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Thread: D2 td5 poor start and low power on hills

  1. #11
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    It starts as soon i turn the key and stays running. Just starting is very poor/weak. If engine is warm it starts better a bit. Kind of like misfiring but not at the same time. Like not enough fuel and whole car is shaking a bit. It stays like this couple of seconds and then pics up normal engine ticking over speed.
    This sounds like an air leak in the fuel system, maybe not starting better because it's warm, but because it's been running & the fuel hasn't ran back yet.
    Is there any trace of diesel around the Fuel Pressure reg.
    Just throwing in some idea's....

  2. #12
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    Also, when you did the injector orings & copper washers, did you do this 1 injector at a time & replace to the same spot?
    They are coded & have to go back in the same order, or you have to recode the 5 of them if you mixed them up.

  3. #13
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    How many K's has it done? Does it sound like its popping through the exhaust valves on idle?

    cheers
    Bronson

  4. #14
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    This sounds like a failing fuel pump to me.
    The description you give matches my experience with a dying fuel pump.
    However Before lashing out on pump change-
    There is a good thread here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...-tutorial.html pulling the pump and cleaning the filter screens.
    I would be pulling the pump and confirming the 2 stage operation and cleanliness of the screens filters. Also confirm the fuel filter is correctly seated.

    Diesel bacteria (aka snot, algae) is commonly found in older vehicles and appears like black silicone smeared on the filter screens and in severe cases forms on the whole surface of the fuel tank and fuel lines.
    Common degreaser (pressure pack not the alkaline type) makes short work of it. Don't put degreaser in the system or components unless they are removed from the truck. You don't really want degreaser in the injectors.
    A biocide/diesel treatment in the tank and appropriate filter changes are a good idea on vehicles this age and with limited history.

    The rough running on start cold and improved but not good hot, has me a little concerned for a crack in the head.
    I have also had the head crack in the gallery at Inlet runner 1
    The coolant would be forced into the runner after shutdown and the poor engine would try and compress and burn it after start. this would last about 3 seconds and be fine until the next start. I was lucky not to have hydraulic lock/damaged the engine.
    However as it was coolant unpressurised by compression gases I had no power loss.

    A crook MAF wont cause the significant level of power loss you are experiencing.
    Unless the problem has occurred since changing the injector washers and O rings , I wouldn't be second guessing them.
    Injector coding is relevant for "fuel trim" only to ensure optimum smooth idle.
    It is a myth that incorrect injector codes cause anything more.
    Its always good to have the injector codes for each cylinder correct, but don't stress on it. If they are wrong you can recode it without pulling injectors using Nanocom etc. Incorrect coding wont be the cause of your problems.

    Glow plug are 4 of the 5 cylinders and they do make a difference for first start. But will have zero affect on your issues.
    Last edited by strangy; 13th November 2014 at 07:15 PM. Reason: spelling

  5. #15
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    Wow quite a massive feedback and lots of interesting thoughts.
    Im very busy at the moment and do not have much time to test much.
    Checked intercooler hose from egr - a bit oil but no muck.
    No faults in ecm. What i just realised is most probably i generated maf and aap faults myself when playing around with fuses and connectors. Stupid me but crosses off couple of things on list
    Injectors went back the same cylinder they came from.
    Fuse 2 is fine.
    Map gets voltages from ecu.
    Fitted new vacuum modulator for turbo and new vacuum hoses. Turbo is not so noisy as it was before and pull is definitely better even in city. Is it sorted i am not sure. Have to take her out from city.
    One glow plug not working. Soaked it with penetrating oil every now and then thorough the day and finally got it moving. New plug arriving tomorrow. Is it gonna fix it i do not know and will see tomorrow.
    My worst fear is cracks in the head. I do not want to think that way yet though. Previous owner changed head gasket and i am assuming he sent head for checks and skimming if needed. Again, it doesn't mean that there are no cracks at this point in time.
    About air leak. I have tried to start the vehicle and holding ignition on before for a while to prime it up. It doesn't make much of a difference to be honest.
    My vehicle has done quite a mileage, 357000.
    Picked up my gf todays evening. She definitely felt better pull. What i saw was kind of smoke from exhaust when accelerating a bit harder. How much and what colour i do not know. Just saw it from rear view mirror while accelerating and there was a car behind me, in front of other car lights it was obvious.
    Will smoke test air system for any possible leaks as soon as i find a moment.
    Also realised problem with throttle response when ac is on. There is a code for driver demand. Have to check wiring.
    Loads of little things to check and test and they all are time consuming.
    Next week will go to Sydney so not much will be happening.

