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Thread: Suspension questions

  1. #1
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    Suspension questions

    I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
    I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
    The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
    I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

    Suggestions?
    D2a Td5 Manual, Chawton White. aka "Daisy"
    Build date 11th Oct 2003
    Freelander 2 2011, manual, the daughter calls it Perri
    Before I had a Land Rover I did not have any torque wrenches. Now I have three.
    LROCV #1410

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohica View Post
    I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
    I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
    The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
    I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

    Suggestions?
    It doesn't tell you anything specific about the springs but it gives you an idea of what the springs are designed for.

    Front HD Linear will be correct for you. You need HD due to the winch bar, when you get under about 220lb/in the springs stuggle to retain their ride height over the longer term. You would need to ask Dobinsons what they have spec'd at, but in the early days many companys were specing a lighter but long spring to retain a soft long travel ride but it wasnt a good setup as they wouldn't sustain ride height and at the other end of travel the front prop was interfering with the removeable Xmember. You can work around the Xmember, but not the soft springs. Nutshell - look for 220-230lb front spring rates, not lower.

    On the rear, it tells you that it is a stiff spring, but how stiff is stiff because it doesn't tell you the spring rate, i just tells you the spring is designed so for a Disco2 that always has an additional 200kg in the boot. The variable springs can be setup in a a lot of different ways depending on what they're trying to achieve and you would have to ask Dobinsons also how the variable rate has been setup. Some are variable because they use an increased spring rate to increase the ride height and in some cases the lifted HD spring is shorter than standard, or they're running a longer shock and they need the stiff short spring to be longer, so at the installed length the variable rate is inactive and compressed - it may only be 1 or 2 coils, but in this setup it is purely to get a stiff short spring to have an increased spring rate in a spring that is longer. The other variable rate setup is running a softer spring rate at its installed length and then it undertakes a spring rate change after a certain amount of compression. So for example with my blue Disco, I designed the springs so that they have a rate of 300lb/in and then after 25mm of compression from unloaded the spring rate increases to 340lb/in. Nutshell, no probs with variable rate springs, they allow the spring to do more than a linear, but you need to ask Dobinsons how theirs are setup.

    Feedback on the Dobinson springs has always been pretty positive. The brand often seem to give a bit more lift than expected as well.

    By the way, I think you will find the ride isn't affected too much by increased spring rates, you will mainly feel it via the bumpstops when you hit them, so the lift and an increase in rate doesn't always mean it rides stiffer. Where you will feel it most is from the shocks, so pick your shocks really carefully.
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slunnie View Post
    .... Where you will feel it most is from the shocks, so pick your shocks really carefully.
    definitely this!!

    I bought a cheap D2 to part out some years back.
    it has standard looking springs .. very thin coil, and look old.
    But it has brand spanking new shocks of an unbranded nature.. bright yellow heathen things that simply do not compress.
    The ride driving the D2 home was gocart like .. luckily it was only about 10k and 9.9 k of freeway too. On the undulating sections of the freeway, it bashed so hard into the ground .. damned I forgot to bring my kidney belt.
    How any owner would put up with such a dreadful ride ... ????

    So, like Slunnie said, choose shocks carefully .. I reckon these "yellow peril tubes" were cheapo for the person that got them .. and maybe why they were selling the car!(nah, it had other issues). Once the part car is stripped, it'll go to the recyclers more importantly the yellow perils will too!

    My D1 rides pretty hard too(nothing like the part car tho) and it has some brand of shocks that I never heard of before. "RideKing" or Roadking some garbage(can't remember really) .. and are garbage too. Can't wait to rid myself of them too.
    Arthur.

    '99 D1 300Tdi Auto
    '03 D2 Td5 Auto

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slunnie View Post

    Feedback on the Dobinson springs has always been pretty positive. The brand often seem to give a bit more lift than expected as well.
    Thanks for an excellent response, lots to think about.
    As a novice in this area, the positive feedback helps.
    I've sent an email re the spring rates. The kit includes shocks.

