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Thread: 92 rrc sort of resto

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercguy View Post
    Before you get too far into it, get yourself a copy of RAVE and make sure you swat up on it, particularly the ETM and the HVAC sections.

    These vehicles aren't as clear-cut to work on and you may find yourself going back and forth between subsequent MY's on RAVE to ascertain exactly what component is exactly where in your vehicle. Particularly with regards to the relays and fuses and harness routes for various options.

    The HVAC is not what I'd call overly complicated, but it is a huge PITA to replace the heater matrix, because of where it is located.
    If you are about "restoration" then only a 100% replacement is going to suit you. If you are about 'improvement' then absolutely consider the replacement of the HVAC setup with an aftermarket unit from vintageair or the like. Neither way will be cheap, I haven't found the best solution for me either. I have seen others use vintage air and some replace all the factory stuff.
    One thing I am certain of, is that the softdash redesign is a more efficient setup and a much better cabin layout for distribution etc. However it is such a huge undertaking to implement that it really would be easier to own a later model or buy a disco.

    Whichever way you decide, it's still important to have a copy of RAVE and a CO2 extinguisher to hand when working on these things, especially at the outset, so you reduce the frustration levels to the least 'explosive'. the RRC has interesting and inventive ways of turning gentile placid men into rage killers. turning the CO2 extinguisher on yourself can also be beneficial when you get hot under the collar
    You need to work on a modern plastic ****box if you think the Classic is difficult. The heater is a peice of cake ( coming from someone that spent 14hours changing the evaporter in a modern plastic ****box.... and yes, the factory "book" time to change one is about that too). They assemble the bloody dash unit outside the car and stick it in through the windscreen (or drop the body ontop of it) during manufacture. So pulling them out down the track is an exercise in frustration. A few hours in you'll be searching for a demo saw so you can just cut the bastard out.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  2. #12
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    I'll tell you why it's "difficult"

    Every little bit of plastic is so brittle, if you breathe on it, it breaks. Never mind the fact it's just a shoddily built britbox, the plastic is just absolute ****e.

    I've done heater cores in w140 Mercedes S class... nothing shocks me in terms of 'next level' difficulty. It's a dash-out job. 2 days labour for removal.

    If you want "stupidity" then the cabin filter in a 2012 Megane III RS will send you to the chiropractor for a week of rehabilitation. under the dash, behind the pedal box. Every 2 years or 40,000km. heh. 2 hours by the book just for the R&R of the cabin filter. and that 2 hours is if you're pro-level yoga instructor with a full factory renault training certificate. for a human it's about 3.5 hours... for a cabin filter..

    the w212 e63 cabin filter & biofilter matrix? 5 minutes... literally. Engineers at least learned something in 20 years...

    Rage Rover? (yes rage) lower dash out and er... where is the filter? oh it doesn't have one. What's all that disgusting crud on the blower unit and the evap core??? ohh rotting old filter gauze and hazmat environmental contaminants... oh nice. better get the asbestos dust extractor and some bleach...

    3 days later... oh need to take the dash upper section out to clean the rest of the "ductwork" heh what ductwork...

    Some of the things I found in a car that was well-maintained was quite disturbing.
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercguy View Post
    I'll tell you why it's "difficult"

    Every little bit of plastic is so brittle, if you breathe on it, it breaks. Never mind the fact it's just a shoddily built britbox, the plastic is just absolute ****e.

    I've done heater cores in w140 Mercedes S class... nothing shocks me in terms of 'next level' difficulty. It's a dash-out job. 2 days labour for removal.

    If you want "stupidity" then the cabin filter in a 2012 Megane III RS will send you to the chiropractor for a week of rehabilitation. under the dash, behind the pedal box. Every 2 years or 40,000km. heh. 2 hours by the book just for the R&R of the cabin filter. and that 2 hours is if you're pro-level yoga instructor with a full factory renault training certificate. for a human it's about 3.5 hours... for a cabin filter..

    the w212 e63 cabin filter & biofilter matrix? 5 minutes... literally. Engineers at least learned something in 20 years...

