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Yeah the box could be ok. Given I can swap it for another, I'd be crazy not too. The water in the bottom doesn't worry me hugely.... its the condensation in the top that will have done any damage.
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Its entirely possible the thing is fine .... But who wants to spend another day or so swapping another in if its not good. Its the condensation on the back of the shifter plate that worries me.
seeya,
Shane l.
That looks fine to me. What if the other box is the same or worse? If it’s not far to go look then no real dramas, but I wouldn’t b too fussed if I found that inside one of my boxes (I’ve probably got a couple just like it in the back shed. 😇
Did you see the video ? the water pumping out of the bottom oil cooler lines ! If I could see the rest of the gearset so I was certain they weren't rusty, yes I'd use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homestar
Yeah, but the water was clear - I'd have run some oil through it a couple of times and called it good, but that's just me. [bigwhistle]
Quite unfortunate.
I have seen this before, seemingly innocuous, and for the most part visible damage not apparent.
Because gearboxes are full of "quality" steels and white metals and LOTS of corrosion-preventing heavy oil film, the likelihood of emulsification from ingress on a non-moving geartrain is minimal.
BUT -
There is always a surface layer where this occurs, and depending on how long the water has been in there, the problem could be minor or obviously more severe.
I have seen perfectly fine internals after being submerged in flood water - the filthy stench of flood mud and it's ingress into transmissions, necessitating a full teardown - and I have also seen the results from pressure washer overspray etc.
You might be surprised to know what is 'worse' in terms of visible damage.
The biggest worry is not the pump gear, although for me that is 'immediate teardown' and might as well perform a reco on the box on the spot - which is not what should have been required in this instance - but the possibility of moisture / condensation on white metal parts and on the bearing surfaces that are exposed to the moisture - that is where the damage will rapidly manifest itself if the box is put into service without a more detailed inspection.
It does not take very long for the hard chrome surface of bearing material to pit in this kind of scenario, and putting it back into service will see the rapid decline of the bearings through thermal cycling and the pitting corrosion.
Not only that, but the likelihood of fretting corrosion on all the areas where lubrication is not normally an issue, will become apparent in a rather short time.
It's not just landrover boxes - it's all gearboxes and automatic transmissions.
The oil can protect the metals only so much before the oxidation reaction occurs, with water providing the conduit for all the dissimilar metals to swap electrons.
There's no telling how long this box may have lasted - but one thing is for certain, there will be a lot more moisture inside than people may think. It's not always obvious.
A full-on flush with metho and then a kerosene bath, sat in the sun for a few days and then reassembled - it *may* have dodged a bullet, but since it was purchased as a useable second-hand part, it needs to go back to the seller. That is the perfectly legitimate obligation on the sellers part - when you are selling a serviceable item, you must ensure it is before it leaves your premises - or not, and then deal with the hassle of poor reputation earned and needing to refund the customer.
word of mouth is a powerful weapon, and it only takes a few bad experiences from customers to ruin a business.
Or the endless pedanticism of a karen from facebook. There is that problem to deal with also.
So the seller has offered to furnish the buyer with another unit - and that is perfectly acceptable, but I bet there will be a more thorough inspection before it leaves that premises - and regardless of the seller's 'guarantee' I'm pretty sure Shane will do his own inspection to make sure.
Oh, I'm not bad mouthing any sellers ... or mentioning names at all. I file this under "**** happens". If your parting out cars and drive it around first and everything seems fine..... That's about as good as you can promise with used car parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercguy
seeya,
Shane L.
I'm pretty sure that you understand the point of my long-winded response was not specifically about the seller's ethics, but rather the issue discovered and how to remediate it.
The ethical statement bit is there to cover off the 'karen from facebook' personality types.
Gearboxes are a problem.... there is no real way of testing htem without fitting them to a car.... unless you pull the gearbox down. And if you are going to do that, you might as well fix the gearbox you have on hand .......Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercguy
with motors you can compression test them .... even start them if they have a carby and starter attached. Not so with a gearbox!
I'd happily disagree on the testing point.
It's very easy to detect bearing noise and the 'significant' wear in synchros in a bare box.
Input shaft play and output shaft endfloat - these are quite obvious in most gearboxes.
