Thread: Guinea pig?

Originally Posted by Tins

..... The other thing is that jubilee style clamps can easily be over or under tightened. Only experience can tell, and people have different approaches.

And that was really my point.
Spring clips just make it quicker and easier to install assemblies that require clamps. Whether that equates to unit cost of the clamp, or the time taken to install the clamps that's a cost saving.

But I see so many comments that springs clips have constant tension, and thus are better for whatever questionable engineering reason .. never seen any tests, or engineering papers showing evidence for that reasoning.

And .. yet, they are so much better, but for some reason the less capable jubilee/worm/hose tearing constant tension clamps are used on the turbo hoses?
This makes no sense, and I've never heard anyone switch from jubilee clamps to spring clamps for the turbo hoses to stop them popping off(good luck trying).

My comment was only that the reason spring clamps exist is that it's cheaper for the manufacturer to use them on the assembly line, because that are in effect a 'no brainer' part(relative to a worm drive clamp).
The assembler/mechanic doesn't have to get the tension 'just right', with the spring clamp too
Also the manufacturer doesn't have to have special tools like auto-preset tensioning tools so that workers don't get install wrong(such tools will also need calibrating)... etc.

But where the added cost of a worm drive clamp is required, they have to accept the additional cost of it.

I think of them like the modern plastic/aluminium radiator. For nearly 100 years brass/copper combos were used to great effect and usually lasted a very long time ... etc. But suddenly manufacturers started to switch to plastic crimped alloy core units.
Are these better because they suddenly became the default?
Copper rads are heavier, costlier and probably prone to some other issue or whatever, so manufacturers saved tons of money with the switch.

PF may or may not be the most scientific youtuber out there, but the purpose of that link was to show that three clamps failed with low scores in his test, the anomaly being that the clamp size was too large for the hose, but the constant tension clamps still did so much better in that marginal situation than the spring clamp.

Side note: On my D2a, which I got RWC for last Nov ... I had this anomaly type situation. The waterpump was showing leaking, so being the prudent good little vegiemite that I am, before I started working to fix, I bought the water pump and associated other bits I thought I needed. I got the o-ring with the mindset that last time that damned thing was so hard to do with everything around it, least stressful approach was to use the replace the o-ring method, i.e take everything off.

Idiot! .. I should have dismantled first and save myself the $s(no drama, it's a td5! .. waterpump will need doing at some point )
I didn't see the drip/trail trail of dry coolant coming from higher up above at the rear hose!, so when time came to disassemble, then I noticed it properly .. ah .. damned stupid hose clamp wonky or something.
Drained coolant fitted a clamp but then saw its coming from higher again at the sensor outlet port. AHHH!! stupid clamps(or so I thought), replaced with worm drive and then under pressure didn't leak.
All together again, and then I hit me, that hose went on way too easy, as in it felt slippery slidey, but hoses not loosey goosey .. was old, but not 20+ years of hard use type old.
Took it off again, and then poked about and there was this slippery buildup on the (sensor) outlet port. Kind of waxy or something. Never seen this ever. I seen crusty residue and rust and pitting, but not this waxy kind of stuff. Clipped a bit away and it flaked off.

So the outlet port has this waxy goop I want to clean, but had to remove it to clean all the way around, so that means AC compressor off. And that where I found the 'waterpump leak' all that was was the build up of coolant in the webbing under the AC and then sometimes leaking and sometimes not. Took some time to fully clean this way greasy stuff off, and no idea what it was other than the same (pink)colour of the coolant the previous owner(s) used .. consistency of soap kind'a thing.
Once all cleaned and same thing with the rear waterpump hose too(had it too). no other hose port had it tho.
Anyway, the worm clamp did stop it leaking, and only got in deeper and fixed properly due to curiosity. Once cleaned, I'm sure the std clamps would have sealed up right, but I have my alternate preference.

Originally Posted by AK83

And that was really my point.
Spring clips just make it quicker and easier to install assemblies that require clamps. Whether that equates to unit cost of the clamp, or the time taken to install the clamps that's a cost saving.






I think of them like the modern plastic/aluminium radiator. For nearly 100 years brass/copper combos were used to great effect and usually lasted a very long time ... etc. But suddenly manufacturers started to switch to plastic crimped alloy core units.
Are these better because they suddenly became the default?
Copper rads are heavier, costlier and probably prone to some other issue or whatever, so manufacturers saved tons of money with the switch.

PF may or may not be the most scientific youtuber out there, but the purpose of that link was to show that three clamps failed with low scores in his test, the anomaly being that the clamp size was too large for the hose, but the constant tension clamps still did so much better in that marginal situation than the spring clamp.



.

OK, it all makes sense, Arthur. But 15 psi, or whatever that is in Newspeak, ain't much. If the rad hoses pop off you probably have a head gasket sized fish to fry. Cost of course is a big issue. The difference may be 5¢ a unit, but multiply that by the number of clamps per vehicle times the number of vehicles, well you get where I'm going. But the factory probably had robots to tighten, or at least torque limited power tools. The gorilla at ultratune does not. And the cars are up to 25 years old, and people will have changed the clamps at some point, and the quality of Jungle Store clamps is, well, about as good as their fuses and crimp connectors.

The radiator thing is totally different. For decades, manufacturers have had to deal with more and more onerous regs regarding emissions and consumption. Alloy rads were introduced to cut costs, sure, ( The price of copper is eyewatering ) but the main reasons were weight, as that effects consumption, and thermal transfer. Alloy can be made thinner, and the plastic tanks are also lighter, but the main thing is fast warm up, vital to meet emissions goals. Same reason we're lumbered with that expensive thermostat, I guess.

You mention the turbo hose clamps... Funny, but they are the only ones that look like cutting through the hoses, and I have owned my car for 16 years and this is the first time I've changed the hoses. slack, I know. It's possible the shop that did the HG under warranty changed them, but that was, well, 16 years ago, as it blew in the first month of my ownership ( stupid plastic dowells, and an auspicious start to my LR ownership..... ).

But hey, whatever works. I like the spring clamps, but as mentioned before, I hate the tool I have to open them. $60 of bloody minded garbage. Sure, it does the job, but amid much swearing. I wonder if Milwaukee make one...., no, on second thoughts, I couldn't afford it if they did.