Thread: How mount thicker intercooler?

Originally Posted by Finnius

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I am curious why some people say the alloy radiators when used with a 300TDi will just 'disappear'?
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Some folks may have just had bad experiences, other probably don't realise that alloy/plastic rads have been used successfully as std equipment for a good 20 odd years now!

I personally have never had any issues with alloy radiators.
Yeah, they can block up and or crack up or whatever they're supposedly are 'infamous for' .. no different to full copper, genuine manufacturer radiators tho!
In my personal experience I've had more full copper radiators fail on me than all of the plastic/alloy radiators I've ever had.

Originally Posted by AK83

Some folks may have just had bad experiences, other probably don't realise that alloy/plastic rads have been used successfully as std equipment for a good 20 odd years now!

I personally have never had any issues with alloy radiators.
Yeah, they can block up and or crack up or whatever they're supposedly are 'infamous for' .. no different to full copper, genuine manufacturer radiators tho!
In my personal experience I've had more full copper radiators fail on me than all of the plastic/alloy radiators I've ever had.

as i said i just quoted what was told to me by people who know a lot more than i do. general physics rules though, copper is far more conducting than alloy and far more ductile. so cooling efficiency is higher and less prone to cracking from vibrations based on those principles. copper doesnt corrode either. as far as the alloy head and the alloy radiator is concerned, the head still does get corrosion. possibly because it's thicker though or has more flow through it, it is not noticeable. where as the radiator is very thin and has all those fins and tubes so all it takes is a little bit of corrosion before it becomes a big bit of junk. that last bit is just speculation though. maybe someone with more knowledge than me can chip in. all i know was the people that i asked knew way more than i do and i respect them so i stayed with my copper radiator and got it re-cored, which was cheaper than getting a good alloy one anyway so it's a bit of a no brainer if you ask me. i would never put any cheap ebay chinese alloy anything in my 2 tonne offspring.

I generally tend not to disagree with people and make loud noises about it.
Y'know .. each to their own .. bygones be bygones .. and so forth .. BUT!

Originally Posted by Fausto79

.... copper doesnt corrode either. ....

Is a fair stretch of the truth.
Have no idea where this info originated, but having had a lot of dealings in my past with refrigeration(only as an operator in my dads previous food delivery business) .. I can tell you 101% that copper does corrode.
It starts off going green.
And my RRC is proof(enough for me) that whatever corrosion process it succumbs too, it's slow and not easily noticeable .. but it does happen.

My RRC was a '79 model. I got it in '88. Apart from religiously servicing, which included regular coolant refreshes(and far too many dead Lucas alternators! ) .. I think it was about mid 90's when it's radiator(full copper) turned to dust.
it wasn't the entire fin area, because the rad was checked, flushed and rechecked for issues.
The hand against the fin area was only at the sides that were still very solid.
I've written about the issue previously in other threads but my RRC started to run hot(dash temp gauge at the start of the red zone) for 2 years with lots of checking of various bits and pieces. It never actually over heated tho!
And during those 2 years I'd done many trips into Central Aus with it in hot weather.

One day when I was doing something to the engine(can't remember) but needed the viscous fan to be removed, as I was working at the front of the engine, my hand rubbed moderately hard against the central part of the rad(ie. in front of the fan area) and copper dust ensued.
On the previous rad fin checks as the fan made it harder to feel that area, I just felt the area around it, which was solid.
But the copper area around the fan area was soft, squishy, flaky and easy to pull to pieces just moderately rubbing a hand over it.. with no effect on your skin!
A leak eventually sprung with this rubbing(car still stone cold) .. and of course I freaked out.
Back then I live very close to the old RoverDrive walked up there got a new rad(luckily he had on special) fitted, and the previous 2 years of overly hot running confirmed that copper rads can and do fail.
What surprised me tho was that even tho it ran hot(not overly pressurised tho) .. it never actually sprung a leak or exploded .. considering how little pressure it needed to fall to pieces by hand.

