TD5 advice.

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Originally Posted by discorevy

You can use a right angled "0" ring pick (carefully) to get the reg filter out, make sure the fpr isn't cracked or warped , use a new gasket and don't use silicon.
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Mario's comment re damaging or losing it in another thread had me worried about this.
Entire FPR is new. What would be nice tho is a method to hold the gasket whilst offering up the FPR then doing one bolt.
Holding the two top bolts and offering up the FPR was the PITA(that's arm!).
Thought about using a small smear of grease but then thought about grease getting into fuel system .. etc. So just did it all manually and lots of persistence.
If we recheck the FPR and this filter/basket thing .. next time we will will remove the inlet manifold (and give it a cleanout) just to make it easier for the FPR refitment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by discorevy

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You will need to replace the injector washers as this is most likely the problem.
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This is another thing I've found in doing a fair bit of reading on the TD5.
Is it a big complicated job? I read that the cam needs to be removed to allow injectors to come out ... then the task of resetting clearances again.
Up until the fitment of the FPR and fuel pump car at least ran OK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by discorevy

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Does your old fuel pump have any black discoloration on it?

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Only 'colouration' is that it's not the same bright white of the new VDO unit .. just a murky creamy grey colour as you'd expect from years of immersion in diesel.
And a very thin darkened layer of something on the perforated filter type cover of the bottom area of the old one.
No real muck or obvious gunge in the tank. Felt inside the tank(3/4 full) with some clean metal bar to see if it would kick up any build up. Could easily see the metal prod at the bottom of the tank, and that it wasn't scraping up any gunge.

I usually put 2 of the bolts through the fpr and gasket , then fit to the head but you could also use a couple of studs to slide the gasket on first.
You don't have to remove the cam to do washers and o rings , you will have to rotate the engine / cam just enough to let the injectors clear the lobe when removing ( you'll be able to do number 3 /4/ 5 , then rotate enough to do 1 and 2), important to make sure the mating surfaces of the injector seat is spotless before refitting with new washers and o rings .
Also make sure you have the lines to the regulator the right way round , from memory the top line is supply
You'd have to be pretty rough to damage the filter basket, it'll come out easy enough

M R autos told me they see a lot of Discos with the fuel strainer missing [like mine] and do not fit new ones because of their cost, I just fitted my FPR with the head on the bench, i think i would be unlikely to dislodge the the oring in it's deep recess.
The old seal was not left on the filter housing with the change over to new, it would have shown up immediately i suppose.
Geez! I hope i don't get a head scratcher like your problem.

[QUOTE=AK83;2738803]a very thin darkened layer of something on the perforated filter type cover of the bottom area of the old one. QUOTE]

That's likely to be carbon from escaping combustion gases being returned to the swirl pot on the pump , pointing to leaking copper injector washers

Thanks for the additional info chaps [thumbsupbig]

Lines to FPR seem to be hard set.
One line has a compression fitting with a quick connector at the other end(went to the cooler) and the other (possibly the supply) had a quick connector going to the 2" quick connector pipe coming off the FPR.

The FPR was a whole assembly, with new lines and all.

Didn't think of using studs to do the initial fit up for gasket, or at least using one at the bottom and then just the one bolt up top. The hard, fiddly arm bending part was holding the two bolts while trying not to drop one and doing up the first bolt at the same time.

Re the head scratcher: what's doing our heads in is that up to 60k/h it drives like normal .. ton of power and pickup(feels better than my V8 other than between idle and 1500) but from 1500 to 3500 TD5 is definitely better.

Just an update for those interested:

His occasional/random/intermittent rough running has been a source of frustration for a long time .. but car still drove.
Up until this 'shutdown problem'.

Last time I tested on Monday night 10-15mins drive to and from my house up into some 80k/h roads, it still had the 'shutdown' issue.

This morning I checked the intercooler hose fittings(brother had changed them to silicon types) and all I did was violently wriggle the inlet side to be sure it was tight at the fittings.
Jumped into car to start 'er up, and she needed about 30 sec to 1min of cranking. Unusual coz it starts with a short 1-2 sec turn of the key.
Not wanting to kill starter, I gave it about 10-15 sec of starter, off .. ign on to let pump pressure the system, try starter again(10-15 sec) no good, ign on for pump to prime a bit more .. eventually it started with a lot of protesting.

LRA(in Thomastown) isn't far up from me, brother instructed me to go see them to book it in.
Now that the TD5 is aware that it's going into surgery .. of course she's running sweet as a nut.
No more rough running, and as Jeremy Clarkson would say ... POWWWERRRR!!!!
I don't normally speed, but after 20 mins at 70k/h in an 80 zone, I detoured away from LRA and onto the Ring Rd(freeway).
Hit 110k/h torque converter lockup smooth as silk, plenty of power(ie. I'm not a petrol head type).
Up and down freeway for about an hour .. all good.

Got me thinking it must be ECU or ECU loom(not injector loom as it's been replaced less than 2K klms ago).

