Thanks Dr Death - might be an as old codger as me - and Philip. I bought a set on your info, but have yet to fit or try them.
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Thanks Dr Death - might be an as old codger as me - and Philip. I bought a set on your info, but have yet to fit or try them.
"I have found the opposite with the ones I bought.
The low beams are patchy but have a pretty good cutoff ... The LEDs are positioned opposite each other while in a QH bulb the elements are staggered so this may have an effect.
However the high beams are really strong ...
I wonder if the ones that dazzle you are HIDs ... regardless of the cutoff if a factory set is coming towards you over a rise they still dazzle you.
Regards Philip A"
Edit (sorry, I mucked up your quote Philip, and can't work out how to fix it)
My exhaustive and obsessive work with all sorts of LED's and halogens and headlights over the years suggests that the element design isn't the source of the spread pattern so much as you're being lucky enough to have a better headlight (luminaire) design, that gives the LED's a more defined spread Philip - I'm a bit envious.
I'm pleased you've got a good high beam output too (mine were virtually no difference, they kept the low beam element connected, and added just enough current (a small fraction of an amp) to the high beams to make you think they were on, but no significant road lighting) - maybe they haven't dumbed down your high beam element, and the high beam side 'fits in' well with your particular luminaire design.
You're quite right also about being dazzled by any type of light. The very yellow light of factory and aftermarket halogens doesn't blind me like LED's and HID's though. And it's easy to tell HID's as they take ages to die out, and it's only very rarely I cop a dose of them. My less than humble opinion is that there's increasing numbers of LED's being used (understandably, as they beat the others pants down), and it's these that cause problems. I'm a culprit myself, as despite my efforts not to use my LED spotties unless I'm well away from traffic, houses, unmarked photographers and international aircraft, I occasionally give some poor bugger a flash, as my LED's are so bright I haven't been able to see them coming.
Oh, another related concern: the ADR's specifically address 'daytime running lights' - the small lights we've seen introduced on modern vehicles as a safety measure - the ADR's mandate that they are switched via the lighting circuit, so that they must go out when the headlights are switched on. I see increasing numbers of people driving around now however with nifty looking little LED 'running lights', but they don't switch them off with the headlights, so they remain on and blaring most uncomfortably and dangerously into oncoming eyes.
Anyway, LED's are orders of magnitude better than the other options, and I'm very pleased you seem to have scored a decent set, and have decent luminaries to mount them in. Still a bit norty in the eyes of the lore tho, and I do prefer my LED's as options, due to their sheer amazingly obscene light quality and quantity. And I reckon manufacturers have got miles to go before they sort out some decent heat sinking for aftermarket LED's, and that the current crop are doomed to a quite short life because of it. I hope I'm wrong though and you've scored yourself a superb lighting setup that's going to last til we're all gone to that great Solihull playground in the bush ...
Extra edit: when considering lighting, 1000 lumens LED is very roughly similar to 100 watts halogen.
So, given an average LED spottie puts out from 5000 to 10000 lumens: it is so easy to put up 20 X 100watt halogens on your front end.
Extra, extra edit: sorry, just occurred to me that putting 2 x 2500 or 3000 lumen LED headlight elements on the front of a vehicle is equivalent to using 5 or 6 x 100 watt halogens as a low/high beam ... much too bright for safety or comfort no matter how they're mounted or aimed I spose, especially when we remember the ADR's mandate 55/60 watt halogen (or equivalent) as the absolute maximum light energy output.
Don't know what the answer is for us chronologically advanced beings Philip ...
Hope some of that's useful for us old codgers anyway ...
Regards,
Adrian
If you would like a good reliable set of LED replacement globs for your D2, I cannot recommend these enough. Ebay specials do not compare.
Also Qikaz 4X4 and camping are a great company to deal with.
