Thread: Front recovery point for D1?

Originally Posted by THEBORDERDOG

So after all this......Whats the best recovery point for the front of the disco I've been using the strap between the two points on the bar for years now with no problems but the more I think about the more dodgy it becomes.

If you read my post in this thread #22 or use the Search option in this Forum for "Recovery Points", "Shackles" you will find heaps of info from all views on this subject.
IMO the best recovery point is on the front of the Bullbar in line with the chassis railends. It would be a Collared eye bolt that bolts to a plate mounted in the end of the chassis rail. Not attached to the bullbar in any way. This way eliminates under bar damage to cable/rope when vehicle moves forward/backward and the wheel drops into a hole and brings the bar down on the cable.
Having an eye bolt on the end of each chassis rail gets the cable/rope up out of the crap and is easier to attach recovery equipment. With the eye of the eye bolt in the vertical plane (up and down) the shackle/s are free to rotate/align to wherever the direction of the tow/winch, even at an angle of 180 degrees.
Shackles are designed and engineered to only have a load on them in the straight ahead direction, if the pin is jambed in the recovery point (Horizontal) hole and the load is pulling in the sideways direction (off centre), the shackle MAY fail. It might not fail first time, but it will be damaged and the last thing you want in your recovery setup is a damaged shackle.
Now I know these flat plate recovery points are simple, simple to make so people can sell them and make money, whereas the correct way, by mounting an eye bolt in the ends of the chassis rails requires more effort and thought, it is SAFER, Regards Frank.

Collared Eye Bolts loose 70% + as soon as they are pulled at an angle. So you would need a 15 ton Collared Eye Bolt to withstand a 5 ton load?

eyebolts

Dave

Originally Posted by SouthOz

Collared Eye Bolts loose 70% + as soon as they are pulled at an angle. So you would need a 15 ton Collared Eye Bolt to withstand a 5 ton load?

eyebolts

Dave

I use proper industrial strength eye bolts, as shown in pic below, the size of the collar on mine are about half the outside dia, of the eye, I have lifted 100ton loads using collared eye bolts at an angle and never had a problem.
At least eye bolts (proper) are designed to take angled loads, whereas a jambed shackle being pulled sideways has NO WLL or SWL, it is being stressed beyond it's design and it should not be done, Regards Frank.


Before anyone jumps in and says the pin hole is horizontal and not vertical like it should be, it's not mine, regards Frank.

Frank,
at the back of your collared eye bolt do you use a washer and single nut?
out of interest what size is the bolt?
I assume you suggest running a longitudinal plate along the chassis which then angles 90 degrees to accept the collared eye bolt?

I never use dynamic recovery so have much lower standards on recovery points

I have collared eye bolts in my bar (in the horizontal orientation) but they are only M16 (fit a 3.2T shackle).
They are simply mounted through the front plate of the bar and through the main structural from chassis rails to bar. (TJM bar I replaced the lower two bolts either side of the winch with eye bolts)
Just using a large washer and nylocs.
No deformation/ damage to the structurals, eye bolts, or other bar bolts despite plenty of heavy winching - but it would be good to know what size eye bolt you are running / recommending.

Regards,

Originally Posted by Tank

I use proper industrial strength eye bolts, as shown in pic below, the size of the collar on mine are about half the outside dia, of the eye, I have lifted 100ton loads using collared eye bolts at an angle and never had a problem.

Well then you have overloaded them and they should be binned. As a qualified rigger you should never exceed the WLL of any lifting gear.

Quote from eyebolts

Direction of Pull Adjusted Working Load
45 degrees 30% of rated working load
90 degrees 25% of rated working load


Dave

Originally Posted by roverrescue

Frank,
at the back of your collared eye bolt do you use a washer and single nut?
out of interest what size is the bolt?
I assume you suggest running a longitudinal plate along the chassis which then angles 90 degrees to accept the collared eye bolt?

