RRC 90 EFI testing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mike 90 RR

Thought I would elaborate a little further on the subject of the 76 thermostat and my main reason for "Wanting to keep this running temp"



Over the time I have noticed the features & failures of the "Slipped liner" in these rover blocks

Couple of things have stuck in my head as others have posted up thier problems and others have given answers

One was .... To install the new liner, they heat up the block .... and when you boil or overheat the motor ... the liner can slip as the block can loose grip of the liner at this temperature
In 3.9, 4.2 and 4.6 blocks as they are bored bigger to take the larger liner. Less wall thickness means more movement.
Very very few in 3.5's unless they have been roasted totally.

Another was .... A comment was placed on a thread that mentioned that the rover block was never really designed to run 88 degrees ... Hence liners slipping .... It is only been setup this way for EFI
Thats why its just a comment and unless has some substance, will always remain a comment... ney, uneducated comment!

The carby versions are running 76 odd degree thermostat ... and do not appear to complain about liners letting go (unless they have been boiled)

The higher temp is due to emissions regulations on things like NOx CO2 etc etc. A higher running temp reduces some outputs but the low compression of the EFI non Cat engines reduced more and aleviated the need for convertors, something that changed when the 9.35:1 CR engines came in later and emissions regs changed again.
So .... My methodology is that my motor is getting on (about 250k on the clock) .... and I am paying attention to keeping it in good condition for many more K's with trouble free motoring .... :)

If you run it too cold, you will do more damage than running it hotter.

One solution that has been rolling through my mind is installing a wire & switch with a 300 Ohm resistor in it, and splicing it into the Coolant sensor connection ... Basically when the car is warmed up .... just flick the switch (located in the cabin) and force the Sensor to read the 300 Ohms which would = 85 degrees?
:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
And what happens when your engine is actually hotter than 85 degrees and the figures coming from the fuel thermistor dont "balance"????

/// Still thinking about it /// as in should it be less , say 200 Ohms //// is it worth all the hassle? ;)
NO!!!!!!!

Mike

:)

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For what its worth, you may as well get it chipped. Its well known that the base map is less than adequate and the range of the map is small to say the least, rich at low end, lean at midrange and lean to late rich at WOT.
This is to satisfy emissions regs only and provide some kind of economy (with tongue in cheek...... Landies and fuel economy......:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:: Rolling::Rolling::arms::arms::arms::arms::arms:) but to get the best out of it, dont try to trick it.
I have tried usung different tune resistors yada yada yada, but unless you have oxy sensors, the other resistor packs DO NOT WORK!!!

Have a look at PhillipA's post on fitting them or if you ask him nicely, maybe he will send you the details on how to do it as he did for me.... something i still need to get around too.....;););)

Cheers

Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

tongue in cheek...... Landies and fuel economy......:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Andrew

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Hi Andrew ... your all heart :p :p :p

Mike

:)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfynoxL2RZI"]YouTube - early bosch compared to new gen 3 bosch fuel injectors[/ame]

This is a link to the new Gen III Bosch injector test.
I was amazed!!

Have been doing some investermergating into these to see what I can come up with.
The things trat get in the way when gleaning tech info is that most injector houses produce figures in lbs/hr but dont give any specific dynamic pressure which doesnt help.
Bosch, for reasons totally unknown, give theirs in grams per minute (g/pm) at a metric rate of pressure in Bar........ go figure...... this takes a bit more number crunching.

Anyway, so far after trawling my pages of info, standard flow rates at test for ERR722 Lucas injectors which suit 3.9, 4.2 and 4.6 V8's are as follows:

160-175cc/min/injector minimum - white spirit @ 2.54kg/cm2 (36psi) 20C
180-195cc/min/injector minimum - petrol @ 2.54kg/cm2 (36psi) 20C

Now, to convert lb/hr into cc/min, multiply the lb figure by a factor of 10.5092.
Please dont ask me to explain how I came to this, it was enough of a headf**k getting there let alone re writing it, but years in the fluid game abviously stuck in the grey matter!

Using this, as purported, a 19lb/hr injector rates at 199.67cc/min which falls into the range of the std injector.

I just need to work out the conversion factor for g/pm to lb/hr.

But, I have worked out from the Bosch catalogue that PT# 0 280 155 844 (EV6 rated) has a flow figure of 150.2 cc/min @ 2.7bar (2.75kg/cm2, 39.11psi)
equates to 19.86lb/hr.
I did this by converting 150.2 grams which is 0.331lbs and multiplied it by 60minutes to get the lb/hour figure.
So, look for injectors that flow 150-160 g/min.
I will add that the Bosch flows are quoted using N-Heptane which has different viscosity ratings to petrol but I think its not too different to white spirit, someone correct me if I am wrong.

I will have a chat with my fuel injection guys at work and see if they can give me some leads as to info on the GenIII models available and post back as soon as I find out.

Cheers

Andrew

:)

I have made contact with a source in the US. The Mustang 19lb Design III is a direct replacement for the stock Lucas unit.
The only difference is that there is no injector rail clip on the DIII unit, but as it is bolted down anyway, this shouldnt be a problem.

There are 6 sets available right now for US$22 each and $33.50 shipping.
These will have to be split into 3 sets or it will exceed the $1000 duty barrier.
Unless these are available in Aus somewhere I want to go ahead and order at least 2 sets as I know Mike is itching to get his hands on them.
What i would also like to do is get some gas readings and maybe a rolling road done pre and post fitment to get some real figures on how they perform.
If anyone can do this and would like to buy a set, feel free to contact me!

Regards

Andrew.

Hi Andrew
I'd be interested in a set if you go ahead
Cheers
Nick

I have a set of 4 hole Bosch "purple" which The yanks sold previous to the Mustang ones, and am very happy, particularly with idle stability and engine smoothness.

No extra economy though.

And Ward from Graeme Cooper reckons they are not exactly the same flow as the old Lucas hoses, and are a little rich down low IE the characteristics of the flow are slightly different.

Remember in the USA that the RRCs have cats and O2 sensors so can automatiucally compensate for a wide variance in richness etc.

This may not be the case with a 14CUX without cats as in Oz spec. the worst that can happen is that you would have to fit a piggyback or O2 sensors.
Regards Philip A

No probs Nick. Will just wait to find out if anything is available locally first and at what cost.
I followed a link to bimmernut.com on them and a guy in Sydney reckons he actually got a set in Sydney from somewhere.....

I have also found some Ford part numbers which I think are the right ones and it had a Bosch number to boot so as soon as I hear back, I will let everyone know.

Phillip, I really dont think its going to be a problem based on the fact that these injectors actually fog, not stream and it fogs at the nozzle, it doesnt rely on the induction stroke and turbulence over the valve to atomise the fuel. Your Bosch purples are exactly what the old style Bosch units are in the video which, yes are a 4 hole, but are Design II. The DII's are a pintle sesign and spacing is very close which is what causes it to stream.

I am starting to see this technology come through at work now in diesels, particularly the latest Detroits and Cummins Signature engines but not quite to this stage, although this is what will become the spec for on highway truck engines, one of the reasons Caterpillar pulled out of on highway due to the investment for such a very small range of their engines just to meet emissions.

Here are some pics of the Design III's

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...010/05/322.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...009/12/678.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...09/03/1235.jpg

Cheers

Andrew