D1 v D2.

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Well, I wasn't expecting plug and play.

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If you need some tips just ask by PM.

It is illegal without an engineers report, but the only Recaro mount I have seen( at a show) was absolutely overdone and clunky that it must have weighed 50Kgs.

In my mind as long as you retain the original seat belt mounting points and pyrotechnic mount then the seat frame should still meet ADRs. There is a spec for minimum bolt sizes also.

You would have to decide which seats you want to fit before you start as the design of the seat would determine what is necessary.

Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

If you need some tips just ask by PM.

It is illegal without an engineers report, but the only Recaro mount I have seen( at a show) was absolutely overdone and clunky that it must have weighed 50Kgs.

In my mind as long as you retain the original seat belt mounting points and pyrotechnic mount then the seat frame should still meet ADRs. There is a spec for minimum bolt sizes also.

You would have to decide which seats you want to fit before you start as the design of the seat would determine what is necessary.

Regards PhilipA

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Thanks. If I keep the car I have plans to make it into a ute. Might as well give the engineer something else to do.

There’s a mob in the UK that make a mount, for their own seats, understandably. I’d love to see a picture but they only show a generic one.

We have/had a 1998 D1 ES V8i and I have a MY03 D2a HSE Td5. I can only think of one area that I prefer the D1 - that V8 rumble is delicious. Other than that the D2 is a sports car in comparison - faster, better brakes, better handling, more comfortable, quieter, more luxuries, etc.

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Originally Posted by twr7cx

We have/had a 1998 D1 ES V8i and I have a MY03 D2a HSE Td5. I can only think of one area that I prefer the D1 - that V8 rumble is delicious. Other than that the D2 is a sports car in comparison - faster, better brakes, better handling, more comfortable, quieter, more luxuries, etc.

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I'm with you there. I have been a bit hesitant to respond, as I haven't been a long term D1 owner, but have driven a lot offroad with them.

The only areas that I think the D1 is better is V8 noise, rear boot latch and steel rear bumper. The D2 does everything better on road, and the only thing it doesn't do better offroad relates to its longer boot which drags. I find the the ETC to be better than non-ETC in all areas including sand. The redeveloped suspension has been huge, its strong, it delivers all of the articulation, its sits as flat as a tack on the road and is very stable and balanced in its handling, it is now balanced between the front and rear when articulating offroad and it will always put power down until it spins, and when it does spin it never ever pig-roots which causes damage. For the interior I also don't think there is anything off the top of my head where the D1 is better, even simple things like door handles. LR spent a lot of time redeveloping into the D2 and I think they nailed that progression.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

The D2 does everything better on road, and the only thing it doesn't do better offroad relates to its longer boot which drags. I find the the ETC to be better than non-ETC in all areas including sand.

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Thing is, the ETC is great until you get the dreaded 'pad to disk clearance needs a pump issue', which is common. ETC becomes useless in this situation. (Local LR "expert" invites people to drive his personal D2 to see that this is common and hard to fix. Dunno if he's right or CHA. ) LR wanted to 'force' people to accept the electronic route, but so many buyers opted to reconnect the still fitted CDL. My car has a third lever for this, and my wreck has an electric actuator. Out of the box, the early D2s were inferior, and LR reinstated the CDL later.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

The redeveloped suspension has been huge, its strong, it delivers all of the articulation,

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Agree, it's strong, bit it's not OK with a lift. A caster correction would help I guess. But that seems to be something unavailable for the D2. Get it for Deefers, sure. But somehow it's not a problem on a D1, which I don't even begin to understand, but D1s don't need a double cardan driveshaft.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

For the interior I also don't think there is anything off the top of my head where the D1 is better, even simple things like door handles.

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Lol. D1s are like XD/E/F falcons when it comes to door handles. They are pathetic. D2 door handles, well, I looked at putting D2 doors on my D1 The handles are so much better..... Guess what. I can't. But, on the other hand, my D1 doesn't randomly lock me out of a particular door. If it gets bloody minded it locks me out of all of them. But it doesn't scream at me if I use the key.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

LR spent a lot of time redeveloping into the D2 and I think they nailed that progression.

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I know that both Ford and BMW tried, but calling the D2 "progression". well it just wasn't. D2 was not an advancement, it was a step sideways. I love them both almost equally, and it is that sideways thing, the quirky LR thing, that makes it so.
I'll keep a D1 and a D2 in my life, because they epitomise what LR was, and what it wanted to become. Both seriously flawed, both loveable.

