Td5 fuel pump or something else ?

**Markf** · 4th November 2022, 01:19 PM

Hello Brains Trust....

I'll start from the beginning about a month or 2500km ago. Towing the camper (~800kg) over to SA from Vic. Along a boring slightly uphill stretch the car started to lose power. It got down to about 70kph in 3 lockup at full throttle. When I pulled over it stalled. When I turned the ignition off and on again I had flashing M&S so I assumed below par battery which was a reasonable assumption as I'd been putting ~50 Amps into the camper battery (LiFePo4 300Ah) as well as an unknown input, but probably around 40 or 50Amps, into my aux battery (LiFePo4 200Ah). At the start of the trip both batteries were near the BMS cutoff.

Checked all boost hoses.
Bypassed boost solenoid.
Used the trusty bike pump to check wastegate and it moved freely.
I tried starting it and I got a good crank speed but no firing.
Tacho was moving while cranking so crank position sensor was suspected of being OK.
Connected the jumper leads between the Aux battery and crank battery and after a bit of cranking and a lot of smoke it started OK.
For about a month it behaved itself about as well as a D2 can with only a flat tyre in the pouring rain, hail, howling wind and a broken gearbox mount.
Two days ago I failed to get an instant start.
Checked battery voltage and it was good (13.7) and there was no flashing M&S.
Foot to the floor and cranked a LOT and it started with a fanfare of smoke.
Trip to the shops and it behaved well.
Since then it has become a consistent hard starter but once started runs as per normal - good power and torque.
If it's only been sitting for a couple of minutes it starts instantly but after an hour or so it's a hard starter.
I have not needed to do the "out of fuel" bleed sequence.
Oil level is remaining constant as per usual.
The fuel pump is quite noisy but I don't think it's been getting louder. It does stop OK within about 20secs of the ignition being turned on.

I have two thoughts (the headache was severe). The non return valve in the fuel filter housing and the fuel pump. I would prefer it to be the valve because I don't have to mess around with getting the drawers and the fridge slide out to do that...

I very much doubt that it's an injector seal or the injector loom. Loom is about 2,000km old and the injector seals are only about 3,000km old. The red plug is oil free as is the ECU. I have a fuel pump with about 20k km's on it that I can put in. At this stage I refuse to contemplate a cracked head.

So, brains trust, would you suggest the pump, the valve or some other Land Rover-ism ?

**Bazzle218** · 4th November 2022, 02:59 PM

Have not owned a d2 for some time so take my info with a grain of salt. Before you start throwing stuff at the car , get any faults read. Baz

**Markf** · 4th November 2022, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bazzle218

Have not owned a d2 for some time so take my info with a grain of salt. Before you start throwing stuff at the car , get any faults read. Baz

Whoops Should’ve mentioned that there are no faults of any description as per nanocom.

**discorevy** · 4th November 2022, 03:38 PM

Hi Mark, I'd be revisiting the injector washers and having a good look at the castings around where the injectors normally sit.
Chances are though, that whoever did them may have missed cleaning the head face of the injector washer, or maybe imperfect washers.

The pumps also don't last too long if they have been cavitating due to bad washers, so worth a fuel pressure check as well.

**simonmelb** · 4th November 2022, 05:34 PM

How old ( km and years) is the pump?

If it’s more than 150k km or 10 years I would replace it.

**Markf** · 4th November 2022, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by discorevy

Hi Mark, I'd be revisiting the injector washers and having a good look at the castings around where the injectors normally sit.
Chances are though, that whoever did them may have missed cleaning the head face of the injector washer, or maybe imperfect washers.

The pumps also don't last too long if they have been cavitating due to bad washers, so worth a fuel pressure check as well.

My thinking here may well be way off the mark here.....

The reason I did the injector washers and seals is that an o-ring gave way and tried to fill the sump with fuel. When it was all put back together I paid particular attention to the flatness and cleanliness of the washers and the head surface. I used genuine new washers and o-rings. The head wasn't taken off and it ran perfectly for about 3,000 km's until the first "episode" and then for a further 2500 km's until now.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here but if it was a washer giving way wouldn't the hard starting happen on all starts and not just after it has sat for a while ? And wouldn't it be exhibiting the symptoms from the first episode onwards ?

My reasoning is that the fuel gallery would be full of combustion gasses when the engine is turned off and that would need to purged from the system before it could start and run.

I think I'm still leaning towards the pump with that valve in the fuel filter head running in second place.

**Markf** · 4th November 2022, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by simonmelb

How old ( km and years) is the pump?

If it’s more than 150k km or 10 years I would replace it.

The pump is of unknown heritage and I tend to agree with you regarding age and history. When I first got this car the pump had a "screaming fit" when I let the fuel get low and was in very hilly country. That probably didn't do the pump any good.

The reason changing the pump is such a PITA is that the back of the car is full of drawers and a fridge slide. Looks like I may well have to bite the bullet....

**discorevy** · 4th November 2022, 07:16 PM

The intermittent behaviour is common to washers leaking, but yes, if the pump is noisy or old it's time to get the drawers out if you don't have a pressure tester.
At least you'll know .
Don't bother fitting the spare one, unless it's VDO.

**Markf** · 5th November 2022, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by discorevy

The intermittent behaviour is common to washers leaking, but yes, if the pump is noisy or old it's time to get the drawers out if you don't have a pressure tester.

Unfortunately no pressure tester here.

At least you'll know .
Don't bother fitting the spare one, unless it's VDO.

I have two spare pumps. A "young" VDO as mentioned in my first post and a not so young (~100,000km) VDO. I've also got a set of genuine injector washers and o-rings.
I'll do the pump (and the gearbox mounts) over the weekend. If that's a bust, as you say, at least I know.

Fingers crossed but at least the washers and o-rings only takes a couple or three hours....

**sierrafery** · 5th November 2022, 06:59 AM

Here's a simple test for the pump: Disco 2 - Check Td5 fuel pump HP | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum

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