Thread: Nulon in Engine Oil

Interesting thread! Here is my bit. I have a 450,000km 300Tdi Defender and needed to replace the head gasket recently. Every bore had multiple honing marks still clearly visible. I change the oil and filter every 10,000km no matter whether i have been towing my 3 tonne van in 40C+ heat or taking it easy in the 'burbs of Darwin. My oil is always what is on special at Repco / Supercrap or wherever. Valvolene - Castrol - Mobil - Shell - doesn't matter. Always 15W - 40 as specified in the manual. It always comes out as black as a dog's guts.

The only additive i have ever used was 'Rislone Radiator Stop Leak' when my P gasket started leaking out in the desert S of the NT border. NEVER use this stuff! It clogged 70% of my radiator cores and that is why i had to replace the head gasket - blew my heater radiator at the same time. (Maybe i should have used pepper!). Verrrry slow drive to Darwin keeping EGT below 380C with van on back.

Funny - Rislone never did reply to my email.

Wow ...what a response to a simple question ... which nobody answered by the way!!
For anybody wanting to know ...Nulon Oil and Additives have a particle size from sub-micron to several microns. The D2 centrigufal filter will take out particle sizes of 3 - 15 microns ... so some particles will be removed.

As for the question to use or not ...

In the early '80s and having an engineering background, when I came across a relatively new and inovative product called 'Nulon' I thought I would try it out and dosed up the vehicle I had at the time, a Series 3 SWB running a Terrier V8 . A couple of weeks after I started using the additive I was towing a fully loaded 18' tandem trailer near Lake Nillahcootie (Vic) when the landy lost all oil pressure due to a mechanical failure. After a short while on the side of the road, I decided to push on with the trip back to Melbourne in the hope that I wouldn't sustain too much damage ... in the back of my mind was the Nulon test conducted by RACV with a test vehicle treated with Nulon, oil completely drained and driven from Mildura to Melbourne, then stripped down by RACV only to find no significant damage to the internal components.
Needless to say, I felt pretty uneasy during the trip back, especially tackling the Toolangi hills between Yea and Yarra Glen. I arrived back OK and over the following couple of weeks, pulled the engine down and was surprised to say the least, found no damage whatsoever. Still...it may have been just luck though.

Unlike the Teflon coating on a frying pan, which is applied by basically a spray painting process, Nulon (PFTE, Teflon) particles carried by the oil are deposited into the microscopic pores of an engine or drive train and fixed in place by the action of heat and compression via friction. It does not line the entire oil delivery system as some posts have stated ... it occurs where friction takes place. As with oil, a microscopically thin layer of teflon between rubbing surfaces reduces the coefficient of friction to a level of .04 and as a consequence ... less heat is generated (great thing for engines), far less wear takes place and all this means reduced engine strain.
One post states that oil doesn't wear out it just gets dirty (soot,etc) looses its efficiency and needs to be replaced. The reality is oil does wear out! The oil molecule has been likened to millions of microscopic ball bearings, but is in fact, typically like a wet noodles ...around 12 times longer than they are wide, and when ruptured under intense pressures can leave a surface momentarily unprotected. These ruptures and consequential wear points are on a miniscule scale but over time can lead to wear ... hence fine metal particles in your old oil or picked up by the magnet sitting in the sump. With regard to friction and wear, the simple fact is water is a better lubicant than none, oil is better than water and teflon is better than oil. If internal engine parts were coated in teflon (as with the frying pan example) the coating would be removed in no time... so instead, fine microscopic teflon particles are suspended in and constantly delivered via the medium of oil ... as particles become dislodged they are instantly replaced by other particles coming through and once again fixed into position by frictional forces.

Since my Series 3 incident, I have been leaning towards the use of Teflon being advantageous and since that time I have never had a mechanical failure of any engine or drive train components in any of the vehicles I (or my wife) have owned. Still...it may have been just luck though.

My current vehicle, a 2001 Disco2 TD5 with Stage 1 upgrade and weighing in at 3 tonnes (car & tools) has been hauling a 3 Tonne caravan around Australia on a continous basis since 2010 and I have never had a mechanical failure within the engine or drive train. Still...it may be just luck though.

