td5 bad throttle response

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Originally Posted by discorevy

Attached is a pic of a NNN unit I have which predates the cut off in your link for the MSB101330, ( faded VIN but the last digits are 2A716030 ) very strange that they'd continue manufacture of MSB units after production of NNN units.

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Very strange indeed, maybe we figure it out untill the end....Out of interest what's the assembly number on that sticker please...that NNW..... ? Are you sure that the sticker on top was factory fitted?

i dont think they manufactured MSBs after the intoduction of NNNs, they probably had some already made and used them in parallel untill they were out of stock... though what's certain for me is that the odd ones(pre-facelifts with 15+P engines)which were factory fitted with MSB had the 3 wire AAP sensor and when i fitted a NNN to it it didnt run well untill a 4 wire AAP sensor was addapted(i had to run the 4'th wire myself to the ECU as the loom didnt have it [bighmmm])

Yes, the cam timing seems a very good point but IMO that vehicle should have the correct ECU and injectors coded first before working on the timing.


For the OP: how many wires has your AAP(airbox) sensor?

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Originally Posted by sierrafery

Very strange indeed, maybe we figure it out untill the end....Out of interest what's the assembly number on that sticker please...that NNW..... ? Are you sure that the sticker on top was factory fitted?

Yes, the cam timing seems a very good point but IMO that vehicle should have the correct ECU and injectors coded first before working on the timing.


For the OP: how many wires has your AAP(airbox) sensor?

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NNW004060
the VIN matches when Interrogated, good enough for me to be sure.

FYI, I can only speak for the 7 or 8 pre facelift models I've seen the ECU on positively, but as far as Australia goes, unless anyone can prove differently:

The TD5 Discovery up until July 2001 used the MSB ECU and EU2 Engine configuration.
August 2001 went to EU3 and NNN ECU.

I'm also pretty sure the Australian versions all came from Solihull, where as the ones you allude to may have come from the assembly plants in either Jordan or Malaysia and that might be the difference.

As for the injectors needing to be coded before the Cam timing.... nope, nothing will work properly without the fundamentals being right to begin with.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

Has this issue only recently developed, or has the OP bought the car ,hoping to fix it.
I ask, as if the car has been known to run satisfactorily, with the current configuration, wrong ecu s, 10/15p hybred, are all moot in this situation.
If the problem has just developed, I'm suspecting timing or fuel pump failure.

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I purchased the car as is, i thought this problem was simple to solve, i liked the car at first sight heheI thought this problem was simple to solve

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Originally Posted by discorevy

Yes, it won't run properly with the early ECU for sure, but the symptoms mentioned are also what happens with bad cam timing.

Attached is a pic of a NNN unit I have which predates the cut off in your link for the MSB101330, ( faded VIN but the last digits are 2A716030 ) very strange that they'd continue manufacture of MSB units after production of NNN units.
I'm not saying you're wrong, only that I haven't come across it in Australia.



Yes, good logic.

I'm guessing, but between someone fitting an earlier ECU ( and possibly selling the ( debatable ) NNN for more $$$ if , as the O.P. states he wasn't sure of the integrity of the previous owner, that the chances of them ( I'm thinking stereotypical used car yard ) also doing a head gasket and bodging it are quite high.

Even "specialist Landy repairers" get it wrong as they are only as good as the "Tech" working on it.

I have a spot in my workshop where I hang the old rocker cover gaskets over the years from 1 Perth independent Landy workshop ( I'm also sure they have shares in blue RTV silicone as everything from cam plugs, water pumps, oil cooler gaskets and rocker cover gaskets are covered in it ) that have got the cam timing so far out that the car has terrible performance.

3 of their previous customers have taken the car back, only to then come out with a remap as " yes, they go a lot better with a remap". ( the receipts tell the story )

Needless to say, the owners have been ecstatic when the cam timing and bump clearances have been set correctly.

There are 7 old gaskets hanging in that spot.

There has been more from other places, but they have gone in the bin.