I never use dynamic recovery so have much lower standards on recovery points

I have collared eye bolts in my bar (in the horizontal orientation) but they are only M16 (fit a 3.2T shackle).
They are simply mounted through the front plate of the bar and through the main structural from chassis rails to bar. (TJM bar I replaced the lower two bolts either side of the winch with eye bolts)
Just using a large washer and nylocs.
No deformation/ damage to the structurals, eye bolts, or other bar bolts despite plenty of heavy winching - but it would be good to know what size eye bolt you are running / recommending.

Regards,

I haven't completed mine yet, being a pensioner i have to plan to do things that cost money between bill paying paydays and when i have the funds to do it. I will post pics of construction.
My plan is to remove bull bar, fabricate a 4 sided box section that will fit in each end of chassis rails with 4 anti-crush tubes fro the 2 bolts already there for the bull bar and an extra 2. The end (closest to bull bar) will have a 1" dia nut welded to the 1/2" end plate which in turn is welded to the pre-mentioned box which is bolted (4 bolts each) into the chassis rail ends. The 1/2" plate will be threaded as well, the collared eye bolt, the part of the eye bolt thread that protrudes past the nut will have a high tensile roll pin fitted to allow the eye bolt to be rotated, if need be.
Each individual will have their own preferences and most will go with the easy way and fit the flat plates onto the side of the chassis rails. There are many ways of mounting eye bolt plates that are free of attachment to the bull bar and everyone will have their own way, your way seems to work, but using a snatch strap is an uknown as no 2 snatches are the same (don't take that literally, LOL), so as long as you are aware of the dangers involved, Regards Frank,

Originally Posted by SouthOz

Well then you have overloaded them and they should be binned. As a qualified rigger you should never exceed the WLL of any lifting gear.

Quote from eyebolts

Direction of Pull Adjusted Working Load
45 degrees 30% of rated working load
90 degrees 25% of rated working load


Dave

The eye bolts you have shown look to be extremely light duty, the collars on any eye bolt I have ever used are 2 to 3 times the size of the ones shown by you. Compare the pic of the eye bolt type that I use. I have used eye bolts that have collars as big as the outside dia of the eye, search around you find much stronger eye bolts than you have shown, regards Frank.

Here is some info from the Riggers Guide.

Eyebolts

Eyebolts are used extensively as lifting lugs on set pieces of equipment. The safest eyebolt is a collared

eyebolt. Uncollared eyebolts should only be used where the pull on the eyebolt is vertical.

Only collared eyebolts should be used where the pull is inclined from the vertical. The underside of

the eyebolt should be machined and the seating upon which the eyebolt is tightened should also be

machined. The eyebolt should be tightened so that both faces meet in a neat tight fit. If both faces are

apart the collar is of no use.

Any diagonal tension applied to an eyebolt should be in line. The pull should never be across the eye.

Do not insert a hook into an eyebolt. Always use a shackle.

Where two eyebolts are used to lift a load, a pair of slings should be shackled into them. Do not reeve a

single sling through two eyebolts and then put both eyes on the hook.

71

Where eyebolts cannot be kept in line with each other when tightened, insert thin washers or shims under

the collars to allow the eyebolts to be tightened when in line.

Do not tighten an eyebolt using a heavy hammer. Use a light hammer or a podger bar. After tightening

check the ‘solid feeling’ which indicates a properly fitted eyebolt.

Loads can spin when lifted with a single eyebolt causing the eyebolt to unscrew from the load. Mouse the

eyebolt to the load to stop unscrewing.

Eyebolts are often put on large motors or similar to lift the casing off. It can be dangerous to lift loads with the

eyebolts that are provided on the load. If no information is provided about an eyebolt sling the load with slings.

If rings are provided with the eyebolt depend on the WLL of the ring or screw thread, whichever is

the weakest.

Where a nut is fitted to the end of screwed thread ensure that it bears evenly on the surface around

the hole.

650 to 24000 lb WWL with a hole size from 1/2 inch to 3 inches seems light duty? As a rigging site (the one I linked) I thought you would be familiar with it.

Dave