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Thread: Discovery-1 Electric Windows Issue - Can u bypass the PC Board?

  1. #1
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    Question Discovery-1 Electric Windows Issue - Can u bypass the PC Board?

    Gents...

    I'm still having issues with the Electric Windows on the D1. I've resoldered the Dry joint on the PC board but there is still a intermittent issue where the windows will not go down or up. I've looked at the wiring diagram and I reckon I can bypass the PC board and just install some Momentary DPDT switches instead. I know I will lose the Auto up/down mode but that's no issue to me. I see there is some other functions incorporated into the PC board but again, I can see a great problem in bypassing those features as well...

    Just wondering if anyone on here has ever bypassed the PC Board for the electric windows before and what sort of success/issues that they ran into??

    thanks in advance....

  2. #2
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    Did you do the tests in the G labelled section of the troubleshooting section?

    Had to locate your posts related to this that I read a while ago .. couldn't remember the issue.

    have you checked the motor for reliable operation?
    It's a Rover electrical item .. assume it's playing up!
    If the switch is a problem, then using one of the other switches(that aren't a problem) will show this.

    ie. pass front switch(they're all the same) will work if your current drivers switch is faulty(intermittent).

    You tried the spare switch and does the same, so better to move on and check motor.

    If yours is a later model D1 motors are all the same too, that is they will all fit, just that orientation may be reversed which just means that you may not get the assembly back into the door.
    But with the assembly out and if you're willing to test for a short time in your drive .. use the motor from one other door to the drivers.
    Does the drivers now have the intermittent issue still? Does the lift mechanism that you fitted the suss driver motor now have the intermittent issue.

    Problem with intermittent issues is their nature .. you can't predict when they occur, but does it happen when wet/damp/humid .. suspect wiring.
    I've got a D2 in parts and looking at the very sharp tight radius curve of the wires at the motor body going in, easy to see stress on the plastic sheath .. assume that wiring can be intermittently continuous.

    Depending on the year(or VIN number) D1's and D2's can use the same motors, but I think plugs may be different. Yep they are! .. but easy to sort that.
    (mine is a very late .... 98 build) so same motors are used. Cheaper than earlier ones new .. but also at a wrecker, D2's seem to be more plentiful.

    So if yours is earlier .. sorry can't help .. no experience.
    If's a later(VIN MA ... whatever) then you can 'mix and match'

    if you want to try say the pass front, you can remove the motor body from the gear head(plastic) and mix them.

    So for example if you switch them around:

    if it's all done external to the doors, just install and test. You just can't mix them and install into the door(orientation is wrong and wont fit). But externally, will go up and down when switch is used.
    If the intermittent issue pops up on the 'other' lift mechanism then you will almost certainly say it's the motor or wiring at fault .. not switch or ECU for them.

    if you go to all this trouble with removing and mixing bits and nothing shows up, or the drivers window is still playing up, could be the wiring through the A pillar. Chafed, stressed .. etc.

    Can't help re the use of a DPDT switch, sorry.

    Just trying to toss some ideas, and reason is, it could be something you never thought of:

    I have some D2's (and my D1). Tracking some issues with the D2(when it was brothers) so not much time to do it. Complaint was, inside door handle not working and window intermittent.
    Door handle really loose, thinking easy fix, cable not connected. And for sure it wasn't. Window I had to trace wires and stuff, took too long car needed for weekend, abandoned. All I did was fix the door handle.
    Door handle went loose, and not working on first try later on again.

    After weekend, I got the car again and checked and tested. and door handle did same. When cable was fitted was a bit stiff to pull handle, but not majorly so. Every pull saw the cable end pop out of the fitting to the lock!
    Pulled cable off and found cable immovable by hand! inner core can't be moved by hand(ie. half seized) .. used a spare and all nice and loosey goosey .. fitted cable and bingo door handle now works.
    Sorry for the rant, and you're thinking how is this related. The clue to the window was the stiffness of the cable. so the idea came into the head to remove the window winder mechanism and check for 'stiffness' and sure enough it was super stiff compared to my spares car's mechanism.
    Further looking into this stiffness issue I found about 2cm of built up mud at the bottom of the doors' inside!
    Anyhow, window winder mechanism was changed with the spare and works a charm. Sprayed the old one and is better .. can't see in the pivot, but maybe its rust.
    Motor fits the driver side no problem(it's a D2 tho).

    is it possible that your window mechanism is binding up intermittently then releasing. Is the action of the motor a wee bit slow when it's working?