D2 - H4
Low Voltage H4 LED Conversion Kit 12/24V
D2a - H7
LV0883 - LED H7 Headlight Conversion Kit Low Voltage
You will notice these do not have a cooling fan, instead they have a heat sink. The reason is the cooling fans have proven unreliable in this application. The H7's in the link show a braid wire heat sink, but this is the old design. The H7 in fact have the same heat sink as pictured in the H4 link.
There's no doubt that Lumileds are a good quality chip. I'm sorry to say, but after much research, these ones are very typical of the oft berated evilbay type product, and in fact can be found in several guises and brands on that very marketplace.
Unfortunately a lot of luminaire manufacturers use good chips like Cree and Lumileds, then mount them in pretty ordinary or even shoddy luminaires.
And alas, both of these are also still illegal under the ADR's.
I also note the H4's are advertised as low/high beam, but have only 1 light output rating (4000 lumens), which again makes me suspicious that the 'high beam' is not much brighter than the low (perhaps by only supplying the high beam with a tiny current to make it look like its on, or sharing the same current between the hi and lo beam chips).
That's not necessarily a problem if the headlight design lifts and throws the high beam well, but I still don't like manufacturers misrepresenting their goods. And 4000 lumens on low beam is still equivalent to about 4 x 100watt halogens.
If you track these luminaires back to the importer then the run of the mill mass producing mainland asian manufacturer, you find a current rating of 2.1 Amps. This means the chips are consuming and producing about (2.1A x 12V) 25 Watts worth of heat. And once again, they only provide one current rating, not two, as they should if the the dual beams are at all valid.
With current technology, 25 watts of power in is likely to produce in reality only about 1250 to 2500 lumens out (contemporary consumer products produce about 500 to 1000 lumens per 10watts with current LED technology, allowing for losses and construction imperfections). So the manufacturers/importers/retailers again spaketh porcine.
In any case, the mounting has to dissipate at least 25watts of heat, which is a hell of a lot in solid state electronics like LEDs. If the high beam is higher rated (which in my experience it won't be), then it may even have to dissipate more (50watts?).
It's akin to having a 25watt soldering iron solidly and permanently connected to the module - a lot of heat, which has to go somewhere before it cooks the chip. 70 degrees might be considered an absolute maximum working temp for these chips, and even that temp significantly reduces their life and reliability. And these poor little things, just like their vast numbers of cousins, are mounted within a nice comfy, smallish space, with absolutely no air movement around them. The only way out for the 25 watts of heat is via the aluminium billet it's mounted on, then straight out the back trouser leg .... which in this case seems to be covered in a thick, cosy plastic thingie (though it could be a heat transferring plastic, but not likely at the quality and price). I would suggest that the thick cosy insulating plastic thingie dramatically ups the temp inside, but helps to make things feel all cool and rosy for us poor unsuspecting customers on the outside.
In summary, they're still illegal, produce maybe 200 watts (poss 400) each halogen equivalent output, are built along some fairly shonky lines, and their advertising is dishonest.
Reasonable quality, built for purpose, not too expensive LED spotties will give you about 2500 lumens (250w QH equivalent) for your 25 watts with a much more solid and reliable construction and no road or legal tensions.
Sorry to be the bearer Jazz, but it wouldn't be right to not say anything. Anyway, I hope I'm utterly wrong, and they give you many years of good and reliable service mate.
And I'd welcome any feedback from any electrickal engineers if I've made any significant blues in the figures.
Cheers
Whoops, sorry, posted it twice somehow.
They have been great so far. Also easy to install. Mate has the Low Voltage H4's in his patrol the H7's are in the Subaru and the H7 Ebay specials are in my D2a.
The H4 has a 8 chips in it. 4 for low and 4 for high. The low beam has a shield on one section. It is hard to explain but you can tell by looking at them they project the light differently between beams. Perhaps this explains why the rating is the same for low beam and high beam. There is a mechanical difference not an electrical difference between beams.
To be honest i didn't get mine for their brightness. I got them because i'm sick to death of paying an extraordinary price for halogen bulbs that do not last. I don't really care they don't pass ADR's. They 100% do not blind other road users.
