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Thread: Throwing good money after bad @ an RRC... when do YOU call it a day?

  1. #1
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    Throwing good money after bad @ an RRC... when do YOU call it a day?

    I see a lot of RRC's for sale online asking silly money for what is essentially a defect-riddled rusty body on a mechanically questionable chassis.

    and the asking prices are in the vicinity of 10K+

    Similarly rusty series 2/2a/3 LWB's and 110 defenders have ballpark figures on average about 3-5K higher for older units.


    So here's the question.

    Would you buy one at these asking prices as a base for a project, knowing full well that you could be spending an easy 20K+ to get it reliable and roadworthy?

    I'm at an inflection point in ownership, and part of me simply wants to take the brand new bits out of my rrc, and put them on ebay/gumtree and then get a scrappie to come get the vehicle.

    the other part of me says that the next "spend" is approx 10K on upgrade parts that I will never get back, regardless of whether or not I use them.

    I do like the vehicle. It's comfortable. With my body so full of titanium I can't do the ultra-marathon interstate trips I used to, and stopping 3 or 4 times is a necessity these days. I've enjoyed life in the fast lane and now understand why my parents 'slowed down' in their mid 40's too. (suburban family life eh) Just took me a few more years than others....

    The real question is, when is it the right time to walk away? There is no 'easy way out' insofar as I can see. I don't really care about the $ loss. What I care about is whether or not the exercise is going to be worthwhile or not.

    Do the same thing to a defender and people will throw money hand over fist to buy your landy.

    But an RRC? ha you're going to get peanuts if you ever decide to sell. Which to me is fundamentally wrong, since the RRC is a far better vehicle to drive and has much better ergonomics.

    When the access point is a D1 or D2 and those are selling for 2K... and really nice condition 4.6 p38a's are going for a pittance, you have to wonder.

    And for the sake of argument only, I'll happily play devils advocate and say that the 1979-1985 w460 lwb Gelandewagens that are nowhere near as comfortable, have just as many rust issues and an underpowered om617 diesel or flogged out 2.3l 4 cyl petrol are seeing absolutely horrid base prices around the 25-30K mark for a vehicle that is barely roadworthy.....

    Cannot see the rationale in all of this. It's simply got to be subjective.... or is there something else I am still not aware of after only 5 years of ownership?
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  2. #2
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    That about sums it up .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercguy View Post
    I see a lot of RRC's for sale online asking silly money for what is essentially a defect-riddled rusty body on a mechanically questionable chassis.

    and the asking prices are in the vicinity of 10K+

    Similarly rusty series 2/2a/3 LWB's and 110 defenders have ballpark figures on average about 3-5K higher for older units.


    So here's the question.

    Would you buy one at these asking prices as a base for a project, knowing full well that you could be spending an easy 20K+ to get it reliable and roadworthy?

    I'm at an inflection point in ownership, and part of me simply wants to take the brand new bits out of my rrc, and put them on ebay/gumtree and then get a scrappie to come get the vehicle.

    the other part of me says that the next "spend" is approx 10K on upgrade parts that I will never get back, regardless of whether or not I use them.

    I do like the vehicle. It's comfortable. With my body so full of titanium I can't do the ultra-marathon interstate trips I used to, and stopping 3 or 4 times is a necessity these days. I've enjoyed life in the fast lane and now understand why my parents 'slowed down' in their mid 40's too. (suburban family life eh) Just took me a few more years than others....

    The real question is, when is it the right time to walk away? There is no 'easy way out' insofar as I can see. I don't really care about the $ loss. What I care about is whether or not the exercise is going to be worthwhile or not.

    Do the same thing to a defender and people will throw money hand over fist to buy your landy.

    But an RRC? ha you're going to get peanuts if you ever decide to sell. Which to me is fundamentally wrong, since the RRC is a far better vehicle to drive and has much better ergonomics.

    When the access point is a D1 or D2 and those are selling for 2K... and really nice condition 4.6 p38a's are going for a pittance, you have to wonder.

    And for the sake of argument only, I'll happily play devils advocate and say that the 1979-1985 w460 lwb Gelandewagens that are nowhere near as comfortable, have just as many rust issues and an underpowered om617 diesel or flogged out 2.3l 4 cyl petrol are seeing absolutely horrid base prices around the 25-30K mark for a vehicle that is barely roadworthy.....

    Cannot see the rationale in all of this. It's simply got to be subjective.... or is there something else I am still not aware of after only 5 years of ownership?
    I think there are many comments to make here on the pro's and con's of RRC ownership, they are a money pit full stop.

