year (using small can MAPP at the moment).
    hi i have a friend who is selling hi 2 door chassi with gearbox and p76 motor rust free western qld jim
    Russell Rovers
    Series I Parts Specialists
    russellrovers AT gmail.com
    Phone 0428732001

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    1,201
    Thanks russellrovers. I'd think the vehicle would be of more interest to two door V8 enthusiasts. I'm installing a diesel into mine.

    Up here I can get operational (just) vehicles occasionally for $200 (or less) and deal with the rust for a fraction of what it would cost to get a vehicle in from Qld.

    I have four, and they are all rust free in the coachwork until you lift the carpet There's none in any of the chassis thankfully.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aus
    Posts
    2,120
    Quote Originally Posted by workingonit View Post
    Thanks russellrovers. I'd think the vehicle would be of more interest to two door V8 enthusiasts. I'm installing a diesel into mine.

    Up here I can get operational (just) vehicles occasionally for $200 (or less) and deal with the rust for a fraction of what it would cost to get a vehicle in from Qld.

    I have four, and they are all rust free in the coachwork until you lift the carpet There's none in any of the chassis thankfully.
    If it's just the floor, all you need is a MIG welder. you can either make the patch or buy a new floor depending on the extent of the rust. just make a bigger patch panel, screw it over the top and run a cutting wheel around it (cutting through the patch panel and floor). This will get you a perfect sized "patch" to weld into the floor.... If that makes sense

    this is how I did the floor in one of my old cars


    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/cit...ml#post1053524



    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.9V8 ... slugomatic
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Darwin
    Posts
    1,201
    Thanks for the links, always interesting to see how others have tackled these tasks - will read in depth later this evening.

    My RRC chassis is the earlier type, where much of the floor is screwed or rivetted together. At least I can carry parts of the RRC floor into the shed and out of the wind.

    But I'm still stuck outside with the part of the floor that forms the bottom of the door frame. Making patches is not so relevant for this bit as it is a case of a large piece of sheet metal being fully welded on three sides, the longest along the door frame. The forth side is spot welded to a bit of supporting angle iron, and to this you screw in the tunnel section, if that makes sense.

    Got to admit that I've already hacked out most of the front floor rust. Still got to deal with the rusted body mounts under the rear seat where the floor meets the rear wheel arch.

    I have an ulterior motive for 'going overboard or **** farting around' with this job as some might see it - I want to develop the welding skill to sensibly ensuring I can get soft welds that can be worked for distortion and do a good job on the door frame of the RRC, before I move onto a Toyota troopy that is a garden of rust blooms in the roof, window columns, floor, bonnet etc - most being openly visible and requiring good work. Getting patch technique right for the Toyota job is a must.

    If I understood them correctly, a number of restoration folk talk about creating a patch by cutting the hole, then overlap the patch, tack it a couple of places, then grind down the excess to make a very tight fitting patch, if not slightly in tension by the sounds of it. The emphasis was on tight fitting with no gap, tightness to help compensate for shrinkage, peening generally still required. The welder is set to penetrate the tight margin and not approached as a gappy margin filling in exercise, if that makes sense. I don't quite understand how they take an overlap piece and with some grinding somehow end up with it flush in the hole and very tight. Intending to find a youtube example.

    With the method described in your link there is at least a 1mm gap all round the patch ie 2mm if pushed to one side, but at least the process makes sense to me, compared to the other, above.

    As an aside I have a wrecked D1 stripped and the floor shape and pillars are identical to the RRC, except for the seat mount bosses and the fact it is all spot welded - shows how little the basic coach design has changed over all that time - would be a bugger to undo all those welds - tempting though to put the D1 floor into the RRC and have D1 seats - belts would require a work around.

    The kids also drive D1's that I bought cheapish (I forced the vehicles onto them, for free - don't think I would inflict the vehicles on them and expect them to pay for them). Their two vehicle had sodden floors last wet and so I expect to do some simpler panel patching there.

    I have a list of welding 'opportunites' as long as my arm...rusted chassis in series 3 stage 1...Corolla manifold...smashed tractor panels galore...ride on mower with dropped deck...quad bike with all plastics begging for metal replacement...make vehicle rotisserie...etc

    Oh, and the wife wants a steel pergola. But sorry dear, the RRC comes first.

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