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Thread: Choice of Deep Cycle battery A/H, location in old Defender Ute etc

  1. #1
    VladTepes's Avatar
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    Choice of Deep Cycle battery A/H, location in old Defender Ute etc

    Vehicle - proper Defender (Tdi 130 dual cab)

    How do I work out what battery in terms of amp-hours I need if purchased a 2nd battery?

    Usage:
    Electric Winch
    Powering a CPAP machine for up to a week
    LED lighting (camp / car)
    Occasional use with laptop and inverter.
    Recharging devices such as drone batteries, camera batteries etc.
    Engel 40l Fridge

    Does anyone know if there's a limit for Amp Hour size with the Traxide SC40 controller?

    What are teh recommended brands and purchase places these days?


    Location: Under my pax seat is pretty full of electrical 'stuff' I have no desire to move (too much work required), so that leaves the following options.
    1. Under drivers seat (but that's shallower so not sure it will fit, or how it would fit. )
    2. Make a custom box that sits on the floor in front of the middle of the back seat - i.e. behind centre console. Downside is it means I lose thee flat floor space for long objects.
    3. In the tub. Main disadvantage is that - given that aux battery would be looped in for winching there would be thick cables front to back (for battery charging) and then from battery to front for winch). All a bit messy.
    Last edited by VladTepes; 24th September 2021 at 01:55 PM.
    It's not broken. It's "Carbon Neutral".


    gone


    1993 Defender 110 ute "Doris"
    1994 Range Rover Vogue LSE "The Luxo-Barge"
    1994 Defender 130 HCPU "Rolly"
    1996 Discovery 1

    current

    1995 Defender 130 HCPU and Suzuki GSX1400


  2. #2
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    Hi Vlad and the limiting factor or more correctly put, the controlling factor for charging batteries is the size of a vehicle’s alternator.


    You can fit as many auxiliary batteries as you need or want, and there is no limit ( other than space to locate the battery(s)), and the size of your alternator will govern how long you will need to drive to recharge that battery capacity from flat to around 95% full.


    For fastest charging, try to use a cranking type battery that has deep cycle capabilities.


    The SSB HVT range of batteries are perfect for this use and the The SSB HVT-50D, a 60Ah battery, will easily fit under the seat, next to your cranking battery.


    The SSB HVT-50D has a recommended retail price of $245.80

  3. #3
    VladTepes's Avatar
    VladTepes is offline Major Part of the Heart and Soul of AULRO Subscriber
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    The main things I'd be running if I was away for days would be:
    fridge 24/7
    CPAP (nights)

    I have no idea how to determine how long I'd be able to run those from a charged auxiliiary battery of a certain size , or how long with a stock 300tdi alternator I'd have to drive to recharge it. Also I assume idling isn't enough but driving is required (higher revs)
    It's not broken. It's "Carbon Neutral".


    gone


    1993 Defender 110 ute "Doris"
    1994 Range Rover Vogue LSE "The Luxo-Barge"
    1994 Defender 130 HCPU "Rolly"
    1996 Discovery 1

    current

    1995 Defender 130 HCPU and Suzuki GSX1400


  4. #4
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    A couple of questions from post 1

    1. Second row floor space, how often have you used this space in the past for long objects?? If it fit on the floor than it’d more than likely fit on the seat….or in the tray. If you cannot give up this space than scratch it off the list. You could go a slim lime battery which would give you floor space for long skinny things.

    2. It’s reads that you currently don’t have an AUX battery but already have winch? If this is the case I’d there a need to add the AUX battery into to the winch mix….assuming your already winching off one battery. If you really want a second battery for winching than you may have to grow a pair and rearrange the space infer the seat. I’m with you and don’t like two batteries jammed in under the seat. First thing I changed when I got my first defer.

    I’m surprised your not running a disco alternator………

    From memory you have a tub on the 130 with canopy? I assume the fridge will be located and where the CNAP will be plugged into? I’d be focusing on this area for your AUX and other bits and pieces.

    Budget will define your final solution

    Pop around one day, assuming you still live in Bracken Ridge, I’d be good to catch up and maybe brainstorm some solutions.

  5. #5
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    Hi again Vlad and while idling will put some charge in a battery, a 30 minute drive can equate as much as 2.5 hours ( or more ) of idling.

    Whether your alternator is big enough or not, will depend on how much battery capacity you use between drives and then how much driving you do between uses.

    For example, say you are on a big holiday and stay at one location for a few days, drawing your auxiliary battery down pretty low and you then drive for 4 hours to your next coming spot.

    In this situation, your auxiliary battery, even a large one, will most likely be back over a 95% charge state. While on a long holiday, getting your battery anything over 80% will be fine.

    If on the other hand you only drive for say 30 minutes. With your alternator and a large battery in a low state of charge, then you find you will ran out of battery power in a relatively short time at your next stay.


    While fitting a bigger alternator will benefit, but a more practical solution, if viable in your specific situation, is to buy a decent size portable solar panel.

    The solar setup would probably cost a lot less than an alternator upgrade and would allow you to stay in one location for a much longer period between drives, plus it could be used to maintain your batteries wet home when you are not using your vehicle for long periods of time.

    Also note, if it is a viable setup, fitting a solar panel to the roof of your vehicle would be a major advantage.

    With a portable solar panel, if you say, go for a walk, you will need to put the panel away or it might also go fo a
    wall while you are away.

    By fitting one to your roof, it will not only be secure, but while driving, it will add additional charging to your batteries.

    Biggest drawback with having the panel fixed to your roof, is that you have to park in sunlight for the panel to work.

  6. #6
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    Vlad
    130 tdci for me

    Looking over your requirements it is possible you could run a similar setup to myself.