D3? D4? Too good, so not for me. Like a little adventure, and the D1 and D2 can manage that before I turn the key......

The D1 was great as it was basically a RRC with a more practical body. Developed on the cheap it provided a lower cost way of owning a 4WD with the simpler Range Rover classic drive train and suspension.

The D1 could go anywhere the RRC could go - except undercover garages with low roof heights.

The D2 then improved on this and did get some development money spent on it. It perfected the concept and added some great new tech ideas - but most importantly kept the RRC underpinnings alive.

For V8 owners the changes were probably less obvious, but going from the Tdi to the Td5 was brilliant, and with electronic engine controls this opened the door for remapping. The Td5 used a bit more fuel than the frugal Tdi being heavier and more powerful, but the performance was worth every extra litre spent.

And ACE was the icing on the cake - finally a RRC based vehicle that drove flat into high speed corners. Dirt roads were a blast and with a bit of trail braking inducing a nice amount of controllable oversteer. You no longer felt you were driving a land yacht.

For me the D2 ended an era of what made the original Range Rover so good - a true classic.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Thing is, the ETC is great until you get the dreaded 'pad to disk clearance needs a pump issue', which is common.

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It can't be that common - 10 years and 130,000km and I've yet to experience it. No one I personally know with a D2 who I've been off roading with has either...

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Originally Posted by Tins

Agree, it's strong, bit it's not OK with a lift. A caster correction would help I guess. But that seems to be something unavailable for the D2.

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RUBBISH!
I've had my D2a at 2", 4" and now 3" suspension lifts. With the factory SLS and ACE, and the other mods to go with the lift it handles fantastic. We've got a stock standard D4 at factory height and the D2 with the ACE will stay with it through the twisties. When I went through the engineering process for my mod plate they were surprised by how well it passed the testing.
As for castor correction there are a number of options and they've been available for the last 10 years that I've been playing with my D2 for. Les Richmond Automotive in their White Tiger range offer castor correction plates, and there's a number of vendors, particularly in the UK and USA offering cranked arms to resolve.

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Originally Posted by twr7cx

RUBBISH!

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His view is not RUBBISH - it is just different to yours [thumbsupbig]

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Originally Posted by Tins

Thing is, the ETC is great until you get the dreaded 'pad to disk clearance needs a pump issue', which is common. ETC becomes useless in this situation. (Local LR "expert" invites people to drive his personal D2 to see that this is common and hard to fix. Dunno if he's right or CHA. ) LR wanted to 'force' people to accept the electronic route, but so many buyers opted to reconnect the still fitted CDL. My car has a third lever for this, and my wreck has an electric actuator. Out of the box, the early D2s were inferior, and LR reinstated the CDL later.

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I've been very well embeded in the global D2 community for 20 years and I've never heard of this in relation to the brakes. It normally a problem with fixed calipers and loose wheelbearings, but the D2 has sliding calipers and unless the bearings have failed don't tend to go sloppy. My feeling is that the local LR expert is looking for a sale because its certainly not a thing on Disco2's. Definately got to have the CDL in them though, no question about that! My thoughts on CDL/ETC is that with 4 wheels on the ground the CDL/ETC is better than a single locker, with a wheel off the ground that CDL/ETC is not as good as a locker. Just ETC, on the flat its probably ok, but its not ok for climbing, especially failed ascents.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Agree, it's strong, bit it's not OK with a lift. A caster correction would help I guess. But that seems to be something unavailable for the D2. Get it for Deefers, sure. But somehow it's not a problem on a D1, which I don't even begin to understand, but D1s don't need a double cardan driveshaft.

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The D2 suspension is perfectly fine with lift, there are so many lifted Disco2's out there its not funny. Even with a lift they still put power down nicely and still handle with stability and like they're on rails. Over the last year or two there has been the development of a lot of suspension kit for them for over 2" lifts, even beyond the LRA White tiger body lift system and there is now a critical mass that are saying that you need to have all of this kit to make it work, but this is not true and there is a lot of regurgitation in teh online community by people who don't actually understand the systems. They don't need any of that stuff. 2" is just a straight lift with springs and shocks. To 4" needs a couple of hardware things which is standard to that amount of lift, but it doesn't need extended panhards, cranked watts or panhard conversions, caster corrections or anything like that. They are fairly straight forward, but even at that lift they still put their power down, they don't pigroot, they don't need cranked HD arms etc. They're actually really good and even with 35's don't seem to fold up steering tie rods. When you get over 5" then you need to get into more serious hardware changes.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Lol. D1s are like XD/E/F falcons when it comes to door handles. They are pathetic. D2 door handles, well, I looked at putting D2 doors on my D1 The handles are so much better..... Guess what. I can't. But, on the other hand, my D1 doesn't randomly lock me out of a particular door. If it gets bloody minded it locks me out of all of them. But it doesn't scream at me if I use the key.

