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My question was actually to Andyrover, not yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Panzer
Yours is a good set up though for those that hope they will never have to use their winch and mainly have it as a safety factor.
When you come to use your winch you will find that the cable winding up on one side of the drum is important when getting yourself out of a sticky situation.
my apologies, I wasn't being "funny" in my answer at all....(may have sounded like that)
As far as the cable all bunching up on one end of the drum, yes Im sure that can be an issue. I have a "little" more to play with as I have a synthetic winch rope as I felt the cables are to dangerous "if" they snap, + replacing with a synthetic rope knocks a LOT of weight of as well.
The winch instructions tell you that when pulling in a load, its not to much of an issue when the cable self spools onto the drum, but for me personally, I would always spool it off an back on neatly again before re-using it anyway.
Just my thoughts ;)
Neither rope or cable will spool correctly if the pull is off centre. The building up on one side is unlikely to cause the cable to break, but it will either cause the winch to jam badly or it will break the cross support bars on the back/top of the winch drum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Panzer
Rope will not spool anywhere near as well as cable as it tends to flatten out and therefore does not have the height to force the next loop across the drum.
You're quite right, this installation is for those who hope they don't need to use a winch! I fitted mine because I got stuck on the long weekend in June miles from civilisation and was very lucky to have a 4wd club from Sydney come along the same track the next day (after a freezing night)and pull me out (with an old Land Cruiser - very embarrassing). Looking at the bog site again, I thought I saw a way out of it, using a winch, if only I had one...
Now I've had a couple practice pulls with my new winch, I can see that cable buildup on one side is definitely an issue. What can be done about it?
I believe both installations shown on this thread are using the same basic kit from Bearmach in the UK, imported into Australia by Troutbeck. This fits so well into the bumper mounting, it could almost be a factory option. I think for anyone wanting the security of having a winch without the ironmongery of a bullbar, this is it!
I never meant the cable breaking as a result of spooling, I meant in "general" use anytime, they can be lethal. Ropes can also be spliced in the field, where as a cable is useless once it breaks.Quote:
Originally Posted by r.over
I have to disagree ref the spooling tbh, as the cable has a mind of its own just due to its stiffness when spooled round the drum. The rope lays flatter and as you correctly stated it flattens out under load, therefore you could spool more rope in the same space.
Your original point ref seeing the cable on the drum, well I would not be stood anywhere near the winch when using it especially when its a steel cable incase it does break.
And I dont understand why your saying its an install for those that "Hope" they never use it, this has no validity in my opinion. Just because its discrete has no bearing on how much its used. I just did not want an ugly winch stuck out the front of the car + I wanted to retain the factory bumper / look.
Correct spooling, each loop laying neatly next to each other, is caused by the previous spool pushing the cable across the drum as it winds on. To push it across it needs height. Round steel cable will push across better than flat rope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Panzer
I think that once you have used it a few times, particularly if you get caught in a mud hole, you will soon understand what I am saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Panzer
All you can do is keep an eye on it. If it winds up too much on one side you will need to secure the vehicle, wind out some cable and wind it back on properly by hand and then keep on winching.Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrover
Just to add a wire cable isnt useless if it breaks. You can buy cable joiners for next to nothing. We once broke a new wire cable on the first stage of a comp when my driver pressed the switch the wrong way and it broke instantly (still connected to front bumper)
Used 3 cable clamps and it was fine for the rest of the event.
Obviously chaninging it was the best solution but in an emergency most things can be repaired.
It also only took about 5 minutes while splicing would have taken a lot longer than that.
Cheers
Well this is my spiel for fitting a winch to a non winch fitted bull bar on a Discovery II, it would probably be the same on a Disco I, certainly a lot easier on pre passenger air bag vehicles. It could also be used, with the exception of the bull bar comments, to fit a winch to a non barred vehicle.
As the vehicle has air bags I believe it is illegal to fit anything ahead of (or alter) the 'crush cans', besides there is a warning sticker on the ARB (non winch) bar stating that 'NO MODIFICATIONS' are allowed. Apart from the legal side it appeared to me that the further back the winch could be mounted the less weight would be swinging out (pendulum effect) on the front of the vehicle.
Photo and photo would've ifn I could've
I purchased a cradle for the winch (evilbay) and modified it to fit my way, if sourcing a cradle it only needs one 610mm wide if you are following this set up, the winch is not symmetrical, the motor side is longer than the gearbox side, it seems the same with all brands though mine is a 'Ridge Rider'. If I were doing it again I would probably offset the winch 13mm to the passenger side, this wouldn't cause a problem when winching but would give a little more clearance for the winch motor to the mounting bolts.
Disconnect the wiring from the indicator repeaters and the hoses from the headlight washers if fitted then undo the bar mounts and remove the bull bar.
Now undo and remove the 'crush cans' and steering protector, on mine the cans had been deformed slightly and squeezed into the mounting holes making them rather hard to move forwards and free.
The chassis member at the front is quite short, if the cans will not come away freely simply force them downwards and they will lever off the chassis.
I modified the cradle by cutting some of the back lip off so that it would sit back to the front cross member, I also had to trim one (1) of the flanges that strengthen the electric A/C fan. The front 'x' member has gussets welded in each corner, I ensured the cradle would fit back between them.
The cradle was narrowed to 605mm, to have the sides fitted, using the cut offs from the base of the cradle making the overall width 615mm (the distance between chassis rails with crush cans in place), if narrower not a problem as spacers could be used, too wide and it simply wouldn't fit between the chassis rails.
Holes were now drilled into the upturned sections of the cradle to suit the spacing and size of the holes in the chassis, the sides come down alongside the chassis rails and are bolted through. The original bolts were too thin, that is, they wallowed through the chassis allowing movement, I wanted a more secure fit so 14mm bolts were used.
In fitting the winch this way I have managed to get the weight back behind the crush cans, this helps balance, does not affect the air bag fitting as it is not strengthening nor adding weight to the bull bar.
To actually fit the winch once the cradle has been finished using a floor jack, then offer up the crush cans line it up with the mounting bolts, fit the two RH side bolts loosely into the holes, there is not enough room to feed the bolts through with the winch in place, fitting back the steering protector at the same time. The captive (not very though) nuts in the winch mount were taped in place, the winch is then moved around to line up the four mounting bolts which are tensioned as required, the winch and cradle are jacked into place, levering the LH side up alongside the chassis.
The Bull Bar then had two 40mm holes cut 230mm centres apart and the long sides cut out to allow the cable through and the fitting of an aluminum hawser, although I am considering another option.
As the front will be covered by the number plate I'm considering using a cone like tube, larger at one end than the other, the small end will be flared so as not to have a sharp edge to wear the rope (synthetic), the large end flanged and bolted to the bar with six bolts, this when the rope was running through would tend to guide the rope towards the centre of the spool rather than to one side if pulling at a side angle.
Having modified the front of the bar refit it and align it.
As space is limited I elected to remove the jack and use the space there to mount the solenoid pack,
1, it keeps the run of live cable shorter, so is safer, and
2, it keeps the solenoids out of harms way, it is academic as to whether they could be fitted on or even closer to the winch itself, because space is limited.
I will fit up a better steering protector plate next using the bar, winch mount and steering protector.
Now, before anyone yells, "It's no good without pictures", how the hell do I do that? Click Insert Image, it wants to know a url, my photos are on my computer for goodness sake.:confused:
Is nothing simple besides me? :D
I also had a short video, how do I include that please.
Mike
I would love to see the video but unfortunately I also don't know how to upload one :(