    Rage Rover? (yes rage) lower dash out and er... where is the filter? oh it doesn't have one. What's all that disgusting crud on the blower unit and the evap core??? ohh rotting old filter gauze and hazmat environmental contaminants... oh nice. better get the asbestos dust extractor and some bleach...

    3 days later... oh need to take the dash upper section out to clean the rest of the "ductwork" heh what ductwork...

    Some of the things I found in a car that was well-maintained was quite disturbing.
    Its still simple to work on ... the plastic is way better quality than the european stuff from the same era. They didn't use UV stablisers and most of the interiors in them died when new. I'm heard the story of someone that changed the dash top in there wifes Citroen BX when they were only a year or two old... a decent sized job.. and she went and parked the car in the sun at the supermarket on the same day ................. cracking the new one

    The BX we owned years ago, I just used to vacuum up all the broken plastic and ignore it. EVERYTHING broke. At least the range rover plastic hasn't deteriated, it was just to brittle when made (ie: is hasn't actually disintegrated in the sun ... it was just always crap quality).

    It took me two long days to change the evaporator in a Citroen XM. 15hours is the shop time ... and it took me every single bit of that. Never again (bloody plastic modern ****boxes) You could probably have a Range Rover classic heater core out in 2hours.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  4. #14
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    So my tacho reads zero till about 2000 rpm then it’ll jump to 2000. Sometimes it comes good and works in all rev ranges but most of the time it just ‘loses sensitivity’ and drops back to zero until I rev high. The plug behind the alternator seems to be making good contact and the wires seem ok.

    What should i be checking?

  5. #15
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    What should i be checking?
    The alternator.

    Regards Philip A

  6. #16
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    Alrighty, I think my fuel pump just gave up. Drove the car to somewhere fine. Let it sit for an hour. Got back into it and it started. Drove up an exit ramp and it cut out. Wouldn’t restart. Rollled it back to bottom and opened bonnet. Restarted and it started and idled fine. Drive up ramp and it cut out again. This time it wouldn’t start. I can hear the pump relay click but not the pump whirring.

    My inertia seitch doesnt look like the common button (if it’s what I’m thinking about) but it’s like a box with a plunger that protrudes from it. Tried that both ways. Still nothing. There’s power getting to the relay when I try it with a tester.

    On the fuel fuel pump itself there’s a 3 prong plug on the lid. Is that power for the pump or just the sender? I only get a very feint signal in the positive from there.

    I’d like to try and jump the pump to see if it is that but I’m not sure which wires to jump. Any help please? I’ve checked fuses under the seats too and they are all intact 73C8B053-C562-48D5-BA6C-8BC7BE3459B9.jpg


    Pic is of the lid.

  7. #17
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    Did you test power to the rear connector from the relay?

    Have you got a copy of RAVE yet.

    I sent you part of the 92 ETM - a schematic via PM.

    It is inevitable that you are going to have to endure some "light reading" aka rave manual headache.


    While people on here are generally helpful, they will not repeatedly spoon feed you. Many do not have the same year model vehicle either, and the electrical systems on Range Rovers are as varied as the weather.

    If you have performed diagnostic checks and outline clearly what you have done then you are more likely to elicit a ballpark helpful response, but the first one that comes to mind is...

    RTFMF... LOL
    Then if you're sure you have followed the diagnostic process as explained in "TFM" (aka RAVE), and stated your results in accordance with it's outlined test procedure, it will be a LOT easier for those who are willing to assist, provide you with a clear path to resolution.

    The electrics in these vehicles are not "great".
    The schematic can be a PITA and it can also be almost illegible at times, especially with the PDF, but that is all we get for free.
    Like the rest of us, you will suffer a degree of frustration at first.

    When attempting to diagnose an issue, do not stop halfway. work from the very start of the circuit, i.e. the battery, and trace the entire circuit. Never assume that a circuit is functioning because your multimeter beeps for conductivity where you checked. Test the voltage drop and the in-circuit resistance (cumulative) to ensure you are getitng "the full picture" as to what exactly is going on with your electrics.

