WTF! - EGT's with TRS chip... Td5 manual MSB

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Would be good to see some comparisons from others who have a set up closer to yours.

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For what t's worth, on my D2a, I have:

• Deleted Cat
• Straight-through muffler
• Deleted EGR
• Silicon Hoses
• SERK intercooler (bigger than D2a by quite a margin)
• 245/70 R16 Tyres (29.5" ie .5" over standard)
• Factory tune with no mods at all.

My car goes much better than before I did the mods, which have increased the available torque at mid and high revs, made it much more responsive to throttle movement and made it a delight to drive.

• The thing is, even with the factory tune and all the mods, if I hold WOT for long enough, I can get EGTs over 700.

WOT for over 10 seconds usually means that she's really flying mind you, but I thought that this might add to the debate about so-called 'chip tuning' which seems to me to be quite a risky business.
What can they do, apart from add more fuel, which (and I'm guessing here) must inevitably increase EGT, all other things being equal?

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Originally Posted by Fast Freddie

For what t's worth, on my D2a, I have:

• Deleted Cat
• Straight-through muffler
• Deleted EGR
• Silicon Hoses
• SERK intercooler (bigger than D2a by quite a margin)
• 245/70 R16 Tyres (29.5" ie .5" over standard)
• Factory tune with no mods at all.

My car goes much better than before I did the mods, which have increased the available torque at mid and high revs, made it much more responsive to throttle movement and made it a delight to drive.

• The thing is, even with the factory tune and all the mods, if I hold WOT for long enough, I can get EGTs over 700.

WOT for over 10 seconds usually means that she's really flying mind you, but I thought that this might add to the debate about so-called 'chip tuning' which seems to me to be quite a risky business.
What can they do, apart from add more fuel, which (and I'm guessing here) must inevitably increase EGT, all other things being equal?

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I'm in the same boat as you Freddie, I'm quite tempted to go back to a stock tune and alter the gearing to suit the tyre size. Maybe even just reduce the degree of tune it's running, I just want to be able to tow with it like I used to...

My main issue is with the difference in EGT between 4th and 5th gears, logic and thermodynamics says it should decrease, and because of the smoke (not really that bad at all mind you) it is clear that the issue is that it's overfueling.

This goes along with all the other fueling issues I've had since fitting it, surges in low range, strange throttle response that translates to what sounds like a miss externally (probably just a 5 cylinder thing in low range). But to sum up, factory was better...

Weird!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fast Freddie

For what t's worth, on my D2a, I have:

• Deleted Cat
• Straight-through muffler
• Deleted EGR
• Silicon Hoses
• SERK intercooler (bigger than D2a by quite a margin)
• 245/70 R16 Tyres (29.5" ie .5" over standard)
• Factory tune with no mods at all.

My car goes much better than before I did the mods, which have increased the available torque at mid and high revs, made it much more responsive to throttle movement and made it a delight to drive.

• The thing is, even with the factory tune and all the mods, if I hold WOT for long enough, I can get EGTs over 700.

WOT for over 10 seconds usually means that she's really flying mind you, but I thought that this might add to the debate about so-called 'chip tuning' which seems to me to be quite a risky business.
What can they do, apart from add more fuel, which (and I'm guessing here) must inevitably increase EGT, all other things being equal?

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A much larger intercooler makes a big difference on the stock tuned Td5. I also have a tuning box but it is wired up to only kick in on full flat to floor throttle - and yes it is a crude way to dump more fuel in, but under wide open throttle it works well. 99% of the time I am running with the stock tune. The other 1% of the time I am have a foolish grin thinking the Td5 should not be performing as well as it does.

And yes, in the time it takes the EGT to hit 600+degC under full throttle I am already up to the speed limit and need to back off anyway.

MR LR's tune does sound like it is over fuelling a lot. Could be the tall tyres are making the engine work harder, combined with a fuel map that may not be the best under those conditions. An NNN ECU with a Td5Inside tuning map would be a much better option as Jose will the fine tune the remap to make sure it is set up correctly.

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Originally Posted by MR LR

I'm in the same boat as you Freddie, I'm quite tempted to go back to a stock tune and alter the gearing to suit the tyre size. Maybe even just reduce the degree of tune it's running, I just want to be able to tow with it like I used to...