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I haven't had any lock failures and they don't seem to be common, but the chemists and RF is noted. You can just put the key in the door like the D1, but you have to unlock, relock and then unlock with the fob. Its a stupid thing which I think they may have addressed when they changed the key frequency?

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Originally Posted by Tins

I know that both Ford and BMW tried, but calling the D2 "progression". well it just wasn't. D2 was not an advancement, it was a step sideways. I love them both almost equally, and it is that sideways thing, the quirky LR thing, that makes it so.
I'll keep a D1 and a D2 in my life, because they epitomise what LR was, and what it wanted to become. Both seriously flawed, both loveable.

D3? D4? Too good, so not for me. Like a little adventure, and the D1 and D2 can manage that before I turn the key......

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Oh, I think we will have differing opinions here, and thats ok. I think the D2 was a huge step forward over the D1, not a sideways step at all. Then again, there are many hardcore LR fans who think every evolution was a backwards step... which I guess it was all downhill since the original Series 1 Landrover. :lol2:

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

My feeling is that the local LR expert is looking for a sale because its certainly not a thing on Disco2's.

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Maybe so. But would he keep his own car in this condition to make a sale? Maybe also I'm a little oversensitive, but I always needed to give the brakes a quick pump to get the pedal to feel as firm as I like it. Dunno, really.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Definately got to have the CDL in them though, no question about that! My thoughts on CDL/ETC is that with 4 wheels on the ground the CDL/ETC is better than a single locker, with a wheel off the ground that CDL/ETC is not as good as a locker. Just ETC, on the flat its probably ok, but its not ok for climbing, especially failed ascents.

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Agree 100% with all of that. ETC worked, but with CDL it worked way better.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

The D2 suspension is perfectly fine with lift, there are so many lifted Disco2's out there its not funny. Even with a lift they still put power down nicely and still handle with stability and like they're on rails. Over the last year or two there has been the development of a lot of suspension kit for them for over 2" lifts, even beyond the LRA White tiger body lift system and there is now a critical mass that are saying that you need to have all of this kit to make it work, but this is not true and there is a lot of regurgitation in teh online community by people who don't actually understand the systems. They don't need any of that stuff. 2" is just a straight lift with springs and shocks. To 4" needs a couple of hardware things which is standard to that amount of lift, but it doesn't need extended panhards, cranked watts or panhard conversions, caster corrections or anything like that. They are fairly straight forward, but even at that lift they still put their power down, they don't pigroot, they don't need cranked HD arms etc. They're actually really good and even with 35's don't seem to fold up steering tie rods. When you get over 5" then you need to get into more serious hardware changes.

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I don't think I meant that the suspension itself was a problem. But there are many horror stories online, including here, of double cardan failures, resulting in catastrophic transmission damage, due to the incorrect angles through the unis following a lift. My own car has a 2" lift unmodified, but I worry about that joint. Never occurs to me in the D1, which is also lifted. . Maybe I'm spooked. You and twr7cx are maybe reassuring me.
When I was looking at castor correction it was when I lifted the car, which was before 2010, when i joined this forum. So some of my info is outdated, but there was very little around then for the D2. I have looked sporadically over time, but I didn't know LRA did it.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

I haven't had any lock failures and they don't seem to be common, but the chemists and RF is noted. You can just put the key in the door like the D1, but you have to unlock, relock and then unlock with the fob. Its a stupid thing which I think they may have addressed when they changed the key frequency?

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More about the handles. I never lock the D1. But the handles cease to function, mostly when it's raining, conveniently. That has only ever happened to the LHR door on the D2.

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Oh, I think we will have differing opinions here, and thats ok. I think the D2 was a huge step forward over the D1, not a sideways step at all. Then again, there are many hardcore LR fans who think every evolution was a backwards step... which I guess it was all downhill since the original Series 1 Landrover. :lol2:

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We do differ. But I reckon we both like both cars. I am not a hardcore stick in the mud. I have both cars, and I would probably love a d3/4 if they suited my needs.
My D2 is superior to my D1 in so many ways, but it wasn't NEW. It was just changed.