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I'm just a little afraid of buying an ECU and the problem not being solved, as an ECU is quite expensive to import, and it's not easily found in my country. In addition, there are still the costs of combining the BCU, instrument panel and coding

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Originally Posted by sierrafery

Very strange indeed, maybe we figure it out untill the end....Out of interest what's the assembly number on that sticker please...that NNW..... ? Are you sure that the sticker on top was factory fitted?

i dont think they manufactured MSBs after the intoduction of NNNs, they probably had some already made and used them in parallel untill they were out of stock... though what's certain for me is that the odd ones(pre-facelifts with 15+P engines)which were factory fitted with MSB had the 3 wire AAP sensor and when i fitted a NNN to it it didnt run well untill a 4 wire AAP sensor was addapted(i had to run the 4'th wire myself to the ECU as the loom didnt have it [bighmmm])

Yes, the cam timing seems a very good point but IMO that vehicle should have the correct ECU and injectors coded first before working on the timing.


For the OP: how many wires has your AAP(airbox) sensor?

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What do you mean with injectors coded ?

My AAP sensor has 4 wires

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Originally Posted by Henryque

What do you mean with injectors coded ?

My AAP sensor has 4 wires

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About codes i better attach a page than explain myself and the MSB ECU you have can't be coded with green top(Eu3) injector codes as it accepts only Eu2 codes.

as the AAP is with 4 wires your's definitely need a NNN ECU with Eu3 map in it cos it will not run well with that MSB whatsoever even if the timing and everything else is OK

I found an msb101340 ECU here.

The tunes on it are as per the land Rover list, both EU2.

I'd suggest the 15p's with MSB had failed original ECUs.

Incorrect injector trim codes will not really make any noticeable difference.

An EU2 tune in EU3 injectors will have several issues.

1. It will be under fuelling as EU3 injectors output less fuel for the same duration.

2. Injector timing will be wrong (electronically), it will be somewhat retarded.

3. As mentioned there is no AAT sensor in the 3 wire airbox. I think it will default to a fairly high number, just can't remember what it is.

4. The AAP sensor on the airbox will also misread, reading lower than actual by 10 kPa (from memory) further reducing performance, and in some situations possibly changing injector timing.

All of that said, the vehicle should still run ok ish... But underpowered. Maybe 15%.

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Originally Posted by sierrafery

i've seen several 2002MY pre-facelifts factory fitted with 15P engines and MSB101330/340 and most of those ECUs have failed.

i doubt that they were "clean" Eu3s cos even though they were 15P with green injectors they have the 3 wire AAP sensor not the 4 wire one with temperature input which is necessary for Eu3 fuel maps so a kind of strange "hybrid", the transition to Eu3 NNNs.

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As Shack has suggested ( ok, he didn't suggest this but might have alluded to it :) there's a strong possibility the "several" pre facelifts you have seen, have had the NNN ECU and AAP sensor along with the connector and wire swapped out for early ones, with the only other possibility being, as I previously mentioned , incorrect assembly in the non U.K. assembly plants

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Originally Posted by Henryque

I'm just a little afraid of buying an ECU and the problem not being solved, as an ECU is quite expensive to import, and it's not easily found in my country. In addition, there are still the costs of combining the BCU, instrument panel and coding

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What you can do is. Check that when you first turn ign on ( no need to start ) that the green M and S lights do a self check and stay on along with the other dash lights for about 3 seconds.

This tells us that they haven't also done a dodgey on the auto and they've taken those globes out with the auto being in limp mode (3rd gear) which would also give what feels like massive lag. If that is all ok and you have all gears, then.

Remove your Cam cover, check and Correct the Cam timing as this is more than likely out, also injector bump clearances.

There's info on here, about how to do it, you don't strictly need the timing pins if you have a decent range of drill bits.

If you get stuck get back on here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Henryque

What do you mean with injectors coded ?

My AAP sensor has 4 wires

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We've established that someone has either pinched or otherwise removed the NNN ECU, but do what you can with what you have and don't stress about the injector trim coding until you have the gear to do it, along with NNN ECU.

You will at least be able to drive it after addressing the above.

Cheers