My main issue is with the difference in EGT between 4th and 5th gears, logic and thermodynamics says it should decrease, and because of the smoke (not really that bad at all mind you) it is clear that the issue is that it's overfueling.

This goes along with all the other fueling issues I've had since fitting it, surges in low range, strange throttle response that translates to what sounds like a miss externally (probably just a 5 cylinder thing in low range). But to sum up, factory was better...

Weird!

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You would have to go to 33s to get the benifit of lower gearing(4.11) with 32s you will be revving the ring out of the car with this gearing, getting the tune reduced is a much cheaper option or a bigger intercooler, also have the centre muffler replaced with a more open one, I had a Vortex muffler in mine, 3" mandrel bend to the centre muffler, standard the rest of the way, also my intercooler was a Tombie designed one, from ARE intercoolers in SA.

Baz.

I ain't no expert, but if you're using a "generic" chip, these are the sorts of problems that can occur, because this chip "sits on top of" the ECU does it not, a "piggy back" situation, where this chip "tells" the ECU stuff.
IMHO, the only real way to tune, is to individually tune the ECU to the mods you have,...a "generic" chip can't do that.
Like I said, I ain't no expert, so I'm quite happy to be shot down in flames.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Redback

You would have to go to 33s to get the benifit of lower gearing(4.11) with 32s you will be revving the ring out of the car with this gearing, getting the tune reduced is a much cheaper option or a bigger intercooler, also have the centre muffler replaced with a more open one, I had a Vortex muffler in mine, 3" mandrel bend to the centre muffler, standard the rest of the way, also my intercooler was a Tombie designed one, from ARE intercoolers in SA.

Baz.

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GBR actually have a 3.90 ratio diff gearset available (in forward and reverse cut), which will go ever so close to stock gearing on 265/75's, it's very slightly lower, but for a tow car I see it as a benefit. I don't really want to chop the guards to fit 33's... depends if I ute it or not.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

I ain't no expert, but if you're using a "generic" chip, these are the sorts of problems that can occur, because this chip "sits on top of" the ECU does it not, a "piggy back" situation, where this chip "tells" the ECU stuff.
IMHO, the only real way to tune, is to individually tune the ECU to the mods you have,...a "generic" chip can't do that.
Like I said, I ain't no expert, so I'm quite happy to be shot down in flames.
Pickles.

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YEP! This is the problem! It's funny, when I bought it I rang up to buy an NNN ecu, but got this big speil about ghost faults and how their tune was better for towing and Aussie heat than anything td5 inside has, so thought I'd give it a go... big mistake, and I've learnt my lesson! Td5 inside will get the job from here...

Yeh Jos is the man. He will adjust your remap to fine tune it to your needs.

Just did a complete engine rebuild @266kkm due to the damage caused by the 'safe' TRS chip. Was never the same afterwards and way down on compression.

Have run an inside tune for 20k now and it's great... even better now the engine is healthy again!

This goes along with all the other fueling issues I've had since fitting it, surges in low range, strange throttle response that translates to what sounds like a miss externally (probably just a 5 cylinder thing in low range). But to sum up, factory was better...

Weird![/QUOTE]

Ive currently got the same in mine....does the miss sound more evident when you let the clutch out as it starts to reverse or move forward?

cheers
bronson

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Originally Posted by sierrafery

IMO you should make a test with stock tyres before a final conclusion, with those huge tyres the whole addaptive strategy of the management might be mixed up as long as the new fuel map was not especially conceived for that by someone who really knows his stuff cos there's a missmatch now it the ECM's "brain" as with those tyres the VSS(vehicle speed signal, part of the addaptive strategy) is unexpectedly low according to the revs and torque delivered at a certain vehicle speed and the fuel map was ''calibrated"" for stock(or max 5% greater) tyres, as your's is manual there's no default value for VSS(only autos have it) so the management will compensate by overfueling.

IMO for those tyres you need dedicated fuel map to not have any issues also if i understood well you dont even have a larger intercooler yet which is not healthy with any remap

can't you take a live data log with a nanocom to see some MAF, MAP, IAT values?

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I notice that on a few posts you have been quite strong on the problems associated with running bigger tyres on a d2 td5,I have one that has bigger than standard tyres, and seems to have sub par fuel usage irrespective of the tune I'm running, do you have any more info on this vss? Is there a calibration map in the ECU that can be adjusted? As I'm not aware of one at this stage...
Cheers James