One of the things that I did as we were making room to get in and out of the area near the fuel cooler spill return line, was to loop the loom from the injector plug at the head around a bit to keep it out of the way.
Disconnected the plug first and then manoeuvred the loom this way and that way making sure not to stress it(too much) .. knowing that it's 20 year old or so and probably a bit fragile from the heat.
So there's a strong chance that I stressed that part of the ECU loom enough to cause a failing connection.

When I got home and the engine bay cooled a bit, I pulled out the ECU, triple checked plugs for oil(from memory it's the red plug that cops it??) then opened up the ECU case to be sure (at least) no oil within .. as well as just a plain ol visual inspection.
Gave it a spray of Contact Cleaner to be sure .. and no grime or other unwanted colouration of the spray residue built up anywhere within.
One minor thing that I noticed tho was that there are rows of mosfets on both sides of the inside. One side about 8 or so all in a row, and on the other side there are two rows of three mosfets.
On that side with the two rows of three mosfets, the three furthest from the two ECU plugs had a different finish to their heatsink connection.
All the others had a nice shiny(very shiny) finish to them and those other three had a more dull finish to the heatsink connection(where they're stuck to the conductive strip for connection to the chassis.
All connections on the top side of the board looked OK .. just a small amount of goopyness to the transformer(??) thing on the copper wrap.
Didn't check the underside of the board tho(didn't want to push my luck).
Sprayed and cleaned up as best as I could both the ECU connectors, so that they're a better sliding fit with a more reassuring click to lock into place.
Also sprayed what looked like a sub connector tied into the black plug's loom too grey 8 way type connector.

Test drove again to be sure it still ran OK .. perfect!

So I'm thinking if any intermittent roughness returns we'll concentrate our efforts on checking over the ECU connections and the entire loom from ECU to front of engine.

The other thing I noticed in this successful drive via the nanocom. The cylinder balances seemed to be more tightly bound values. More like -3 to 3 or so.
On the bad Monday night run, I saw cylinder balances of wildly different values relative to each other. -20's -15's and 10's and 15's .. all over the place.
So the question is to those that have had to do the injector seals/o-rings .. would that cause intermittent rough running and or this partial shutdown situation. Do they suddenly come good for no apparent reason then play up again.

One last thing with the ECU.
I'd always had suspected that the engine has been fuel mapped in some way .. feels like too much power for a TD5, even considering the open exhaust(and hence noise).
So on checking the ECU, not only has it been opened before, but it had a sticker on it from TRS claiming a ECU performance flash upgrade.
Can't see the year as the sticker has been rubbed off at that point .. only the 13/4 is still visible.
Could a possibly corrupted or otherwise not well thought out fuel map cause intermittent issues.
ECU is a NNN type.

to all that helped ... massive thanks once again.

well , no one could accuse you of not being persistent[thumbsupbig]
with the ign on engine off, does the fuel pump make a constant low hum or occasional cavitation noise after not running for a while ?. If there is a cavitation noise, replace your injector washers and while your injectors are out check carefully for cracks in the head, look at the copper washers for carbon tracking .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by discorevy

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with the ign on engine off, does the fuel pump make a constant low hum or occasional cavitation noise after not running for a while ?. If there is a cavitation noise, replace your injector washers and while your injectors are out check carefully for cracks in the head, look at the copper washers for carbon tracking .

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LOL!
I gave up on it, and brother made the call to take it to the doctors!
It self healed :D

Will do on the injector seals.

Early this morning I watched a couple of Youtube vids(briefly) on how complicated the process is .. not as bad as i thought.

I've done the injectors on my 300 Tdi(and seals and clean the seats etc), and other than the cam and the injector clearances it doesn't look massively complicated.

Pump on with Ign operates maybe for a few seconds(10 .. maybe 15 or so), then it seems as tho it turns off. You can hear a slushing slurring sound around the FPR/engine bay fuel area with the bonnet up. Pump is very quiet hardly heard from drivers seat, easier from rear door tho.


Took it for a few more quick drives this arvo, and it started in 1-2 sec every time now. Basically a quick nip of the starter.

After all the mucking about with the FPR(fitment) I'm thinking maybe advise brother that a good overall cleanup(inlet manifold and I/C) and renew injector seals may be a good preventative maintenance job for us to get into as time allows.

When you get around to doing your injector washers for cleaning the seats in the head i used a piece of dowel and double sided taped a wad of scotch brite scourer on the end , I changed the wad every cylinder and the dowel is friendly on the injector bores then you can use what's left of the scourer to clean the carbon off the injectors, stay away from the nozzle end where the spray jets are though. It worked a treat.

I found that I had to use a dental pick to get rid of the carbon on the injector tip on the exposed area next to the nozzle.

It wasn't obvious at first until I started scratching that there is a raised ridge around the base of the injector which AFAIK is the primary seal onto the copper washer. You have to be VERY careful not to scratch the sealing surface
Regards Philip A