    At present the distance between the hub and the top of the wheel arch is about 500mm on the rear and about 450mm on the front.
    would this go to 550mm front and rear with the 2" lift?
    D2a Td5 Manual, Chawton White. aka "Daisy"
    Build date 11th Oct 2003
    Freelander 2 2011, manual, the daughter calls it Perri
    Before I had a Land Rover I did not have any torque wrenches. Now I have three.
    LROCV #1410

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohica View Post
    Thanks for an excellent response, lots to think about.
    As a novice in this area, the positive feedback helps.
    I've sent an email re the spring rates. The kit includes shocks.

    At present the distance between the hub and the top of the wheel arch is about 500mm on the rear and about 450mm on the front.
    would this go to 550mm front and rear with the 2" lift?
    It'll be interesting to hear what they reply with and how it comes up when installed.

    Its a bit of a guess as to what you will get. There are a few reasons for this.

    The 2" lift is a nominal number and they end up being anything typically from 25mm to a bit over 50mm. The other reason is because of what your base measurement is, as there are 4 different specs you can use - delivered ride height, specified ride height, lowest tolerance and highest tolerance. That said, with 1 exception, all of the Disco2's we measured as delivered were at the lowest tolerance which is a hub to guard of front 485mm and rear coil of 470mm (yes, they're all tail down), so it is pretty safe to say that most spring makers have designed from standard springs.

    So as you say, your rears are really good and more than what I would have expected - but probably correct if you're meant to have 200kg constantly in the back.
    Your fronts have collapsed.

    New springs will settle over their first 12 months, but I don't think you will get more lift out of new rears, in fact they may lower it a bit, but you should see a big gain at the front. It's hard to tell with Dobinsons though, because some of their springs come in a lot higher than what they say.
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  6. #6
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    I have dobinson springs on mine, bullbar up front and steel rear bar with drawers and fridge in the back, have to say with bilstein plus 2 shocks these ride very well, freely admit to knowing nothing about suspension, just my experience.
    P38 Range Rover , the best car in the world, when it's working

  7. #7
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    I have 3inch dobinson springs 200kg at the back and 100kg at the front with the Bilstein 7100 and being out in the big Victorian desert on the sand and the whoops and the corrugated roads the shocks are beautiful, soak up everything and the springs are amazing too
    03 D2a Manual Td5 Modified, Ashcroft lockers F&R, Ashcroft R380,Atb lt230, Ashcroft Rear axles, AS manual IC, AS exhuast manifold, AS Coolant bottle, 3inch exhaust, alive GTB550 VGT, billies 7100s, 3inch lift, 4inch staino snorkel, 35s beadlocked

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohica View Post
    I am looking at changing the suspension. The current suspension is I do not know how old. It sags at the front, compared to the rear. I have a winch bar and a winch.
    I am looking at a Dobinsons kit. However, linear or variable? I do have roof rack and it does get loaded up a fair bit, what with fuel jerry cans, water, tents, etc.
    The rear variable has a 200kg constant load. But what does that mean?
    I think the heavy duty for the front, 45mm lift, and 50mm lift on the rear.

    Suggestions?
    I got the dobinsons H/Duty +2" kit, don't bother with the kit, the shocks in the rear are way too short. They are basically at the full extension from the get-go, with no room for any flex. The springs seem fine. I have them in and swapped the shocks out for the TF +3's adjustable until revision 3.


    Comfort is great even un-loaded, fully loaded, draws, roof tent, fridge, water etc sill great. I don't notice any excessive rebound in the rear either seems to soak it all up well.




  9. #9
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    Do you guys know what hub to guard or bumpstop clearance measurements the 2" and 3" kit gave?
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  10. #10
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    What are the front and rear standard height, wheel centre to guard measurements supposed to be, for a EAS equipped D2a?
    If you don't like trucks, stop buying stuff.
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