    I really appreciate your input guys

  6. #16
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    About air leak. I have tried to start the vehicle and holding ignition on before for a while to prime it up.
    You need to have the accelerator pedal to the floor also to purge/prime, not just the ignition on

  7. #17
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    Do a comp test on it mate.

    Bronson

  8. #18
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    Nov 2014
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    Update.
    I tried to start after proper prime procedure (when pressing accelerator five or more times after turning ignition on) - no difference in starting. If there is any fuel related problem or example fuel running back towards fuel tank then I am assuming just turning the ignition on should give some difference as low line pump kicks in if ignition is in position II.
    Replaced faulty glow plug - not much difference to be honest. At least one fault eliminated from my vehicle.
    My next steps to check will be:
    *smoke test air system for any possible air leaks
    *compression test if I manage to get the tool for that (i do not think that will be the issue as on lower speeds it has quite good pull)
    *replace gearbox filter and oil (it does feel if I am driving on 4th gear and the hill comes gearbox changes one gear down. It feels like it misses 3rd and goes between 2 and 3. Hard to explain. Once it changes down and I release the throttle a bit, I feel how it changes the gear up again and this gear is in this case 3rd. Confusing but this is how it feels)
    *I know I fitted all injectors back exactly where I took them, but, I will re-program them to ECU to eliminate this possible cause
    *I will order and change this crankcase breather valve as recommended
    *I will double check low side fuel pressure while starting and while engine running
    *I will test coolant system for any possible exhaust fumes (do not have any problems with over heating or loosing coolant though)

    If all these are tested and passed the only possible cause what fits in my head is crack from head. Oil level is not rising and oil does not smell like diesel either. I just do not feel like striping engine apart to send the head away for testing if I am not sure that is the problem. If anyone knows any good test I could do to test cylinder head for leaks please let me know.

    Checked some prices for cylinder heads. Found a place what sells new head for about 1300 (new valves and valve guides etc. fitted). Also possible to get reconditioned one through ebay for 650, exchange basis. They say all heads have passed pressure tests and thread tests etc. They will deliver new head and once I have changed it, they will arrange pick up for old one. If it goes so far I wont even test mine to spend any extra money and order "new" head. That is the reason why I would like to eliminate any other possible causes.
    If you happen to know anyone, who is selling cylinder head for TD5 - which is in good refurbished condition, please let me know.

    I will be away next week and do not have any chance to work on my D2.

    Cheers guys!

  9. #19
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    Jul 2014
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    Another thing to rule out before you spend big money, i didnt re-read the whole thread but iirc this wasnt covered, it's in the rear outer connection of the fuel filter's head named "air bleed valve" = WJN500110 , it deffinitely gives starting issues and can provoke even running issues in some cases.... if you replace it make the purging sequence after
    Discovery Td5 (2000), manual, tuned

  10. #20
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    Nov 2014
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    Hi.
    Quite some time has passed but here is new update of the issues.
    Checked injector codes in ECU - all correct.
    Swapped ECU with known good one - no difference.
    Swapped MAP/IAT sensor with known good one - starting issue fixed.
    I connected t4 and checked live readings of intake air temperature and pressure. Swapped with known good sensors and these readings were very similar. Only thing what I noticed was that with my sensor after start up, temp readings were about 30 degrees and started dropping. Once i turned the engine off and left the ignition on, temp started rising. Is that normal I do not know. Anyways i swapped it and it is so much better start.
    New sensor is over 200 bucks.
    It feels like car pulls better also.
    Still planning to change gearbox filter and oil and crankcase breather valve.
    Someone mentioned air bleed valve in fuel system, if its not very expensive i will change it also.
    Cheers.

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