Windows7 a Con? Well it comes from Micro$oft

Yeah I give up. I love the various other flavours of UNIX/LINUX but they are simply beyond the capabilities of most computer users. So, I recommend Macs. Despite Ferrets assertion that Macs are riddled with vulnerabilities and security flaws the metrics just don't add up. Macs are a far safer from a security standpoint than any previous versions of Windows. Time will tell on Windows 7.

One of the reasons I switched to macs was because a friend of mine recommended them. He is a very senior UNIX security consultant who has worked for our government (he never would tell me what he did other than security) and now works for Google. He still uses and recommends macs.

So chaps (Ferret, disco2hse, Delta_Farce), what OS do you recommend to your family members (non it workers that you have to support)?

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Originally Posted by disco2hse

So is OS X. Unix that is.

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Hi Alan,

I know what you're saying here, but Mac OS is a derrivative of BSD/Nextstep, which itself was derrived from Unix. Likewise, Solaris is derrived from alternate sources but still a Unix derrivative. Whilst there are common elements in them all (Berkley tools, GNU tools) the current major *nix operating systems aren't the same thing, it's just that there's not really a single (original) Unix anymore.

For simplicities sake, it's easier to refer to them as three different things.



On to Captain_Rightfoot's question.

I've rolled out Windows XP for my family, but I always harden the OS before I let them touch it. Full patching, active (and auto updating) anti-virus, and spyware protection (with browser plugins). That has kept me pretty free of support calls (other than ones where they just don't know how to do something - software install, email setup etc).

I have had to do some data recoveries to do for friends, but the worst has been due to a physically damaged hard drive and they had no backups of their photos (as is always the case).

If any family or friends want servers setup, I typically use Ubuntu Server. I'm currently learning my way around OpenSolaris though and I think that in the majority of areas it beats Linux. Horses for courses really, but OpenSolaris can use the ZFS file system which is brilliant.

There are many different operations systems, and many different distributions.. I don't really recommend any one over any other.

It all depends on what you want. There is a hell of a lot more to an Operating system than security.

So, If you want a computer that 'just .......ing works' then go to an applestore and try one out.

If you want a computer that is seriously secure, run OpenBSD on ultrasparc, run it from a RAM disk, and epoxy up the firewire ports. Turn it off when ever you leave the room and take the RAM chips with you (if someone freezes them they can still get data of them). Change your MAC every time you connect to a network, and at regular intervals during... But then again - how to do you know that your OpenBSD CD wasn't backdoored before it even arrived? Do you really think the post is secure? You downloaded it? You can never tell that it is OK.. what if a developer's machine was compromised? omg paranoia :(:(:(:wasntme::angel:

I don't recommend Macs because they are secure. I recommend them because when I use one, they seem to disappear - they are initiative, everything just works.

I'm a mac user. My first Apple was a 2e, and I've no idea how many I've had since then (many). There are two things in life that would have to be forced out of my cold dead hands - my Isuzu 110 and my MBP. :)

BUT - Mac users must NOT be arrogant / cocky about security. You are all arguing about the symptoms of insecurity, not the causes. I have presented the facts about Mac insecurity, but I also still use them. You can make you own mind up about what that means.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Despite Ferrets assertion that Macs are riddled with vulnerabilities and security flaws the metrics just don't add up. Macs are a far safer from a security standpoint than any previous versions of Windows. Time will tell on Windows 7.

So chaps (Ferret, disco2hse, Delta_Farce), what OS do you recommend to your family members (non it workers that you have to support)?

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I don't really recommend anything to family members, they make their own decisions. However, within our household we currently have 5 machines, all PC with XP except one laptop which has Vista SP2. Contrary to popular perceptions we are not plagued with virus, spyware, malware, worms, pop ups etc. No, I don't even have Conflicker. Sorry to hear the guys in your office do.

My personal PC, the one I earn my living with, has been running the same installation of XP for 6 years, maybe more. Contrary to popular perceptions it has not slowed to a crawl or crashed because the registry is bloated, doesn't blue screen multiple times / day and does not need reformatting every other month. In fact I have never needed to reformat and reinstall any variety Windows O/S to fix an issue, not once.

