ABS Issue

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Originally Posted by 0000_22

In my line of work, I curse people that perfrom this action, the vehicle is then deamed unroadworthy and uninsurable, the results of which have far reaching effects, give that some thought before you go messing with any vehicles safety systems. If it has a fault, fix it. If you can't afford to fix it, then get rid of the vehicle and buy a cheaper to maintain vehicle.
The worse thing is that you may then sell the vehicle to someone who has no idea what has been done, again a very silly practice.

JC
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Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner

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it's like this mate Get off road some time with an older disco with out ABS then take out another with ABS preferably the same age as the one with out come back and tell me which one stopping ability was certain to stop especially when the maintenance schedule was abandoned with the previous owner. as for safety features I suppose you'd also subscribe to the idea that SRS is a safety feature... tell that to all the people with broken faces and arms from having their arms over the steering wheel airbag when It deploys.

besides that the point of safety devices is to ensure reliable safe operation of the vehicle if a system may compromise that then arguably it is not a safety device. also I would like to point out the high number of discos out there with faulty sensors... should make a little nervous about the guy tailgating you next time on the motor way...

don't get me wrong ABS is a great system when maintained and used almost exclusively on the road but in the even that you are primarily off road I'd argue It's more of a hazard than its worth

I've also come to notice that you are "Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner" very nice truck mate you have allot to be proud of there (to be honest I would gladly have one over the disco any day) but that said it stands to be noted that the 110 county is defiantly not one to fall victim to the devil of ABS. make no mistake the legality here is not what's being disputed here, but what is the difference between making my landy non ABS and you not having it to start with its not like the 96 Disco didn't come out with a non ABS option, therefore why should I have a vehicle that is "deemed unroadworthy and uninsurable," when in reality I probably have a vehicle that still has better stopping power than yours due to better disks even without the ABS?

Perhaps we should take the moment to state that while this may (if caught) cause you to lose your road worthy (but lets face it who the hell checks the fuse box then takes apart the dash pod for a road worthy?) and again if caught undermine your insurance, it can well be the safer option. all the same I will acknowledge here the small disclaimer that I'm sure you wanted me to state originally.

THE PRACTICE OF DISABLING YOUR ABS MAY BE ILLEGAL IN SOME/ALL (not to sure) STATES (don't get caught I wont be responsible) AND BE ETHICAL WHEN SELLING YOUR VEHICLE TELL THE BUYER THE OFF RECORD MODS YOU'VE DONE

other question here is guys how much are people charging for sensors a quick ebay search turned up these

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 FRONT BRAKE ABS SENSOR | eBay

$96 ish

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 1 REAR ABS SENSORS`94-`98 | eBay

$140ish

from there your hanes manual should cover how to fit them

other idea/question is is there any photo tutorials here in AULRO on how preferably test but then replace sensors?

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Originally Posted by 0000_22

it's like this mate Get off road some time with an older disco with out ABS then take out another with ABS preferably the same age as the one with out come back and tell me which one stopping ability was certain to stop especially when the maintenance schedule was abandoned with the previous owner. as for safety features I suppose you'd also subscribe to the idea that SRS is a safety feature... tell that to all the people with broken faces and arms from having their arms over the steering wheel airbag when It deploys.

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besides that the point of safety devices is to ensure reliable safe operation of the vehicle if a system may compromise that then arguably it is not a safety device.

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also I would like to point out the high number of discos out there with faulty sensors... should make a little nervous about the guy tailgating you next time on the motor way...

Thats why you maintain and fix them so they remain safe for you and the next person that buys your car

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don't get me wrong ABS is a great system when maintained and used almost exclusively on the road but in the even that you are primarily off road I'd argue It's more of a hazard than its worth

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I agree I hate my ABS off road but don't you have any on road driving to your off road points? or do you trailer your vehicle

I've also come to notice that you are "Proud to be a Classic '85 110 Isuzu owner" very nice truck mate you have allot to be proud of there (to be honest I would gladly have one over the disco any day) but that said it stands to be noted that the 110 county is defiantly not one to fall victim to the devil of ABS. make no mistake the legality here is not what's being disputed here, but what is the difference between making my landy non ABS and you not having it to start with its not like the 96 Disco didn't come out with a non ABS option, therefore why should I have a vehicle that is "deemed unroadworthy and uninsurable," when in reality I probably have a vehicle that still has better stopping power than yours due to better disks even without the ABS?

the vehicle is unroadworthy and uninsurable because you have tampered with a safety device which was fitted to the vehicle..go do a body lift on your disco with the optioned SRS airbags and see how far you get when declaring to your insurance or try to get it engineered
That is why JC said have it removed completely and then have it engineered. engineered should be easy because it wasn't standard on all cars and it would cost you around 400bux similar to replacing 4 sensors :)

Oh and I bet your disco wouldnt have better stopping power my disco doesnt stop better than my defender and I think they use the same caliper as the county:)

Perhaps we should take the moment to state that while this may (if caught) cause you to lose your road worthy (but lets face it who the hell checks the fuse box then takes apart the dash pod for a road worthy?) and again if caught undermine your insurance, it can well be the safer option. all the same I will acknowledge here the small disclaimer that I'm sure you wanted me to state originally.