    Once again sorry for the long reply .. again, just trying to throw out ideas. Stuff like slow motor when it is working can be dying motor, or frayed wires ... bumps and turns may cause it to work .. or not .. ie. intermittent.
    spray plugs, spray motor .. WD or Inox or whatever .. does it help.
    is the rubber gaiter protecting the wires to the doors insides flattened severely? ... could be a clue as to what the issue is staring back at 'ya.
    Arthur.

    '99 D1 300Tdi Auto
    '03 D2 Td5 Auto

  3. #3
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    Thanks Arthur for that detailed info... much appreciated...

    I'm leaning more towards an issue with the ECU as I have previously swapped switches around to no avail... This time the Drivers Window went down but would not go up. I ended up taking the door trim off and unplugged the motor plug and applied 12v across the plug to get the window back up.
    The problem is intermittent and by me playing around with the PC board I can eventually get all windows to work again but drive over some bumpy roads and the problem arises again. It also usually happens at the most inconvenient times as well... This is why I'm just thinking of trying to bypass the PC board altogether...

    My Disco is a 96/97 model (VIN: VA...) and has the Sunroof, etc...

    I've noticed that there is different types of PC boards for vehicles with and without Sunroofs, etc. Over the 6yrs of ownership, I've never touched the electric sunroof as it doesn't leak and that's the way I like it...

    From what I can workout I can install some momentary DPDT toggle switches and wire up in such a way that I can utilise existing wiring at the Plug Connection point at the PC board. It will be a bit of stuffing around and time consuming but unless I can make it reliable it can a bit dangerous if the kids are driving it and they have a accident and need to exit via the windows, etc...

    Was there ever a D1 that came with MANUAL WINDOW WINDERS ??


    Quote Originally Posted by AK83 View Post
    Did you do the tests in the G labelled section of the troubleshooting section?

    Had to locate your posts related to this that I read a while ago .. couldn't remember the issue.

    have you checked the motor for reliable operation?
    It's a Rover electrical item .. assume it's playing up!
    If the switch is a problem, then using one of the other switches(that aren't a problem) will show this.

    ie. pass front switch(they're all the same) will work if your current drivers switch is faulty(intermittent).

    You tried the spare switch and does the same, so better to move on and check motor.

    If yours is a later model D1 motors are all the same too, that is they will all fit, just that orientation may be reversed which just means that you may not get the assembly back into the door.
    But with the assembly out and if you're willing to test for a short time in your drive .. use the motor from one other door to the drivers.
    Does the drivers now have the intermittent issue still? Does the lift mechanism that you fitted the suss driver motor now have the intermittent issue.

    Problem with intermittent issues is their nature .. you can't predict when they occur, but does it happen when wet/damp/humid .. suspect wiring.
    I've got a D2 in parts and looking at the very sharp tight radius curve of the wires at the motor body going in, easy to see stress on the plastic sheath .. assume that wiring can be intermittently continuous.

    Depending on the year(or VIN number) D1's and D2's can use the same motors, but I think plugs may be different. Yep they are! .. but easy to sort that.
    (mine is a very late .... 98 build) so same motors are used. Cheaper than earlier ones new .. but also at a wrecker, D2's seem to be more plentiful.

    So if yours is earlier .. sorry can't help .. no experience.
    If's a later(VIN MA ... whatever) then you can 'mix and match'

    if you want to try say the pass front, you can remove the motor body from the gear head(plastic) and mix them.

