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Thread: Programmable Ignition Timing

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Kaye View Post
    Has anyone else fitted one of these CB Black Boxes yet. Would like to compare MAP's.
    I'm waiting for your map after you get it tuned on a dyno and then I might fit one for petrol and one for gas and go from there.

    You've done a great job getting this far.

    DL

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Kaye View Post
    It's actually running very well at the moment, still on LPG. I have the standard 3.9 camshaft in it, and it pulls well from about 1200rpm to 4000rpm. It won't really rev past 4500rpm, not sure if that is the camshaft limiting the revs or something else. I should have put another camshaft in while I had the motor apart recently.

    It is a lot more lively than it was with the new MAP I have in it and fuel economy has also improved, now down to around 20 litres per 100km, or a little better.

    So, it's using less fuel and going better so happy with that (for now).
    You might be starting to get into the area where the size of the 3.9 is the limiting factor.

    This happens with commercial cray boats where a larger donk will actually use less fuel day to day than a smaller version, just coz it's not working as hard.

    I can only speak for 350's in RRC's........best I know about was 5.5l per 100 k's (!8.2 l/100) in a fresh motor running Impco a fair while ago.

    Best I've ever got was a bit over 19, usually 20 to 21........... but the motor has over 700 thou on it, and the compression would be south of 9:1, maybe even south of 8:1.

    The other thing you could consider is direct LPG manifold injection.........i.e. separate injectors controlled by computer into the manifold for each cylinder.

    Back in the 'LPG day' Holden and Ford had LPG models with this system and the fuel consumption was very much the same as petrol.

    At that time a lot of Disco's got converted to the same system and these days they get sold as wrecks for other reasons. I've seen a memorable one..... the whole car with one of these systems for 3.5k. Would be plug and play in your RRC with the manifold swapped over.

    Then we run into the same question................ how much petrol does a 3.9 Disco use?

    That's your benchmark if you go down this route, I've had a bit of a search re: 3.9l Disco petrol consumption and 20l per 100 is pretty normal, others may like to comment......................

    cheers, David L

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350RRC View Post

    That's your benchmark if you go down this route, I've had a bit of a search re: 3.9l Disco petrol consumption and 20l per 100 is pretty normal, others may like to comment......................

    cheers, David L

    My 3.9 RRC, ZF Auto - fresh(ish) cam from Triumph Rover in SA, New(ish) timing chain, Ford AU pintle type injectors, Bosch 024 ignition, snorkel, paper element. Running about 12 btdc, 95 octane fuel.
    Sure I get 20/100 around town, cold starts (I'm thinking this is especially where buckets of fuel get chucked in) and a lot of stops and starts.
    On a trip with no burden except for roof racks I get 15-16/100
    If I'm towing my 720kg camper trailer (sized to be as out of the wind as poss) it goes back to 20/100 on a trip.
    Don't really need to rev it past 3.5k unless I'm getting it out of a hole, 4.5K would sound a bit much on an ongoing basis.

  4. #74
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    Does anyone have a 3.9 with a standard camshaft that will rev past 4500rpm while still making power (particularly LPG). Mine runs out at around 4000rpm but will go to 4500rpm but doesn't really like it.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Kaye View Post
    Does anyone have a 3.9 with a standard camshaft that will rev past 4500rpm while still making power (particularly LPG). Mine runs out at around 4000rpm but will go to 4500rpm but doesn't really like it.
    Put some 95 octane in it and see how goes.................

    With lpg I'd think it would be a fuel or air supply restriction.

    I know a guy who was running two Impco convertors for a 351W in an attempt to solve the same problem, but it didn't work.

    Could maybe be inadequate warm water supply to convertor, or the weird one where the water is too warm.

    There was a time where people were using inline thermostats to limit the heat of the water going to the convertor to stop the gas going into the engine getting too thin. P38 Ron was onto that.

    David L

  6. #76
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    Last week the ****box here didn't want to start.... It usually fires right up on LPG (but wouldn't .... very strange). What has been happening for quite a while, is it doesn't want to start on petrol intermittently when cold. Obviously whatever sensor enriches the mixture for cold starting is either intermittent .... or not working.

    I came back to look at it the following day when I had time .... and it fired right up (as I didn't touch the accelerator I'm guessing, closed throttle blade == richer mixture for starting). Anyway, I also found it wouldn't start on gas ..... 'cos there was no LPG in the tank

    The reason for this long winded explanation ? Well it seemed to be running poorly and just felt like the ignition was retarded when I was driving around. I also noticed the idle stepper motor had decided to start working .... hmmmm.......

    Then it occurred to me what was going on ..... I pulled over and popped the bonnet and plugged the AEI ignition advance module back in (I'd bypassed it as I thought it might be the reason the car wasn't starting). Instantly .... she was running wwwaaaayyyy better. No more surging and flatness and feeling of ignition retardation .............. and no more idle stepper motor working.

    You got it .... the ignition advance unit modifies the ignition signal and must screw up the computer being able to work out if the engine is idling (so to adjust the idle stepper motor). Has anyone else noticed there idle stepper motor stopped working with the ignition advance box hooked in ??

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  7. #77
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    Hi DoubleChevron, what Ignition Advance Box are you using?
    Is it to change the timing when running on LPG?

  8. #78
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    Its an AEB joker from memory. Its refused to start and refused to switch to gas the last two times I've tried to start it. I'm thinkng what is happening, is the advance unit is "noisy" and at slow speeds both the LPG changeover circuit and the injection/ignition computer are not seeing a cranking signal .... so it struggles to start.

    I'm going to bypass the advance unit and see if the problem goes away (which is a shame as it runs waaaayy better with the unit hooked up).
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Its an AEB joker from memory. Its refused to start and refused to switch to gas the last two times I've tried to start it. I'm thinkng what is happening, is the advance unit is "noisy" and at slow speeds both the LPG changeover circuit and the injection/ignition computer are not seeing a cranking signal .... so it struggles to start.

    I'm going to bypass the advance unit and see if the problem goes away (which is a shame as it runs waaaayy better with the unit hooked up).
    Yep, checked two days in a row after bypassing the igntion advance unit. The car now starts instantly on petrol. 1/2 of a revolution of the motor. You can't let the key off quickly enough. I'd say the modified wave the ignition advance unit is producing has become so noisy that it can't start at starter rpms.
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Yep, checked two days in a row after bypassing the igntion advance unit. The car now starts instantly on petrol. 1/2 of a revolution of the motor. You can't let the key off quickly enough. I'd say the modified wave the ignition advance unit is producing has become so noisy that it can't start at starter rpms.

    i went to drive the kids to school this morning through the bush ( 6minutes ) as its taking about 45minutes through traffic the last week or so .... and the ****box wouldn't start. So no, it wasn't the ignition advance unit. The changeover switch isn't letting it start on gas either. This is good, I'm hoping it stays broken until I have a chance to look at it. I'm still thinking tacho signal as the changeover switch isn't allowing gas solenoids to open. maybe the pickup gap in the dizzie has opened up I'll go through all the basics (spark etc) this weekend. fingers crossed the damn thing stays broken!
    Proper cars--
    '92 Range Rover 3.8V8 ... 5spd manual
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I :burnrubber:
    '63 ID19 x 2 :wheelchair:
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas
    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual :zzz:
    '11 Poogoe RCZ HDI 6spd manual

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