Watts Linkage bushes, Flo-Flex v OEM

I fitted the Flo Flex kit today and really wish I hadn't.

The OEM bushes and replacement Flo Flex bushes were easy enough to press out/in on my small Kincrome 12 ton shop press for the three central pivot bushes.
I greased the pivot bushes with Castrol LMM (it's the black grease that's used on Nolathane bushes and is for CV's etc).

I installed the full kit which included the two watts linkage to chassis bushes - this is where the fun began. These are a split urethane bush, from my experience, mainly with Nolathane brand, such bushes should push in easily by hand - not these ones, back to the press for them.

When it came time to install, the urethane lips of the watts linkage to chassis bushes were too fat so it was a big fight to get them into the chassis brackets.

Eventually got all the bolts in and then came the tightening part. The steel crush tubes held up a lot better than your ally ones, but they still were not capable of handling the full torque as specified by LR. I stopped at about 3/4 of the specified torque setting as they were starting to disfigure. I suspect that the steel is cheap quality and probably also the wall is not thick enough - it's been thinned out too far to suit the off the shelf rose joints used.

Drove the vehicle this evening and the clunk noise has definitely gone, so they have worked, but I have big doubts on how long they will last - I think the quality is terrible and they're a bit crushed from tightening and squished into the brackets due to their over size. It does concern me that they are not torqued up correctly - although I do feel that they are probably tight enough to not cause concern. And I'm also dreading having to remove them in the future due to how tight they are in the brackets!

All up, my recommendation is stick with the genuine Land Rover OEM parts for this one. Stay well away from this Flo Flex item.

For anyone interested, I took note of the rose joint part numbers used in this:
GE20ES for the centre pivot bush and GE17ES for the other two.
A quick Google search identifies them as a standard off the shelf spherical plain bearing that is manufacturer by SKF amongst others.

Thanks to this thread, I replaced the two outer bushes in the inner section, with genuine parts from my local land rover dealer.

The centre bearing was okay so I left it in. All good now and an easy job once I worked out where to position the ratchet strap to get the body back to centre with the axle. I hooked one end under the lower shock mount on one side, and to the tow hook welded onto the chassis, on the other.

FYI, the bearings were $95 each, ordered on Monday, picked up Tuesday morning. So, finally, a thumbs up for the dealer.

It's a shame these didn't turn out better. They are bloody cheap compared to Factory Land Rover but I guess that's where "get what you pay" for comes from.

Happy Days

Do you think the torque settings are a tad high. Possibly a typo?

What mechanic, without reading the workshop manual, would torque the bolt to that. Exceptionally high.

Regards
Andrew

Thanks all,

Genuine it is.

Will

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Originally Posted by Andrew D

Do you think the torque settings are a tad high. Possibly a typo?

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No, I don't think that the torque settings are excessively high. I doubt it is a typo as its three different figures so would have to be there typos and would likely have been identified and rectified in a TH by now.

The problem is the interior quality product sold by Flo Flex. The genuine items handle the settings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew D

What mechanic, without reading the workshop manual, would torque the bolt to that. Exceptionally high.

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If your going to a mechanic who is just making up the settings I would consider going elsewhere in future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twr7cx

If your going to a mechanic who is just making up the settings I would consider going elsewhere in future.

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Would a mechanic not just tighten it as much as he could and just move on. After all it's not a bolt in the engine block. There are torque settings for nearly every bolt on the car and most mechanics don't check them before proceeding.

For example, did you know the sump bolts require 22Nm or the rocker cover screws are 8 Nm. Who honestly looks at these settings. Wouldn't leave much time for anything else.

Some are more critical than others and I'm inclined to believe this is one for the later.


Regards
Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew D

Would a mechanic not just tighten it as much as he could and just move on. After all it's not a bolt in the engine block.

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You are correct, we are not talking about bolts on the engine block here, rather we are talking about bolts in the suspension. Arguably a much more vital component than the engine as it significantly contributes to your vehicles safety in terms of handling and stability on the road when traveling at speed...

I would surely hope that they would not just tighten it as much as they could - there is significant variance in this depending on:

• the strength of the mechanic
• the length of the bar used to tighten - e.g. a longer spanner or ratchet will achieve more torque with the equal force applied

These are also components that are designed to move with the travel of the vehicle. Over tightening can effect this by applying more friction. I'm sure there is technical reasoning and research that led Land Rover to determine that the watts linkage arms to chasis bolts are 155nm, while the watts linkage arms to centre pivot are only 140nm and the central pivot bolt to rear diff is 230nm. I doubt they just plucked three varying numbers out of the air and thought that'll do...

But maybe your mechanics magic hands know better than the vehicle manufacturer...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew D

There are torque settings for nearly every bolt on the car and most mechanics don't check them before proceeding.

For example, did you know the sump bolts require 22Nm or the rocker cover screws are 8 Nm. Who honestly looks at these settings. Wouldn't leave much time for anything else.

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Yes, I did know that. As I always check the torque settings when I'm working on vehicles. I have the genuine Ford factory manual for my Pursuit ute and the Rave for my Land Rover. There a few minor items that I would not both measuring the torque - such as little brackets, trim pieces, etc., but anything technical I would certainly check.

More people should check the settings. How frequent do you see people complaining about stripped thread in their sump plug or the spinning oil filter housing. Had they checked and used the correct settings these would likely have been prevented.

I carry a torque wrench in my vehicles and use that for tightening my wheel nuts. The custom three piece wheels on the Pursuit are $900.00 per wheel, I don't need them to be damaged by over tightening.

My vehicles very rarely are worked on by anyone else. Last week however, I had a Harrop TrueTrac fitted into the Pursuit by a local diff shop. I took a list of the torque settings for the wheel nuts, brakes, axels, diff internals etc with the vehicle. He already had them, but at least he knew that I expected it to be measured and correct.


But at the end of the day, if I was paying a professional to do a job, I would expect it done to a professional standard. So with a mechanic I would expect it to be measured correctly, including torque settings. I wouldn't be happy with them just guessing valve clearances on an engine instead of getting the feeler gauge out, and likewise I would be happy with them tightening things without a torque wrench.

But maybe I just have OCD with this - either way, makes me glad that I do most of the work myself to the vehicle!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew D

Would a mechanic not just tighten it as much as he could and just move on. After all it's not a bolt in the engine block. There are torque settings for nearly every bolt on the car and most mechanics don't check them before proceeding.

For example, did you know the sump bolts require 22Nm or the rocker cover screws are 8 Nm. Who honestly looks at these settings. Wouldn't leave much time for anything else.

Some are more critical than others and I'm inclined to believe this is one for the later.


Regards
Andrew

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I think you are going to some dodgy mechanics. You also seem to be bringing in non-critical bolts to cloud the issue.

A suspension bolt is a critical component, just the same as a head bolt, etc...

Any mechanic who knows what they are doing should be aware of bolt torque tables even if they do not have the manual values to hand.

http://alfadoctor.files.wordpress.co...rque-chart.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...014/10/675.jpg

What size and ISO class are the 3 bolts the manual gives torques for?

Isuzurover & twr7cx

I was playing the devils advocate asking the questions but I have got all I needed from the posts.

Thanks for your responses

Regards
Andrew