Thread: climate control - why is this so?

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Beat me to it.
Regas X2
Mine was like this and aircon guy said low gas was the cause. After he regassed it with Superchill, both sides became the same.

Regards Philip A

I believe Superchill refrigerants are hydrocarbon/LPG flammable refrigerant.
Did your aircon guy advise you of this so you could make an informed decision to use it?
https://coagnl.govspace.gov.au/files...hite_paper.pdf

regards

Yes and I love the stuff.
Last time on my old RRC he used Hichill with a great result , but the new stuff apparently is better.
He reckons that he was told by the agent during demos which included flammability that the EU was legislating 134A out and that it was being replaced by LPG based refrigerants.
There is only something like 300 grams in the system and I have never seen personally or even heard of a failure that cases all of the refrigerant to be released into the cabin.
A sticker has to be prominently displayed on the radiator support to notify anyone that LPG based refrigerant is being used.

Regards Philip A
http://www.icis.com/Articles/2008/02...out-corre.html

Look we had this thread about refrigerants about 6 months ago and I don't really want to rehash it.
I guess the industry wants to protect itself so that it is not possible to be sued.
A car has many flammable items in it , petrol cars have a tank with up to 100 litres of petrol which if it were to explode would certainly cause a fire.

Many D3s and D4s seem to spontaneously combust in the engine compartment without HC12A .

According to a news report in the USA which I saw on Utube which was very anti HC12A , the maker of HC12A stated that 5 million cars in the USA had HC12A and there had never been an explosion.

To me this is a beat up like not using your mobile phone in a service station. AFAIK there has never been an instance of a service station explosion, and how many people turn off their mobile LIKE NONE Bro.

The demos that they showed on Utube were highly artificial and begged the question what about the petrol in a front end collision? The Australian site used dodgy but true stuff that the US army does not approve of flammable aircon. Well DUH! Bullets through aircon would very likely cause an explosive leak.
Can somebody advise what the replacement rate of aircon evaporators is in d2s using 134A , which runs at a much higher pressure than HC refrigerants. I will bet it is infintesimal.

Can someone find a news report please that someone has been injured by a HC refrigerant explosion inside a car? This would be BIG news and A Current Affair and all the other ambulance chasers would be all over it.

One would think that electric cars are probably much more dangerous , yet as long as they are known about there seems to be no problem.

In the wired world I googled it and no Hits at all. Surely if it is so dangerous someone somewhere has been injured other than some technician in Noosa who somehow breached the aircon while working on the alternator????? I don't think I would like to be paying for his sevices.

The pro case for HC. the NSW government does now NOT prohibit its use.
Auto Motive Air Conditioning Gases | R134a | R12 Freon | HFO-1234yf

Regards Philip A

To good hear you made a considered decision to use hydrocarbon in your D2
Just a couple facts than your friendly aircon guy may have failed to mention or doesn’t know.

Your D2 has aluminium in-dash evaporator (<0.5mm wall) that has an o ring connection for the high pressure inlet to the thermal expansion valve (TEV). If it leaked almost the entire system charge of flammable gas can enter the cabin. Leaks on the low pressure/cabin side can be total system charge leaks due to faulty compressor valve or TEV.

Total system charge is 725g or in my case with rear ac 925grams with many more in cabin connections (thou HC would require less charge). Likelihood of leaks very low. Possible outcome severe

One of these canisters is 220g of LPG for reference!
Gasmate Butane Gas 4Pk - 220g - BCF

HC12a was developed for CFC R12 replacement, your RRC for example. An ac system designed for R134a will be more efficient and effective using R134a than HC12a

Hc12a runs slightly higher pressure than R134a

No car manufacturer anywhere uses or recommends hydrocarbons HC as refrigerants

Any highly flammable refrigerant planned for use in car ac will be through a primary loop where that gas does not enter the cabin space.

The new refrigerant planned HFO1234 is more than 3 times vol% less flammable than propane/HC12a and requires a much higher ignition temperature.

HC12a is more flammable than acetylene.

From the link you posted.
One was to use the fluorocarbon R-152a (CH3CHF2). R-152a has a GWP of 140 however, because it is flammable, it cannot be used in systems of the kind now found in cars. Instead, the AC unit must be equipped with an isolating secondary loop so that passengers are never endangered, meaning added weight and expense.


No I haven’t heard any reports of fatalities resulting from the use of HC refrigerants be there are plenty of frontal collision stories regarding fires etc.

VASA don’t recommend HC and warn against it!

The cost difference between recharging with R134a and HC’s is under $200.

R134a or a new drop-in replacement will be around for decades to come.


No brainer really

Regards


http://www.1234facts.com/wp-content/...d_congress.pdf

HC-12a - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the Hychill site the mass of gas for a Discovery 2 with single air conditioning is 210 grams.

Total system charge is 725g or in my case with rear ac 925grams with many more
in cabin connections (thou HC would require less charge). Likelihood of leaks
very low. Possible outcome severe

So the possible outcome is probably quite a bit less severe.

Regards philip A

Originally Posted by PhilipA

From the Hychill site the mass of gas for a Discovery 2 with single air conditioning is 210 grams.



So the possible outcome is probably quite a bit less severe.

Regards philip A

Factory spec for front only is 700g -/+25g. How does Superchill achieve a complete fill with 210g?

Add: dumb question really - lower molecular weight.