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Thread: 97 D1 3.9 V8 electrical issues, engine stalls when hot. pulling my hair out!

  1. #1
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    97 D1 3.9 V8 electrical issues, engine stalls when hot. pulling my hair out!

    Sorry for such a long post, I need help or fresh ideas.

    Around a month and a half ago I purchased a 97 D1 V8 on duel fuel to replace the 200tdi Defender that I regrettably had to sell last year.
    the car itself is in awesome condition for its age and has under 200k km on the clock so its fairly low k's. The PO has spent a small fortune on maintenance with his trusted mechanic. I was at the time confident that this was a good buy and very unlikely to be someone else's problem.
    All was great for the first 2 weeks, then one night without warning the engine cut out, we pulled over and figured that the gas tank was empty, switched to petrol and attempted to restart the engine but it didnt want to fire so we had it towed home. The next morning it fired up first go, it also started on gas so Im thinking that the gas sender is telling lies.
    Its done this a few more times since while I try to diagnose the fault. It happens when the engine reaches a certain temp, it looses spark and will remain this way until the component causing the issue cools down and allows the engine to restart, well this is my theory on the problem after much research thanks to google and various forums in general.
    The problem is present on both fuels so Ive ruled out any fuel pump or filter issues for the moment.
    The PO had a "Powerspark" distributor and coil fitted aprox 2 1/2 years ago.
    I have gone through the following in an attempt to resolve the issue.

    Tested ignition system as per LR Disco WS manual at least 3 or 4 times, both while engine is cold and at fault and cant find any reasons to suspect ignition system components at least as far as WS manual is concerned.

    Replaced
    Ignition Amplifier Module as it seamed the logical thing to have gone wrong.
    Coil HT lead as I wasnt happy with the resistance of the old lead.
    Swapped coil for known good unit, however made little to no difference.

    Cleaned all electrical connections, plugs, earths, etc in engine bay, fuses and relays as well as ecu plugs etc in front foot wells. Also tightened any female spade connectors I could.

    Tested and found
    Distributor pick up, Resistance tested when fault present at 3250 ohms, within spec according to my manuals. I did find that the pick up coil had separated from the magnet so I cleaned the area and glued it back in place as a temporary measure. I also found that there was no air gap so I reset the air gap to .25 mm within the specification set out in the manual. Im suspect of this unit however Im not fully convinced that replacing it will solve the issue.
    Engine security ecu, bypassed the immobilizer function by bridging the two orange/black trace wires into terminals 10 and 11 of the output plug, this made no difference. I did remove the unit and open it up to inspect the PCB as the green case has a crack in it, found nothing untoward other then a possible small scorch mark, all soldered joints are intact. I found out the hard way after removing the center dash that this car hasnt got the frail spider unit.
    Ignition switch, tests and operates ok, nothing obvious jumped out at me at least.
    ECU fuel temp sensor, I cant recall the results of resistance tests however Im satisfied its working ok.
    ECU ECT sensor, Tested with jacket water cold and hot while in fault, resistance when hot came in around 200 ohms, according to what Ive read this puts the jacket water temp in the region of 100 deg C. I also tested the cluster gauge sender as the cluster gauge was reading normal operating temp when fault presents itself. I trust neither of these sensors and intend on replacing both. not sure if they are related to the problem though.
    TPS, tested resistance through its range and from memory resistance decreases as throttle is opened, I was using a digital meter so couldnt tell if it has any sticky spots.
    Vacuum Advance unit was tested ok.
    Stepper motor/Idle bleed valve, appears to be working fine, the PO told me it was replaced in the last 6-12 months, not sure what breed the replacement his mechanic installed is though.
    Tested some of the electrical leads associated with the above components where possible, much of the wiring has been sheaved with that black corrugated conduit and is semi untraceable without a suitable assistant.
    I have as yet not tested any relays but will do so when I get the time.
    I found the Airflow sensor to be covered in red dirt, I removed it, took the ends off and cleaned with electrical cleaner and tested it for earth faults but it seams to be ok.
    The only other component Im unsure of is the charcoal canister purge valve, I have been unable to inspect it, but im not sure if it could be in any way related to my problem.


    Im reaching the end of what I can do to solve this issue, I dont want to go down the path of replacing expensive components only to find that the problem is still present. I have already done this to a small degree when I replaced the Ignition Amplifier. Im also reluctant to send it to a workshop so they can do the same tests again and find nothing conclusive other than speculating what might be causing the issue.
    I dont want to let this thing beat me, I need some second opinions or fresh ideas. Has anyone had the same of similar issues and what was the fix?

    Thanks in advance for any useful ideas etc.