    You could probably buy another brand car that's at least twice as good for the same money, that being said, why is that the case?

    It's simply because of what they represent, the fact that they are undoubtedly a piece of motoring history that dragged the entire motoring world 20 years forward in one blow.
    People simply want to own one, I know I do,
    (I've had one in storage for a year for a relly, so I get to use it when I want, etc)

    but it wouldn't be a daily driver, not even close.
    If you hate the thing, and need the money sell it.

    If you are undecided, what happens if you sell it, and then prices skyrocket? Could you live with that?
    They certainly won't get any cheaper-they don't make them anymore (except for LR refurbishing them, for insane money), and they are an unbelievable vehicle.

    It reminds me of an episode of top gear, with the three guys driving three sports cars across the UK, I think it was a Jensen interceptor, a TVR ,and a Mazda mx5,
    The Mazda didn't break down, it didn't leak water in, the windows didn't fall out etc...

    At the end of the episode they all had to decide which one they preferred, no one chose the mx5, it being described as a "victim of its own success", I think there is more to it than that though...

    So if you want to join the vanilla world of motoring photocopies, that provide "transport" go for it, there's nothing wrong with doing that, plenty do, but if you want to own a car that makes your smile everyone you hop in(and it actually starts!)....Well....you know what to do..

    But that's just my deluded take on the world.

    Cheers
    James

  4. #4
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    The day you no longer enjoy it ..... Money is one thing ( regardless of your spend, you ARE going to loose far more in depreciation on any new plastic ****box )... The day your sick of breakdowns and "can't be bothered" with it as you no longer enjoy the car. That is the day to move on

    You don't need to spend big $$$ to keep a driver you like. The big spend comes in when you try to make it "perfect". And the better you make it the more you will spend .... and you will likely never reach your point of "perfection" .... as the destination changes. As soon as you make the body perfect and shiny ... the interior looks ****ty ... so you spend up big on the interior ... then you think "I've spent all this money on something pretty .... better make it reliable" ... so you spend another small fortune on all of the "maybes". Its an exercise in futility. If at the end of all of this you manage to end up with your idea "perfect" dream car ( at huge expense ). You then won't enjoy it as anytime you actually drive it ... the thing may get damaged. So you'll be treating it with velvet gloves scared ****less someone will mark it ........................ So it will become a garage princess your scared to even look at ... or move from the shed.

    The futility of car restoration sure is fun I've only learnt in the last 5years ...... Just drive any car you own and enjoy it. Aiming for "perfect" will only end up as an expensive nightmare (though the next owner will certainly enjoy your labours if you ever sell it ... as they will just drive it and no worry so much about "perfection"... they haven't put all the effort into it).

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercguy View Post
    I see a lot of RRC's for sale online asking silly money for what is essentially a defect-riddled rusty body on a mechanically questionable chassis.

    and the asking prices are in the vicinity of 10K+

    Similarly rusty series 2/2a/3 LWB's and 110 defenders have ballpark figures on average about 3-5K higher for older units.


    So here's the question.

    Would you buy one at these asking prices as a base for a project, knowing full well that you could be spending an easy 20K+ to get it reliable and roadworthy?

    I'm at an inflection point in ownership, and part of me simply wants to take the brand new bits out of my rrc, and put them on ebay/gumtree and then get a scrappie to come get the vehicle.

    the other part of me says that the next "spend" is approx 10K on upgrade parts that I will never get back, regardless of whether or not I use them.

    I do like the vehicle. It's comfortable. With my body so full of titanium I can't do the ultra-marathon interstate trips I used to, and stopping 3 or 4 times is a necessity these days. I've enjoyed life in the fast lane and now understand why my parents 'slowed down' in their mid 40's too. (suburban family life eh) Just took me a few more years than others....

    The real question is, when is it the right time to walk away? There is no 'easy way out' insofar as I can see. I don't really care about the $ loss. What I care about is whether or not the exercise is going to be worthwhile or not.

    Do the same thing to a defender and people will throw money hand over fist to buy your landy.

    But an RRC? ha you're going to get peanuts if you ever decide to sell. Which to me is fundamentally wrong, since the RRC is a far better vehicle to drive and has much better ergonomics.

    When the access point is a D1 or D2 and those are selling for 2K... and really nice condition 4.6 p38a's are going for a pittance, you have to wonder.