    These vehicles are old, most have suffered butchery in the electrical system, especially under the dash or near the fuse panels. To make them reliable, one needs to approach any aged, corroded, brittle or overloaded circuit wiring with new wiring and appropriate fuses / breakers depending on the circuit type and current draw.

    It's just the way it is. Not the news you're wanting to hear I am sure, but these vehicle will repeatedly kick you in the backside until you make the effort to be absolute in eliminating all possible contributors to "unreliability".

    Trace all the conductors back to the inertia switch, trace the main power feed and check the relay. Check all the inline connectors for corrosion / verdigris and thoroughly clean them with CO cleaner and then use some inox / lanotec / switchlube on those cleaned connectors and ensure they are well protected from further ingress of moisture and detritus. (get under vehicle and clean every inline harness connector)

    It's highly likely that nearly every electrical connection in your vehicle will have some kind of contaminant on the connector contacts, be it sulphonation or oxidation, dirt or moisture. Spend some quality time cleaning every connector you can lay your eyes on, and then go looking for the rest of them....

    Fuel pumps do fail, and replacements are not massively expensive, but making sure your wiring is good from the power source all the way to the pump connector is the key to ensuring reliability and preventing an unnecessary spend... (although having a spare fuel pump is not a bad idea, like spare starter motors and alternators, indicator relays and brake light switches. Basic 'get out of jail free' cards that any older vehicle owner should carry on their garage shelf.

    Do not forget to check the engine bay wiring for the 14cux's coil-ecu wire (white with black trace?) that is near the airflow meter. If that connection is suspect, random stoppages will occur as well. If it's not connected, the vehicle won't start. If it is loose, it will cause random stalling / cutout.

    Inertia switches can cause it, if the spring is weak and there is carpet or an object too close to the plunger (ask me how I found that out one day) and this can be a "gotcha" because it's not in your nature to check something like that on level ground, unless you have experienced it before. In my case it cost me a fuel pump and a dizzy module, because it was just intermittent shorting over random bumps that did not always cause the switch to permanently open the contacts.... a REAL pita.

    For the purpose of elimination testing, I do recommend removing the inertia switch and bypassing it FOR TESTING. but do not remove it permanently. It is there for safety in an accident or rollover situation and it should be 'maintained' like the rest of your mandatory safety items in the vehicle (brakes, seat belts etc). The spring is soft and sensitive and can cause intermittent fuel pump circuit "open" condition if it is not operating within spec.

    IIRC There is a power connector on the LHR chassis rail above the damper, near the fromt left top of the plastic fuel tank that can sometimes be problematic for the fuel system power, it may also pay to check all the supplementary connections underneath the vehicle and ensure there is no mud, moisture or greasy oily crud elsewhere on connectors.
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  8. #18
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    Got your pm thank you.

    And thank you again. Not expecting to be spoon fed but nice to have a place to share Land Rover woes! I’m doing the fuel pump now. Hopefully back on the toad tomorrow. Then a few more things on the list

  9. #19
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    Ok well thanks to the rave manual I’ve found that I was checking the wrong relay haha. I was checking the abs relays. I checked both the efi and fuel pump relays. And both are definitely getting power to them. I tried to bridge 30/87 on the fuel pump relay (blue base) and still got no power to the pump.

    Weird thing I noticed though is with the efi relay unplugged and the fuel pump relay in. When I turn the keys to red the fuel pump relay clicks. But when I have both the efi and fuel relay plugged in. Only the efi relay clicks. 🤔 is that normal?

    I’ve lifted the carpet in the back to try and do a bit more chasing on the wiring as I’m getting the feeling that since jumping the blue base does nothing - there must be a pinched wire somewhere.

  10. #20
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    And she’s running again. I’m not too sure what it was. I changed the pump originally but still no go. Checked places where power should be and there was power. Pulled positive from coil and there was power. Still no start even with relay bridged. Pulled the box beside the dizzy around and pressed it down again. Pulled coil wire from coil. And she fired up

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