Over the last 20 years I've had or helped others with their vehicles, I've never seen an aluminium radiator do the same thing(with the aluminium core). Yeah, they spring leaks and they eventually hole themselves or whatever .. but from what I've seen not any more so than all the copper rads I've had to deal with in my time.
While those plastic aluminium radiators are usually pretty reliable(which is why all manufacturers use them!) .. I still don't like the plastic tanks on them.

Well over a year ago I got a full (welded) alloy rad for my 300 Tdi, what I think was pretty cheap. Not the best quality(in terms of fit and finish) .. but for the price, I'd thought it'd be worth a test to see if it makes any difference.
If I weren't too busy AND lazy at the same time, I'd have fitted it ages ago.
I wanted to fit the rad and thicker I/C at the same time, in a nice shiny new alloy frame tho .. why I haven't gotten into it yet.
From my studying the thicker I/C and the frontmost area of the discos radiator bodywork(where the I/C sits, I think that the cheaper ebay style thicker I/C may require the bodywork to be modded(ie. cut and folded).
Added to this that the chassis steering bracket needs to be ground a bit .. it's not going to be a simple replacement job .. and my D1 is my daily drive.

I'm going to do a quick test fit one day tho, just to assess the front rad bodywork fitment .. and if it looks like it's going to struggle in any way .. I'm going to abandon my cheapo ebay thick I/C and order the much better looking (fitment) Allisport type(with it's chamfered tank design).

As always the problem is finding the time to do it all .. dads POS just burnt it's clutch out .. so lost a day just retrieving it. Now we have to get it to the mechanic, get the parts .. etc.

Copper sure does corrode!

My game atm is commercial/industrial refrigeration and HVAC, we have copper evaporators and coils corrode through in as little as twelve months.....
I replace a lot of corroded evaporators.
All they are often exposed to is veggies.....

Copper also has the unfortunate behavior of age and work hardening badly, ie. vibration hardens copper.
Dead soft 5000 grade aluminium is actually quite good in this regard.

As soon as you start alloying it it will age and work harden, it all comes down to what grade/metals are used in the alloy, but generally the stronger the alloy the worse it is.

Copper does have better thermal properties than dead soft aluminum, but on a radiator an aluminum one often has better heat transfer due to less mass/faster heat transfer and the brazing process used. Tin/lead solder isn't very good at heat transfer.

Yes, stray current will eat an aluminum core in days.

It's swings and merry-go-rounds.


FWIW I had the local rad bloke fit a HD Redback core to the standard tanks.

The tubes were longer than stock and we went with a slightly coarser fin pitch to reduce blockage by grass seeds, etc. off road

Originally Posted by rick130

Copper sure does corrode!

My game atm is commercial/industrial refrigeration and HVAC, we have copper evaporators and coils corrode through in as little as twelve months.....
I replace a lot of corroded evaporators.
All they are often exposed to is veggies.....

Copper also has the unfortunate behavior of age and work hardening badly, ie. vibration hardens copper.
Dead soft 5000 grade aluminium is actually quite good in this regard.

As soon as you start alloying it it will age and work harden, it all comes down to what grade/metals are used in the alloy, but generally the stronger the alloy the worse it is.

Copper does have better thermal properties than dead soft aluminum, but on a radiator an aluminum one often has better heat transfer due to less mass/faster heat transfer and the brazing process used. Tin/lead solder isn't very good at heat transfer.

Yes, stray current will eat an aluminum core in days.

It's swings and merry-go-rounds.


FWIW I had the local rad bloke fit a HD Redback core to the standard tanks.

The tubes were longer than stock and we went with a slightly coarser fin pitch to reduce blockage by grass seeds, etc. off road

ok everything corrodes. what i meant is not as fast as alloy. but i guess i stand corrected there too, to some extent.

still, as i said, cost me less to get my copper rad re-cored than anything else so in my opinion that is the best way to go. if i was to get an alloy one i would only get a quality one and they are priced far more than re-coring copper so won't ever happen. my tdi is cooling beautifully since ive completely overhauled my cooling system, so no real need for anything else. i would never put anything cheap and nasty in it's place, i love that car too much.