    And for the sake of argument only, I'll happily play devils advocate and say that the 1979-1985 w460 lwb Gelandewagens that are nowhere near as comfortable, have just as many rust issues and an underpowered om617 diesel or flogged out 2.3l 4 cyl petrol are seeing absolutely horrid base prices around the 25-30K mark for a vehicle that is barely roadworthy.....

    Cannot see the rationale in all of this. It's simply got to be subjective.... or is there something else I am still not aware of after only 5 years of ownership?
    Proper cars--
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    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  5. #5
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    Shane, I don't disagree - but the alternatives are not appealing.... GQ pootrols and 105 series landbruisers - which also carry an "ownership caveat".

    I had a GQ about 15 years ago. I would not own one now, unless it was a comp truck. Certainly not for road use of any kind.

    That's what's sinking me. I don't daily my RRC, but it does get regular use (mostly boat towing, highway use and no real city traffic) and the coastal elements are starting to take their toll in ways only I notice. part of me wants to do another cape trip in it, but It's not going to make it back unscathed, I am certain.

    maybe I should consider doing the U-Pol raptor thing and go all-out, gut the rear seats and full ashcroft/35" on it. add another 3 or 4 light bars and a 4wd action sticker and some fluoro pink maxtrax for full effect.

    Then have it break before I get to Brisbane...

    And that's the conundrum.

    Last year, instead of driving up, we flew, hired a fraud ranga and suffered it on the creb, to bloomfield (old upper daintree not the graded rd) then back along the upper daintree graded rd to the meg in a long day. Had to stop at palmer river for mandatory brontosaurus sized rump steak (challenge accepted) and a long break before returning back to the beach shack. It was exhausting in that vehicle.

    That drive taught me a couple of things.

    1. the Rangie is still way more comfortable and useable offroad without the modern TC and terrain control BS
    2. the Rangie is almost as good on fuel offroad as the Fraud Ranga, which was horrific for a diesel.

    It also taught me that the Fraud is better than the Tojo. WHAT I hear you say? yes, you heard. Better. Not more reliable, or superior quality, but better offroad, better on fuel than the FJ and better engine response. Transmissions on both are appalling at best, but that's what you get when you let a computer manage things offroad. The fraud's rear locker was annoying in engagement (stupid actually), but the Tojo was good. the frauds TC was better than the tojo.

    Yet neither are as capable as a bog standard RRC over the same terrain. The RRC doesn't need TC to get over those obstacles or cross creeks or maintain traction - primarily because it doesn't lose traction in the first place. Yes, occasionally I would like a locker in the rear of the RRC as 'insurance', but I haven't yet found myself in a situation where a light brake application didn't work to the same outcome.

    Therein lies the rub.
    Older, less reliable, more expensive to maintain, allegedly less capable.

    yet proves to be more comfortable, just as bad on fuel in the bush, doesn't need all the electrical overhead (and unwanted points of failure) to achieve the same (better actually) driveability on a reasonably rough and sometimes quite challenging track.

    Problem is, I know it's on borrowed time. the next 'spend' is either a big spend into a money pit, or a bigger spend into a newer unknown with what will obviously be questionable reliability until it becomes a 'known' vehicle.

    I'm not sure I can live with either to be honest. Buying new is not an option, and I doubt a suzuki mini-g-wagon is capable of a deep water crossing (it would be windscreen height at nolans for example) without irrepairable damage.

    Looks like RRC will have the final say. Rego is due in 8 days. I have a week to make my mind up I guess.
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

  6. #6
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    I will never sell my Rangie..but that’s just me..
    I have had a Rangie since 1983..my current one since 1994.
    I love driving it and sometimes like fixing it...
    I also love my TD5 Discovery, but it’s not the same as the Rangie, it’s hard to describe as they are both great vehicles but I prefer the sound and feel of the Rangerover.
    I Cannot image not having one...
    It saddens me when I see people wrecking Rangerovers that still look ok and may need some fixing up as they are getting rarer especially ones that are almost stock without all the guards cut up.
    I would love to rescue them all but that’s just not practical....I am seeing a lot of Disco 2 also being wrecked with mechanical issues...things that could be fixed...soon they will also start to be collectors items..
    I will stop now..I have had my Winge...🙂🙂🙂🙂
    Range Rovers Have Charactors inside them
    LROCWA Ex member 23 years
    1971 Series 2A
    2004 Discovery2a V8 Auto
    2003 Discovery2a TD5 Manual
    1982 4door man (sadly now gone)
    1989 Vogue auto
    2011 TDV8 Vogue
    What would life be without a Rangie?