In nutshell, that's my personal experience. Do I need a Mac? Or even a Mac to install Windows 7 on? I don't believe so.

Now, does MS have issues? Well you only have to look at Windows forums - the answer is undeniable. But I look at the Apple forums too and see much the same bitches, my perception is the Apple marketing hype doesn't quite seem to match the reality. Funny about that - but hey, maybe I'm just bias.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Would you seriously go and ditch your macbook and get a windows 7 laptop in the knowledge that there will be fewer exploits and vulnerabilities for it?

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No, I would not seriously suggest you ditch your macbook, you have made it clear what you prefer. By the same token and given the personal experience I have outlined above would you seriously suggest I ditch my PC?

Yes, time will tell on Windows 7 it is going to be interesting.

Thanks for elevating me to 'security expert'.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So chaps (Ferret, disco2hse, Delta_Farce), what OS do you recommend to your family members (non it workers that you have to support)?

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Actually I will recommend what they have used before. Unfortunately, as are some of us here, I am often the 'tech guy' who is called upon to fix the rellies pcs. Most people want cheap and cheerful and for the kids to be able to do their homework, in which case if they use Macs at school I say get a Mac. If they have only used Win then I say get what you are comfortable with but be aware of these issues, otherwise get a Mac.

Alan

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Originally Posted by Delta_Farce

I know what you're saying here, but Mac OS is a derrivative of BSD/Nextstep, which itself was derrived from Unix.

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No, I mean it is actually Unix, regardless of its genealogy. See

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/c...ates/1190p.pdf

Alan

Ok guys.. good recommendations. Some have much higher workloads for the support person than I have with my family on mac (IE no workload) but there you go.

So, just to clarify, we absolutely don't want me to say that macs are a more secure option that windows or anything else. I get that. However, am I allowed to say the following when referencing macs?

"There are currently no viruses or malware threats for currently patched Snow Leopard in the wild. Nor have there ever been any large scale malware or virus attacks on OS X since it's release apart from one Trojan only found in pirated copies of iWork."

:D

Just let me know if the above statement is OK because I don't want this flogging again ... LOL :) Just let me know and I'll put the numbers in if there are any :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ferret

No, I would not seriously suggest you ditch your macbook, you have made it clear what you prefer. By the same token and given the personal experience I have outlined above would you seriously suggest I ditch my PC?

Yes, time will tell on Windows 7 it is going to be interesting.

Thanks for elevating me to 'security expert'.

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Just to clarify I have never said that Windows cannot be hardened or used without problems. I've spent many years inside IT leaning institution halls, and have been an IT worker since 89... I didn't have problems with security when I was running windows either. Not a one! However I was constantly working to keep my families computers virus and spyware free... and often I got called too late...

My point is that for the normal person who is not IT trained or not an IT worker it's very very difficult. I think most people for whom IT is an interest or a job loose sight of this. Also, I respect that people shouldn't have to be experts to use IT - I think that's uncool!

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

"There are currently no viruses or malware threats for currently patched Snow Leopard in the wild. Nor have there ever been any large scale malware or virus attacks on OS X since it's release apart from one Trojan only found in pirated copies of iWork."

:D

Just let me know if the above statement is OK because I don't want this flogging again ... LOL :) Just let me know and I'll put the numbers in if there are any :)

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Oh alright then ;)

Alan

I've been running Windows 7 Enterprise edition for some months now and would never go back to XP (forget Vista). Much better in every respect but even more important is that it has great support for hardware. Search for and install of missing drivers is very good.

I recommend this to all PC users but never would recommend Vista.

Don't knock it until you try it (and I don't mean Release Candidates)!

Howard

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Originally Posted by bigdog

I'm sticking with Windows XP Pro until all of you early adopters have felt the pain and Windows have fixed Win7 and all the bugs identified through your service calls. There is no way that I will migrate to Vista. Win7, maybe in a couple of years :)

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Better buy the new 27in imac has te be the bollocks.
You'll never regret it. i promise