I do agree manufactures are pushing the limit of the heat sinking. Lets assume they are not pushed so hard they are going to fail prematurely. The only issue is than whether they are bright enough, i can tell you from my experience they are. Regardless of Lumens and Watts. By the way Watts and Heat are not the same thing.
What are we discussing hear? If you want bright lights turn you high beam driving lights on. This is not what low beam lights are for.
I can tell you these Low Voltage brand units are far superior to the ebay units I purchased first, that are currently still running in my D2a.
Right, I bought a set and fitted them, haven't driven at night yet.
Daytime, I found reflection off road signs on low beam and on my sighting wall there seems to be no cut off to the right. It is virtually a flat bottomed V of light.
I'm going to get SWMBO to drive down the road and back while I drive towards her. If there is a problem I have an idea to remedy it.
I can't argue about the high beam, ultra bright and a long range driving light beam.
I also can't argue about the light output, I don't know the legal technicalities.
Regards
Mike
If you are talking about the ones I bought to start the thread, just be sure that you installed them right way up. They can be installed upside down.Quote:
Daytime, I found reflection off road signs on low beam and on my sighting wall there seems to be no cut off to the right. It is virtually a flat bottomed V of light.
The inlet wire should be on the bottom not the top.
Regards Philip A
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzman
[I cannot get the hanga these quotes]
You're absolutely right Jazz, the hi/lo beams are made via mechanical means. That's to enable them to work with our OEM headlight luminaires which are designed for switched dual filament lamps that also have shields around them. They have to switch to utilise the appropriate reflecting surfaces. The ones I bought unfortunately kept full current to the low beam array and just added enough trickle to the high beam array to make the eye think they were full on when viewed directly (ammeter and road test unearthed the scam ... ah, I mean the reason for the poor high beam). I just flagged that for peeps to watch out for.
I share your disappointment around the short lives and high costs of halogens too. That's the major reason I change any vehicle filament lamp I can find to LED's (I had both my halogen low beams fail at once a while ago - about $50 and it took ages to track it down, as it never occurred to me that could happen). I share some of your regard for the ADR's too - I've run 90/100 halogens forever. Just mentioned them in light of Roverlord's comments around legal and insurance risks. In the name of objectivity, honesty to myself and balanced info for any interested parties though, the ADR rules exist for very good reason - to ensure sensible and safe vehicles and driving conditions. And it's important for people to know they can be fined or incarcerated if they're unlucky enough to be interviewed at a uniformed roadside pit stop or to have caused a crash, injury or death. And ultimately, two 3000 lumen low beams are roughly equivalent to 6 x 100watt halogens poking people in the eye, no matter what type or quality of luminaire you house them in - hence the ADR's.
You're dead right about heat and watts too Jazz. However in electronics the two terms are frequently associated with each other as they're a very useful and accurate ready reckoner. For eg, lamps, heaters and air conditioners are rated in watts consumed/transferred. When designing and calculating heat production and dissipation in components such as solid state devices like transistors and LED's etc, we relate voltage, current, watts and heat. Heatsinks and other thermal entities such as peltier coolers/heaters etc are commonly rated in degC/W (degrees Celsius rise/fall in temp per watt input). Therefore a headlamp LED rated at about 3000 lumen output at 30 watts consumption is taken to produce about 30 watts worth of heat (very little of the energy it converts is emitted as light).
And it seems we also absolutely agree that low beams do not need to produce lots of light - which is why I still get a bit toey with a pair of LED low beams producing the equivalent of about 6 x 100watt quartz halogen lamps, no matter how good the luminaires they're mounted in ...
I researched, I wanted 'em badly ... I researched, I bought 'em, I installed 'em ... I fiddled and twiddled and researched ... I realised the error of their ways ... alas poor Yorick ... in the interests of objectivity and balanced info I thence did holdeth mine hard earned lessons up for all to see ... and alas, 'twas hard indeed 'pon us hordes of LED lovers languishing lazily late in the lunar loop ... 0300hrs - better go to bed !