THE PRACTICE OF DISABLING YOUR ABS MAY BE ILLEGAL IN SOME/ALL (not to sure) STATES (don't get caught I wont be responsible) AND BE ETHICAL WHEN SELLING YOUR VEHICLE TELL THE BUYER THE OFF RECORD MODS YOU'VE DONE

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the other thing to remember is when insurance companys look into claims they will hire investigators (I have trained with them) stating stuff like this on an open public forum (which is easily searched) could easily have you come unstuck one day if they traced it back to you in the event of an accident. Both criminally and civil of course I'm not saying that this is going to happen and I hope you never have an at fault accident. Just something to be aware of when making your choices.:)

JC is a very good and very well respected Land Rover specialist so I think you will find a lot of the stuff he says is talking from experience I have no doubt he has had customers in his time bring cars to him that have had the safety features tampered with unknown to the unsuspecting buyer

Several things

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Originally Posted by dullbird

That is why JC said have it removed completely and then have it engineered. engineered should be easy because it wasn't standard on all cars and it would cost you around 400bux similar to replacing 4 sensors

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how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?

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Originally Posted by dullbird

JC is a very good and very well respected Land Rover specialist so I think you will find a lot of the stuff he says is talking from experience I have no doubt he has had customers in his time bring cars to him that have had the safety features tampered with unknown to the unsuspecting buyer

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I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

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Originally Posted by 0000_22

Several things

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how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?

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I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

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I'm not sure how to answer the how to remove questions but what I would say would best to engage an engineer, talk to him about what you want to do and why you want to do it BEFORE doing anything...some engineers will sign off more than others it just depends on who you get.
I know my engineer that I used would not allow you remove the airbags option or not..and he is really picky about any modifications made to brakes but that is him and doesnt count for all..

I would also be taking proof of other cars in the same year without the fitment just to show that they were in fact optional extras....

somethings did change a little while back regarding signatorys so I dont know whether they have more restrictions now or whether you need to meet more standards or not...its been a while since i have spoken to my guy 2 yrs in fact so a lot could have changed...]
your best bet would be talk to one and see where you stand.:)

Has ABS always been an option for the D1? - Or did they become standard fitment after a certain date ?

ABS is late 94/early 95

as of 96 if it was an option for the vehicle then it was mandatory to be fitted.

in a recent (bout a year ago from memory) sting on roadworthy checks a couple of guys lost their tickets for failing to report that safety system check lights did not illuminate as part of the vehicles idiot light check sequence nor that the ABS systems were non functional a couple of cautions were issued for not picking up that the SRS components were 10+ years old and therefore due for replacement.


NO engineer will sign off on removing any part of a safety system.

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Originally Posted by 0000_22

Several things



how would one go about getting the engineering certs and likewise could one get the SRS removed? Other thing being what would need to be removed/replaced besides sensors master cylinder fuse etc. to make it back to standard locking breaks sudo legitimately?



I think I owe JC an apology here in that in a moment of frustration I may not have engaged my head before typing I meant no disrepute to his expert ease my comments probably steamed from frustration with the seemingly backwards system no doubt JC is a very skilled tech. so again I apologise for any offence in my previous post

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Hey no offence taken, just I take a very serious view of this sort of thing, and I DO agree the D1 system is a poor ABS for sure, but nonetheless it is fitted to some. I wouldn't choose it, but that is just me. My 1985 110 suits me just fine, I had a great 1993 LSE RR with that fantastic Wabco ABS and rear TC now that system works properly, never gave trouble and had wihout doubt the best brakes of any LR I have ever owned.

Insurance companies are a fact of life, we don't have to like them though:(

Happy LR'ing:)

JC

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

ABS is late 94/early 95

as of 96 if it was an option for the vehicle then it was mandatory to be fitted.

....a couple of cautions were issued for not picking up that the SRS components were 10+ years old and therefore due for replacement.

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That's answered my next thread.. which D1 to look for if/when I need a cheap car for sons...

'What' ABS components must be replaced every 10 years ? Sounds expensive. Most importantly, why?

To my cynical mind, that means inadequate OEM quality, or someone's idea of generating income for stealers/parts suppliers.
- Reminds me of a scare campaign over here some years ago, trying to frighten motorists into replacing their shock-absorbers every 30,000km or less. - That works out at every 18 months for the 'average' owner...

Those of us locals with white hair may recall the late 70's /80's Great Ball-Joint Ripoff. - Once again, motorists frightened into thinking they'd come apart on rough surfaces if there was any free-play. - Some early model Falcons had 'heaps' of play... From new. Quite normal as per specifications.

- Follow the money...

no ABS component MUST be replaced every 10 years unless they are non functional. Its SRS (supplementary Restraint System) components that must be replaced every 10 years and they are all the ones with the stuff that goes boom in them as the pyrotechnics have a shelf life. Essentially any airbag and the seatbelt pretensioners. Old school dumb as a post systems dont show any error and rely on logbook tracking or pulling the vehicle apart to inspect the dates, newer ones have a date code built into the unit which is interrogated by the BCU (or equivelent) on startup and will tell you that component X is now due for replacement.

If your going to get a landy to teach someone to drive in get a series, strong, slow and it will teach them about line picking, traffic anticipation, braking distances and how you have to drive when all the electronics go west. They go fairly cheaply and cost a pittance to maintain once they are up.