Dropping oil is also a good indicator (many times however it's already been dropped)
But I'd also caveat that with need for a stethescope and some experience to know what sounds to listen for, and what is acceptable in terms of 'play'.
Also, battery drill and bit of rubber hose to test pump if req'd and also to aid in shif tests.
Point not lost however, is that there is an implied trust that someone selling a used box is not fibbing about it's condition.
You shouldn't 'have to' validate, but these days... eh. You can't take someone elses word for it.
Well this has been fun times ..... I got around to going for another drive in the coutnry a while back and swapped the gearbox for one that was in a car he used to drive.
I spent some time flushing it, and cleaning it out and noticed this now when I was hooking up the transfer case
https://youtu.be/7k0h2NmA5Z0
Damn .... I reckon most manual disco 1's must have been parked up or wrecked when there gearboxes played up. I waited several weeks for yet another gearbox to be sourced from a container of parts and finally got it back in last weekend.
I have one of these transmission jack adapters here:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/L-4AA...1T/s-l1600.jpg
Actually, it not mine, one of my brothers mates lent it to me years ago then shifted away. Anyway, he also made an angled platform to bolt to it in order to support the lt230 while he swapped in a new torque converter into a disco II ...... You know, I spent a couplle hours swearing and trying every way I could think of to support the gearbox and transfer case from that bloody attachment.... It bloody useless. even if I managed to do it without the whole lot tipping over if I breathed near it.... You'd have to somehow jack the car until its touching the shed roof to slide it under on the trolley jack. its certainly to heavy to lift onto the trolley jack once your under the car.
These would work fine for just the gearbox..... with no transfer case swinging off the side. the 3rd gearbox I picked up I checked as much as you can. The input and output shafts felt tight, the output spline was good, all the gears select ... er, what else can I do but fit it ??
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I figured the bloody transmission jack was useless so I'd try an engine crane through the door....
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That wan't going to work .... the ramps are in the way ....
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So we jack the front of the car up and sit in on blocks, so I can drag the entire car back with a ratchet strap....... I then immediatly find the engine crane won't work. Even if I lower it as far as it'll go, it'll need to lift far higher thant he cars roof to lift the transmission and tranfser case up from the ground ...... Gee's this is bloody fun, how the how does someone with no tools do this sort of job ?
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Ok, so now we have the tranmission jack adapter thrown out of the shed in frustration, the car rolled backwards on the ramps, a block and tackle swinging from the engine crane .....
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A ratchet strap slung around the gearbox so it's nose heavy..... another ratchet strap over to the transfer case mount (so tightening the ratchet strap will support the weight of the transfer case and rotate it into the correct position.
Amazingly this worked and it slid straight onto my guide bolts and into the clutch first go ... The back of the motor was supported with a ratchet strap, and the front of the gearbox could be lifted/lowered with a trolley jack to get the angles right.
SO I finally bolted it together to the point where I could start the car. So I jumped in, and fired her up ..... no 4th gear. very hard to engage and crunching when I tried harder. Obvously 4th has a broken synchro ring as the is no drag there, even the prop shafts aren't fitted up.
In frustration I bolted in the prop shafts so i could back it out of the shed and clean up all the split gearbox oil and clay before I started all this "fun" again (yes, I left the drain pan of gearbox oil near where I was working and knocked the damn thing over .... Anyone with even half a brain would have either moved that well out of the way, or drained it into a drum and got rid of it [bighmmm]). Anyway, i moved the car out of the shed and figured I'd do some laps of the street and park in outside and rebuild my existing gearbox with a new main shaft (I'm sure as **** not doing all this crap a 4th time with another used gearbox).
Anyway, imagine my suprise when 4th gear engaged like a knife through hot butter ..... What the hell ?? I spent 10minutes driving it aorund and the gearbox seems perfect. I fitted it with ATF ( as recommended by ashcrofts ). And the syncrhos are bloody amazing, even when freezing cold leaving the yard when its 4 degrees outside. I'm not convinced ATF is really adequate for an environment like Australia, I might run gearbox oil in summer and ATF in winter.
Oh, and the LT230 ..... I think this must be a later one from a Disco 2. It seems to be far quieter .... Did they change the gearsets in them to make them quieter in the late ones? You get nowhere near the transfer case howl I'm used too [bigrolf]
seeya
Shane L.
