Suspension - Bilsteins 7100

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Originally Posted by reid25

Thanks mate. I may have to pm you at some point with some questions about your suspension setup as I see you're active through all the old 7100/suspension threads I'm reading haha

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Too easy. Happy to.

So Heasmans have ignored me, but Bilstein AU have advised me that they will not sell me any 7100 remote res's as their stock is only reserved for engineering purposes "not a direct fit part". If Bilstein themselves won't sell me them, I'm a little lost on where to go next! [wink11]

I note Kingpin Design & Fab sell Superior Engineering remote res shocks custom valved, so maybe that's my next choice? Or the standard series Bilstein (B6 or similar)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reid25

So Heasmans have ignored me, but Bilstein AU have advised me that they will not sell me any 7100 remote res's as their stock is only reserved for engineering purposes "not a direct fit part". If Bilstein themselves won't sell me them, I'm a little lost on where to go next! [wink11]

I note Kingpin Design & Fab sell Superior Engineering remote res shocks custom valved, so maybe that's my next choice? Or the standard series Bilstein (B6 or similar)

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I wouldn't get too tied up with remote res for a 4WD. Monotubes are more than enough for a grossly overloaded Disco2 on endless monster corrugations. Twin shells and foam shocks wont cope with these though - not even Koni's or big bore shocks, they're still twin shells, just higher quality and with better valving. The big advantage of the remote res is to do with packaging - because the gas res is moved from the bottom of the shock into the remote canister it can allow for shorter closed length for a given open length.... or alternatively I guess you could say it could give you a greater open length for a given closed length.

This said, the 7100 is a racing part. They call them buggy shocks and they were never designed for road vehicle fitment, and even I would argue they really needed to be significantly modded for acceptable long term use on the road - rose joints are not the right part for road use as they're a very high maintenance part, and it will do your head in replacing these everytime they become noisy. You also need to spec the valving, but guidance and experience is easy for that these days. I run the 6100 and went through a development process with the Paul Joyner and Bilstein motorsport and have revalved and had the ends cut off and small bush fittings rewelded back on. Mine was an engineering process and we all sat down together at Bilstein as we were developing what was a radical suspension system at the time (its not radical these days!) - they may be thinking that you want a drop in system for a relatively typical suspension setup.. At the end of the day the shock body is really not too different from a Bilstein B6 shock that has been revalved. From where I am now, I would revalve what I have, or if needing to replace then I would just run Bilstein GU rears revalved (the lengths and mounts suit my Disco2) or one of the variations of the Disco2 rear shocks that companies like LRA manufacture, and acutally in the front it just so happens that the GU rear is the same shock body, valving and mounts that I needed in the front - so they just drop in! It really just depends on what open/closed lengths you specify and then spec your valve rates from there.

The other thing worth considering, is that remote res shocks have to be run upside down. That doesn't worry any user of the 7100, however thats not a setup I would run either. The lower shocks get peppered by rocks all of the time. On a remote res, you cant properly protect the shaft and if that gets damage on any shock then the shock will blow. In a conventional setup, on a Bilstein monotube, the shock body is quite thick and for me at least in 250,000km I've not damaged a shock body - previous twin and triple shells I've done a lot of damage to. If you're still worried, you can run shields, these don't cause overheating of the shock when they get punished.

The Superior Engineering shock is probably a great shock, I've never run them. They're a monotube remote res with user adjustable valving. they need to be run upside down. I think James Jakupac runs them, he might be able to give some good feedback on them.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

I wouldn't get too tied up with remote res for a 4WD. Monotubes are more than enough for a grossly overloaded Disco2 on endless monster corrugations. Twin shells and foam shocks wont cope with these though - not even Koni's or big bore shocks, they're still twin shells, just higher quality and with better valving. The big advantage of the remote res is to do with packaging - because the gas res is moved from the bottom of the shock into the remote canister it can allow for shorter closed length for a given open length.... or alternatively I guess you could say it could give you a greater open length for a given closed length.

This said, the 7100 is a racing part. They call them buggy shocks and they were never designed for road vehicle fitment, and even I would argue they really needed to be significantly modded for acceptable long term use on the road - rose joints are not the right part for road use as they're a very high maintenance part, and it will do your head in replacing these everytime they become noisy. You also need to spec the valving, but guidance and experience is easy for that these days. I run the 6100 and went through a development process with the Paul Joyner and Bilstein motorsport and have revalved and had the ends cut off and small bush fittings rewelded back on. Mine was an engineering process and we all sat down together at Bilstein as we were developing what was a radical suspension system at the time (its not radical these days!) - they may be thinking that you want a drop in system for a relatively typical suspension setup.. At the end of the day the shock body is really not too different from a Bilstein B6 shock that has been revalved. From where I am now, I would revalve what I have, or if needing to replace then I would just run Bilstein GU rears revalved (the lengths and mounts suit my Disco2) or one of the variations of the Disco2 rear shocks that companies like LRA manufacture, and acutally in the front it just so happens that the GU rear is the same shock body, valving and mounts that I needed in the front - so they just drop in! It really just depends on what open/closed lengths you specify and then spec your valve rates from there.