  7. #7
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    If your wanting to do long distances. I see fuel as the biggest problem. You just can't carry enough of the stuff (especially towing). I'd take my ****box anywhere .... **If I was a part of a group**. Its an exercise in crazyness to take a 30+year old vehicle to extremely remote areas with no backup. I'd probably take a bog standard Rangie. Possibly with a winch. I have no interest in proving myself to everyone, so I would take the "easy" route around the obsticles that everyone with 35" mud tires and diff locks thinks they need to go through.

    Series I land rovers would have covered most of this continent ................. Running in 2wd. As soon as you start heavily modifying everything, I reckon thats when you start running into reliability issues.

    Then again.... I have never done any remote road travel, so what would I know

    I'd be more likely to do this than take the Rangie either way.....

    Raid Arnhem 2016 Photos

    You need go travel with some like minded nutters .... er "friends" to make it more interesting.

    I doubt I'd ever sell the ****box rangie. It'll just be lined up beside my other ****boxes if I ever need something new ..... When ever anyone says I need a new car I start finding for sale adds for things like old Studebakers ... or triumphs ... or rovers ... or jaguars ... or ... well anything that I personally find interesting. Then they shut up right away about me getting a "new" car

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercguy View Post
    I see a lot of RRC's for sale online asking silly money for what is essentially a defect-riddled rusty body on a mechanically questionable chassis.

    and the asking prices are in the vicinity of 10K+
    yeah , but they never get it.. and good luck if they do...any 30 yr old vehicle is going to need $$ thrown at it..
    if you can find a half decent body, its not hard to put in a decent motor and box..brakes, tyres servicing comes with all vehicles. These are very capable off road machine stck, even better with 2 inch lift and winch..which is why most people have em..
    yeah if u have a sherwood or something limited and want a daily driver, yes, it's going to cost u but..a limited release will retain value
    Just my thoughts.. i had a 93 weekender i got cheap yrs ago, ive always hated the ABS and finally the pump **** itself.. so i just bought another 90 model with a great body, duel fuel , winch bar, motor a lil tired but its great, fairly cheap to.. perfect for weekender.. i got a 4.2 stroker i want to put in, gunna b great
    89 RRC
    92 RRC Sherwood

  9. #9
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    Your dilemma has been bugging me for years. A "wrong" decision has cost me thousands - sometimes by persisting with a vehicle that was not worth the cost and in other cases by selling/trading what was probably a good vehicle in need of work for something that ended up costing more and with little benefit.

    In my case I am lucky to have had a long-standing professional relationship with Graeme Coopers for over 20 years - both as their webmaster and as a customer. I largely rely on their judgement when deciding but ultimately, the decision has less to do with money than how much the vehicle means to you in terms of enjoyment and reliability.

    I'n now on my 7th Range Rover. This 91 Highline was originally purchased new by a close friend, who spent a large fortune upgrading it, before finally selling it to Coopers, from where I purchased it minutes later (no exaggeration). I have now had it for over 10 years and have similarly spent heaps on it, Recently, the engine became unreliable so hence the question of whether to sell it and persist with the 93 Vogue I also owned, or get rid of the Vogue and put the money into a new engine for the 91.

    On financial terms alone, I would have kept the 93, but I had little faith in the ABS system, the transmission and the minor but irritating electrical/electronic problems were too numerous to list here. Most of the "enhancements" in the SE's are absolutely unnecessary her in the bush where reliable mechanics with Land Rover experience are non-existent (trust me, I have found that out the hard way). So the decision was relatively easy - keep the 91 and get a new engine. in this case a THOR block, fitted with stepped liners, high-comp pistons, cross-bolted mains, my own reconditioned heads, rebuilt copper radiator and so on.

    Too much money to spend on a 91 vehicle? Maybe - but it now runs like a Swiss watch. It also has all of the extras I need - like BFG KO2 tires, external wheel carrier, decent lights, rebuilt aircon, leather (P38) seats, Satnav, real wood trims, a MOMO steering wheel and so the list goes on. The standard brake booster system and coil suspension also take away a heap of worry about reliability.

    This message will not solve your dilemma but I hope my experience might help.

    Alan

  10. #10
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    How do you like the p38 seats in the RRC? nothing wrong with mine mind you, I'm just curious.

    I need a steering wheel boss for my spare momo wheel too. any idea what the boss number is? (stamped on the collar)
    Roads?.. Where we're going, we don't need roads...

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