That being said, I did have the transmission overhauled last year after I blew the transmission hoses off a couple of times (thanks to those great 'quick-connect' fittings) ... dumping tranny fluid everywhere. Even though it was towing OK still, I felt like something had changed and decided to have the transmission rebuilt to be on the safe side as we often go fairly remote. The mileage at the time was 280,000km and I understand that it would have been expected at around 250,000km, give ot take, so I wonder how long it would have continued to provide faithfull service if it were not for those 'quick-connects'. I ran Nulon Multivehicle ATF (fully synthetic) in the vehicle and found it was a vast improvement over what had previous been used prior to my purchasing the vehicle

I can't ...or in fact, don't particularly want to go out of my way to prove the benefits of using Teflon treatment to others ..... I just feel it's better to have an extra layer of protection than not. A bit like insurance. When you're in the middle of nowhere ... it can make all the difference. If that's what some want to call a 'placebo effect' .... so be it.

As for all of the 'official reports' one can find on the internet .... I would just say that there are a lot of vested interests out there. For oil companies to come out now and start selling Teflon treated oil's would mean that they would have to admit that they have been wrong all along. I think most of us know how trustworthy Oil Companies are.

For those choosing to use additives, for sound technical reasons, keep on keeping on ... and those who think its WOFTAM, well that's an opinion that you are fully entitled to have ... but it's just that ... an opinion.

Dave

Originally Posted by mal blank

I know of a case where a mate fully reconditioned his v/8 engine and applied Nulon oil to his crank shaft bearings on assembly and when he fired up the engine it seized solid. I have also heard that the Nulon particles only get as far as the oil filter and is then removed from the oil. The best oil I have used in my land rover puma is Penrite.

when reconditioning the engine it would need to 'bed in' first.
I use Nulon oil when I can get it ... if not, then Penrite and add the appropriate amount of Nulon additive if I have some available.

As an aside, a specialist I used gave me medication & likened it to lining my arteries & blood vessels with Teflon/Slick 50.. Works for me.

Originally Posted by mal blank

I know of a case where a mate fully reconditioned his v/8 engine and applied Nulon oil to his crank shaft bearings on assembly and when he fired up the engine it seized solid. I have also heard that the Nulon particles only get as far as the oil filter and is then removed from the oil. The best oil I have used in my land rover puma is Penrite.

single post, sounds sus with a lack of detail.

Gday Rapserv
I have been running nulon in motor diffs transmission and transfercase, I am doing a service on weekend, to help answer your question can I cut open the filter to inspect to see if particles are caught in filter or are they to small.
If so I'l happily take some pics some guidance may be needed to open filter properly etc,
Rob

Most people put these additives into worn and noisy/Smokey engines, transmissions, diffs and leaky cooling systems as a "Cheap fix".
They may work temporarily But they are definitely Not a long term solution and in some cases can cause even more damage especially in the case of many radiator stop leak concoctions.
Personally except for coolants I won't use them and much prefer to rely on regular servicing and maintenance to keep my vehicles running nicely.
I admit that I have absolutely No scientific proof to say if these oil additives work or not But I do know for a fact that changing your oil and filters BEFORE they get worn out or too dirty will keep everything working as it should for quite some time, Leaving the services and maintenance to the last moment or worse ignoring it will lead to an early demise of your car.
I would rather spend my quids on new oil and filters more often than is prescribed by the car maker than to buy an additive and rely on that to stop everything wearing out between services.

Originally Posted by rapserv

.....

If internal engine parts were coated in teflon (as with the frying pan example) the coating would be removed in no time... so instead, fine microscopic teflon particles are suspended in and constantly delivered via the medium of oil ... as particles become dislodged they are instantly replaced by other particles coming through and once again fixed into position by frictional forces

......

interesting point of view.

problem is, the PTFE oil manufacturers state(or at least used too) that the PTFE does in fact form a coating layer on the metal engine parts .. not that the ptfe particles are suspended in the oil .. which would then require the addition of the additive to every oil change too!