    I have a 40L Engel in the tray (dog box)
    Made a mount under the tray right over the rear bar that holds a 130ah Giant AGM. Too if dog box is 120W of cheapie solar panels feeding the AGM via a Victron MPPT

    I leave the fridge permanently on running at cold beer temp - I never really target my parking but would choose sunny spot over shady if I was parked up for a few days

    Have been running like this for just under 4 years

    Now I did wire in two marine switches
    One simple I/O to kill the panel power if need
    And a 1,2,both, off hooked to the cracker under passenger seat

    Which allows me to let the alternator charge the AGM by switching to “both”

    But the reality is I’ve never needed too !!!

    I have used the switch to use the solar to top up the once failing cranked while I waited on a new
    Battery however !!!!



    Anyways - my ramble is
    A simple standalone solar setup might work just as well as combining two batteries with some poke-jiggery

    Steve
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    When you say 'days away' - how many days are you talking about? A weekend, a long weekend, or weeks on end? Constantly moving camp or sitting in the same place for multiple days?

    With regards to battery usage, what is your priority? CPAP? Winch? Fridge?

    Consider a portable battery pack for the CPAP. There are some good lithium ones nowadays that might be able to power it for many nights between charges.

    Using an electric winch without a 2nd battery is asking for trouble. You don't want to roll into camp with a drained battery because you just spent time winching, or worse, you could be stranded on the side of a track unable to start your car.

    If you're only going away for a few days at a time consider making blocks of ice and using a good esky instead of a fridge. Block ice lasts much longer than crushed ice. I've been doing that now for a number of years and I hardly ever pack the fridge anymore unless I'm going on an extended trip. I find the fridge is too bulky, especially with the fridge slide/box combo.

    If the plan is to spend weeks away then you will need a decent dual battery setup, possibly with solar or generator backup, or the very least a good jump start battery. There are some great lithium options out there.

  8. #8
    VladTepes's Avatar
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    Thanks all.

    A few clarifications and follow up questions.
    - I'd like to have a set up that allows me to stay in one place for multiple days with potentially little driving.

    - I don't have a winch on there yet. I have one I need to rebuild and fit.
    - Truth be told in most cases of winching I'd imagine the engine would be running

    Lithium battery packs for CPAP - sounds like a great idea - does anyone have any links to the sort of thing?


    I like the idea of a solar panel charging setup. Is there a good thread on this here somewhere?
    What's a good value for money option?
    What sort of power generation would be needed to keep battery topped up over say about a week.
    I'd definitely be looking to do something fixed rather than portable. Sun generally not a problem to find here
    It's not broken. It's "Carbon Neutral".


    gone


    1993 Defender 110 ute "Doris"
    1994 Range Rover Vogue LSE "The Luxo-Barge"
    1994 Defender 130 HCPU "Rolly"
    1996 Discovery 1

    current

    1995 Defender 130 HCPU and Suzuki GSX1400


  9. #9
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    Using an electric winch will drain the battery. How much it drains is dependent upon a few factors such as how hard the winch has to work and how long it is used for. Having the engine running will help with the load required by the winch but the output from the alternator during winching is unlikely to be enough to keep the batteries fully topped up. In this scenario you cannot rely on your batteries being fully charged by the time you get to camp.

    Regardless of how many days you intend to spend away, you will need to calculate the amp hours you need each day eg: If fridge uses 3 amp hours per hour then 3 x 24 = 72 amp hours. For Leah acid including AGM then you'll need at least twice the amp hour capacity ie: 150amp. for Lithium you will need at least 1.1 times the amp hour capacity but 1.25 times would be better. ie: 90amp.

    If you are going to be stationary for multiple days then multiply the above by the number of days. I doubt you'll be able to carry the battery capacity you require so you'll need some way of recharging the batteries. Your options are limited to solar or generator. Each have their advantages/disadvantages. eg: Size/weight/noise/convenience etc.

    Type of battery is another thing to consider.
    AGM are heavier, have a maximum depth of discharge of around 50% and they take a long time to recharge.
    Lithium are lighter, have a maximum depth of discharge of around 90% and charge quickly but are much more expensive.

  10. #10
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    Hi BreakingBad, and some corrections.

    During RV winching operations, if you winch correctly, you should never end up with flat batteries, no matter how long you winch for.

    The correct way to carryout winching operations, is to winch for 60 seconds then, with the motor still on high idle, rest for ninety second, and repeat as needed.

    This allows the batteries to be continually charged up and to allow the winch to cool between uses.

    It is only in competition off-roading where you are you likely to end up with flat and/or stuffed batteries.

    Most lithium batteries can NOT be used for winching.

    Because most lithium battery setups require a DC/DC device to charge the lithium batteries, if you use a hybrid type lead acid battery, that is a cranking battery with deep cycle capability, then the lead acid batteries can be charged from flat to over 95% in a fraction of the time it will take to recharge lithium batteries.

    While many lithium battery sellers make this claim that lead acid batteries can only be discharged to 50%, I have never seen a lead acid battery manufacture state “Do not discharge below 50%”

    Most lead acid batteries, be they wet/flooded type or AGM, can be safely discharge down to 20% SoC ( 80% DoD ) and many of the new hybrids, like the Super Start Battery’s HVT range, can be discharged down to 0% SoC ( 100% DoD ).

    Whereas, while a few lithium batteries can be discharged down to 0% SoC ( 100% DoD ), most lithium batteries should not be discharged below 20% ( 80% DoD ) according to lithium battery manufacturer’s specs.

    So, in most cases, the only advantage to lithium batteries is the weight saving and longer life, but even their life span has also to be based on cost comparison between the two battery types.

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