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve269; 27th September 2018 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Mistake

  2. #2
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    Pick up sounds sus, from memory resistance should be more like 2000. Search bosch bim024 ignition mod, worth doing
    '93 D1 V8 auto
    '93 D1 200Tdi 2-door, ARB's, MD transfer, sill tanks, winch, 2"lift.......
    '95 D1 V8 auto......gone
    '86 V8 RRC.....gone

  3. #3
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    It appears I’ve lost the zero on the end of that figure. It’s ment to read 3250 ohms.

  4. #4
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    That sounds better.
    As it seems heat related, maybe try preheating dissy coil etc with a heat gun or hair dryer, then try a cold start. Sounds ignition related.
    '93 D1 V8 auto
    '93 D1 200Tdi 2-door, ARB's, MD transfer, sill tanks, winch, 2"lift.......
    '95 D1 V8 auto......gone
    '86 V8 RRC.....gone

  5. #5
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    My thought is that the Powerspark is an aftermarket copy of the original distributor, probably made in China. Therefore you would be best off replacing the ignition module with a Bosch BIM024 one. It requires some wiring and a bit of fab for a suitable heat sink. Be aware that there are cheap Chinese copies of the BIM024 too, get a genuine Bosch one. They're not that dear.

    Lucas ignition amplifier replacement by Bosch 024

  6. #6
    DAMINK Guest
    Had the same thing happen MANY TIMES! Been stranded out bush more times than i care to remember. Had to leave my car several times.
    I like yourself have chased my tail so many times trying to fix it.

    After doing the bee utey module change no difference. Actually thats not true. It ran a lot better when it ran but the shutting down issue was not fixed by doing said change.
    I changed the wiring from the dizzy to coil thinking that could be it. No difference. Moved coil and module to firewall no difference.

    Long story short i found that when i moved the loom that the maf connected to it fixed the problem. Approx where the loom crosses behind the engine.
    So now when i have the issue i grab the loom and give it a wiggle..... For lack of a better term.

    Now my car has been running fine for months without doing it. Prior to that it done it sporadically for years.

    I assume there is a faulty wire there somewhere and when my wiggling no longer works i will likely have a dip at replacing it.

    Quite possibly not the same problem but just putting it out there incase it is.

  7. #7
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    Dredging back into memory there is a wire that tells the 14CUX that the engine is operating and the revs. It goes from the coil to the ECU and is attached to the loom to the MAF. It is what tells the injection to cut off over 1500RPM on closed throttle as well as other stuff.
    I bad connection that heats up over time would cause the engine to cut out.
    I don't know whether there is some connection to the gas but something to look at.
    have a look at the connectors.
    Also you don't appear to have done a 14CUX diagnostic.
    Regards Philip A

  8. #8
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    Thanks for all the suggestions and info so far.
    I’ve had a go at the old wriggle the wires trick but I’m not convinced I’ve got the right part of the harness yet.
    Over the weekend I plan on testing all associated relays and wiring circuits etc.
    After some light reading on the subject of 14CUX I will do some basic diagnosis of the signal voltage to tps, ect, etc and associated circuits for faults, this isn’t beyond me with the tools I have. I don’t have access to any diagnostic scan equipment so once I’m satisfied I’ve tested all I can test I’ll find a friendly local mechanic and get their computer talking to it.
    I was hoping I could put a jumper lead between two terminals of the diagnostic plug and get the codes to flash on the dash similar to how my VR Commodore did.
    Once the problem is fixed I plan on relocating the ignition amp remote from the distributor, I think it’s crazy to have a sensitive electronic component in a hot environment like that.

    I’ve only recently just reversed the bodge job one of the previous owners did to the ignition system of my Series 3 Lightweight, that was all mechanical and it’s a weekend play thing. This Disco fiasco is really testing my memory of what I’ve learned about electronically operated control systems etc and I really need it back on the road for weekday transport duties.

  9. #9
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    I don’t have access to any diagnostic scan equipment so once I’m satisfied I’ve tested all I can test I’ll find a friendly local mechanic and get their computer talking to it.
    You will not get any joy there. The ECU is "dumb" and does not talk to anything. There are some after market basic test devices, but they will not tell you what the problem is. I had a similar problem with my 97 V8, and as posted, it is more than likely a wire or connector problem, rather than any sensor.

  10. #10
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    All USA 3.9 RRCs had a diagnostic screen under the seat.

    I bought one cheap from a US wrecker and wired it in to my ECU plug.

    The connector that is under the seat is for a dealer diagnostic tool and cannot be used.

    I have to agree with the dumb bit as it would read active faults but not remember them.
    I used to test it every now and then by disconnecting the MAF and it would show the fault, but it never ever came up with a fault any other time, although I don't think I had any.

    The reader is far more useful when o2 sensors are fitted as the program for o2 sensors has far greater level of inputs. I fitted O2 sensors to mine but I checked the functionality by also fitting a titania sensor and reading the o2 live with a mutimeter

    I would also redo all the connections to the gas and replace the relays with new ones, as they are not expensive.
    Regards Philip A

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