That was one of the FTC complaints about Slick 50, that forced them to alter their advertising about the product.

So, the evidence we had to critically analyse the facts is: for years Slick 50 claimed that the product was coating the engine with PTFE, and over night the product stopped doing that? (after a legal challenge).

Now we see that Slick 50 doesn't just use PTFE, but they use Cerflon(??) a new improved/enhanced version of PTFE, where ceramics are used to 'reinforce' PTFE .. etc, etc, ad infinitum. (not really suspicious, as to why they don't use 'PTFE' any longer )

As far as I currently know, the company that owns the Slick 50 brand product, is called Into Brands Inc.(check them out).
Into Brands Inc have a few auto oil products that they sell, another of which is called MotorKote.(once again, check it out for yourself)
A quick glance at the list of advantages of this particular product says:

Does not contain PTFE, silicone, graphite, molybdenum, or any other harmful substrate chemicals

Does not contain ... PTFE .. and the wording of the last section of that quote implies that PTFE, silicone, graphite and moly .. are harmful substrate chemicals, and that this Motorkote doesn't contain any other types either.

So this same manufacturer not only produces products with harmful substrate chemicals, they also produce some without! .. Having a bet each way, I think.

Also AFAIK, the sales of their Slick 50 product is around US$50m/yr, catering to the consumer market.

Have a look into a company named Lubrizol. They're also an additive producer, with the major difference between them and Into Brands Inc, is that Lubrizol makes additives that us consumers don't buy(directly). They cater to the billion dollar per year oil manufacturer companies.
Lubrizol additives literally go into the base oils that you use... ie. friction modifiers, viscosity modifiers, etc ... There are other base oil additive manufacturers, Lubrizol is just one that I've read up on.
They also manufacture other chemicals/coatings to cater to other sectors too, but I'm restricting the conversation to the oil additive market.

So if we take the above two situations to an extended conclusion:
The makers of slick50, which is supposed to allow engines to run without oil in them, and hence is the most fantastical oil additive product available, prefers to cater to the $50million/yr consumer market, rather than target the billion dollar per year base oil manufacturing market!

Seriously?

Like I said earlier, have a peek at what Lubrizol do, and the difference between the two companies with respect to the data they provide.

Lubrizol don't cater to the retail sector, their website is a labyrinth of API/ISO/SAE standards and then more pages of ACEA standards, working in conjunction with vehicle manufacturers .. etc.

Into Brands Inc, caters to the more crowded consumer market. This market requires less financial effort for standardised scientific analysis reporting(ie. API/ISO/SAE/ACEA) and more consumer oriented 'testimonials'.
It's far cheaper to make a video of 'some guy in a workshop applying pressure to a bearing' to prove the products worth, than it is to actually do the science on it!

On the CEM products I've now tried, I resisted for a long time, and only having been on AULRO for a couple of years now, did I eventually bring myself to part with the money for the two I got(oil flush and coolant flush).
I didn't fully trust their testing info, and really only made my decision to try the two products based on 'testimonials' on here.
So far, both products have helped .. not solved the issues I have .. just helped .. a little. Am waiting to see what happens the next time around too tho. ATM, I'm leaning on the side that the oil and coolant flush stuff does work due to the difference I've now seen .. just hoped for more!

On topic of engineered testing of oil products, I've stumbled on a blog called 540 RAT.
It's a simple blog, but hard to read through his analysis(you have to be committed!).
He basically tests oils and additives as he can(spare time), is an engineer(SAE, and others) and just does it out of his own curiosity, and then shares .. doesnt' sell stuff.
From what I've seen so far of his tests(and it is a very hard website to read through, or locate specfic info you may be after), but most additives(consumer added additives) seem to do more harm than good if you go by his results!
In addition to his oil analysis stuff, he also has other stuff on the blog, like connecting rod bolt strengths for various products (and vs standard hardware store bolt strengths!).
An interesting read .. but then again I am a bit opf a geek too!