    So for example if you switch them around:

    if it's all done external to the doors, just install and test. You just can't mix them and install into the door(orientation is wrong and wont fit). But externally, will go up and down when switch is used.
    If the intermittent issue pops up on the 'other' lift mechanism then you will almost certainly say it's the motor or wiring at fault .. not switch or ECU for them.

    if you go to all this trouble with removing and mixing bits and nothing shows up, or the drivers window is still playing up, could be the wiring through the A pillar. Chafed, stressed .. etc.

    Can't help re the use of a DPDT switch, sorry.

    Just trying to toss some ideas, and reason is, it could be something you never thought of:

    I have some D2's (and my D1). Tracking some issues with the D2(when it was brothers) so not much time to do it. Complaint was, inside door handle not working and window intermittent.
    Door handle really loose, thinking easy fix, cable not connected. And for sure it wasn't. Window I had to trace wires and stuff, took too long car needed for weekend, abandoned. All I did was fix the door handle.
    Door handle went loose, and not working on first try later on again.

    After weekend, I got the car again and checked and tested. and door handle did same. When cable was fitted was a bit stiff to pull handle, but not majorly so. Every pull saw the cable end pop out of the fitting to the lock!
    Pulled cable off and found cable immovable by hand! inner core can't be moved by hand(ie. half seized) .. used a spare and all nice and loosey goosey .. fitted cable and bingo door handle now works.
    Sorry for the rant, and you're thinking how is this related. The clue to the window was the stiffness of the cable. so the idea came into the head to remove the window winder mechanism and check for 'stiffness' and sure enough it was super stiff compared to my spares car's mechanism.
    Further looking into this stiffness issue I found about 2cm of built up mud at the bottom of the doors' inside!
    Anyhow, window winder mechanism was changed with the spare and works a charm. Sprayed the old one and is better .. can't see in the pivot, but maybe its rust.
    Motor fits the driver side no problem(it's a D2 tho).

    is it possible that your window mechanism is binding up intermittently then releasing. Is the action of the motor a wee bit slow when it's working?

    Once again sorry for the long reply .. again, just trying to throw out ideas. Stuff like slow motor when it is working can be dying motor, or frayed wires ... bumps and turns may cause it to work .. or not .. ie. intermittent.
    spray plugs, spray motor .. WD or Inox or whatever .. does it help.
    is the rubber gaiter protecting the wires to the doors insides flattened severely? ... could be a clue as to what the issue is staring back at 'ya.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robmacca View Post
    .....

    Was there ever a D1 that came with MANUAL WINDOW WINDERS ??
    As far as I recall the earlier pre facelift models did.
    Never seen a post facelift model in Aus, but I'm sure in the UK there will be some(povo packs type models).

    So I assume you have RAVE, found the electrical library, and tried the tests they describe.

    So VA vin = later motors = D2 equivalent types.
    Have you checked the wires at the motor end. They do a very hard sharp 180° and look like can be stressed very easily.
    One of my D2 motors is like this and the sheath is pretty much whitened from the stretch of the sheath. Motor works, but doesn't look reliable.

    I assume that you know how the system works?
    The switch has a common ground and the way you toggle the switch then sends this ground contact to the window ECU.

    if you have an intermittent ground contact on the plugs end, will cause this to happen.

    ie. don't assume it's a power thing

    Does it show it's non operational intermittency when you are stationary at any time .. or just when driving .. or it's raining cats and dogs and you have the window down!
    Does the movement of the handbrake cause it to come on/off?
    Under the console(somewhere, never seen it myself) is a 6 pin earth connector(E303 in RAVE).

    if you could get it to stop working whilst stationary and remain so .. then pull the console face, find the earth connector and jiggle it about a bit and see how it fares.

    You're probably 100 % correct in that it's the PC board in some way, and if it were mine, I'd pull it out resolder/reflow all the joints, test all the diodes and resistors and listen/feel for clicks on the relays whilst trying to operate it.
    if its a transistor.. I dunno how to test them stuff .. beyond my pay grade.
    Arthur.

    '99 D1 300Tdi Auto
    '03 D2 Td5 Auto

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