The other thing worth considering, is that remote res shocks have to be run upside down. That doesn't worry any user of the 7100, however thats not a setup I would run either. The lower shocks get peppered by rocks all of the time. On a remote res, you cant properly protect the shaft and if that gets damage on any shock then the shock will blow. In a conventional setup, on a Bilstein monotube, the shock body is quite thick and for me at least in 250,000km I've not damaged a shock body - previous twin and triple shells I've done a lot of damage to. If you're still worried, you can run shields, these don't cause overheating of the shock when they get punished.

The Superior Engineering shock is probably a great shock, I've never run them. They're a monotube remote res with user adjustable valving. they need to be run upside down. I think James Jakupac runs them, he might be able to give some good feedback on them.

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Thanks mate, that makes sense. I am also considering the long travel options from Dobinsons and Superior, although Superior is a twin tube design and Dobinsons I'm not sure if it's monotube. From a quick scan around online, I can't really find any long travel monotubes for a D2, so it may be a custom job again. I'm just after something with some good travel / flex, but comfortable and compliant on road/touring as it'll be 80% that, with some hard tracks here and there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

I wouldn't get too tied up with remote res for a 4WD. Monotubes are more than enough for a grossly overloaded Disco2 on endless monster corrugations. Twin shells and foam shocks wont cope with these though - not even Koni's or big bore shocks, they're still twin shells, just higher quality and with better valving. The big advantage of the remote res is to do with packaging - because the gas res is moved from the bottom of the shock into the remote canister it can allow for shorter closed length for a given open length.... or alternatively I guess you could say it could give you a greater open length for a given closed length.

This said, the 7100 is a racing part. They call them buggy shocks and they were never designed for road vehicle fitment, and even I would argue they really needed to be significantly modded for acceptable long term use on the road - rose joints are not the right part for road use as they're a very high maintenance part, and it will do your head in replacing these everytime they become noisy. You also need to spec the valving, but guidance and experience is easy for that these days. I run the 6100 and went through a development process with the Paul Joyner and Bilstein motorsport and have revalved and had the ends cut off and small bush fittings rewelded back on. Mine was an engineering process and we all sat down together at Bilstein as we were developing what was a radical suspension system at the time (its not radical these days!) - they may be thinking that you want a drop in system for a relatively typical suspension setup.. At the end of the day the shock body is really not too different from a Bilstein B6 shock that has been revalved. From where I am now, I would revalve what I have, or if needing to replace then I would just run Bilstein GU rears revalved (the lengths and mounts suit my Disco2) or one of the variations of the Disco2 rear shocks that companies like LRA manufacture, and acutally in the front it just so happens that the GU rear is the same shock body, valving and mounts that I needed in the front - so they just drop in! It really just depends on what open/closed lengths you specify and then spec your valve rates from there.

The other thing worth considering, is that remote res shocks have to be run upside down. That doesn't worry any user of the 7100, however thats not a setup I would run either. The lower shocks get peppered by rocks all of the time. On a remote res, you cant properly protect the shaft and if that gets damage on any shock then the shock will blow. In a conventional setup, on a Bilstein monotube, the shock body is quite thick and for me at least in 250,000km I've not damaged a shock body - previous twin and triple shells I've done a lot of damage to. If you're still worried, you can run shields, these don't cause overheating of the shock when they get punished.

The Superior Engineering shock is probably a great shock, I've never run them. They're a monotube remote res with user adjustable valving. they need to be run upside down. I think James Jakupac runs them, he might be able to give some good feedback on them.

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My 7100s run poly bushes - available ;)

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Originally Posted by Tombie

My 7100s run poly bushes - available ;)

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I had mine cut off and replaced with bushes too. Are you running poly into the rose joint mount?

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Originally Posted by Tombie

My 7100s run poly bushes - available ;)

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Available as in i can buy them off you? [biggrin][wink11]

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Originally Posted by reid25

So Heasmans have ignored me, but Bilstein AU have advised me that they will not sell me any 7100 remote res's as their stock is only reserved for engineering purposes "not a direct fit part". If Bilstein themselves won't sell me them, I'm a little lost on where to go next! [wink11]

I note Kingpin Design & Fab sell Superior Engineering remote res shocks custom valved, so maybe that's my next choice? Or the standard series Bilstein (B6 or similar)

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Are you wedded to buying in Aus?

Summit Racing and Shock Warehouse in the US list 7100s, also plenty on Ebay.

Tony

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Originally Posted by TonyC

Are you wedded to buying in Aus?

Summit Racing and Shock Warehouse in the US list 7100s, also plenty on Ebay.

Tony

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I'm not necessarily, so will check those guys out. thanks mate. also found that Kingpin can quote and source them too

I noticed last week that LRA have released a new version of their suspension for D2’s called the called the ultimate suspension system https://lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/p42682.html Comes with Dobinsons MMR 10.5 inch 3 way adjustable shocks if remote reservoir’s are a must for you.


Save’s reinventing the wheel again.

cheers,
Chris