TD5 Auto towing camper on Sand

The size of tyre is very important - end of story (and im talking the better overall rolling diameter the better - width is not as important and can be a hindrance if low profile - the longitudinal footprint and approach angle of the tyre is the key (ie when comparing low pressure on say a 29 inch tyre to low pressure on a 31 inch tyre).

Cheers

PS. There is a big difference between sudden torque and gradual torque on sand...so no the V8 will not just dig a hole quicker. I am in no way bagging (no pun intended) the TD5 its just that the V8 has a slight advantage in sand...but by god it chews the juice in comparo' in the deep stuff. Just get the CDL fitted mate and im sure you will be fine...I opted for bigger higher profile tyres and mate the difference is insane...i went all over Fraser last year with a mate with identical tyres and both S2 V8 manuals same and in fact mines a bit heavier with LPG tanks and steel bull bar etc and his locked didnt have any advantage through really dry (no rain for months) indian head etc when heaps of people were getting stuck even with tyres down and we both had 25 pounds on each tyre - checked with same gauge.

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Back in 02/03 I was camping next to a guy with a TD5 at Flinders. He was complaining that even with the tyres down his stock TD5 manual was having dramas. I didnt have dramas int he same conditions with my stocker 02...only difference was mine was a V8 manual. I have seen similar over the years. The td5 just needs that little bit to get on boost and I reckon that the V8 works just that bit better in deep sand with smooth high low end torque (dont go throwing figures at me TD5 owners:) - in the real world large capacity 8 pots works for sand). Anyway the stock tyres at 29 inch were always a bit light on and I have found that 30.5-31 and with increased profile and very similar cross section as standard tyres works very well and makes light work of the deepest driest sand.

BTW I used to tow HD offroad campers over the years inot and out of Flinders and once towed (03/04) a 2.2 tonn dual axle road van in there...that raised a few brows but it was fun.
Cheers

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I know that there is a difference between the V8 & 2.5L TD5 when it comes down to the hard core offroad towing capacity, but as I use my TD5 also as my commuting vehicle (70K /day) I could never afford to feed the V8.
As my wife observed when bogged, all wheels were spinning(most of the time, but not together) so to me that is not insufficient torque but maybe fault with LR traction control that gets totally confused in ultra soft sand and alternates brakes on all wheels until you are totally stuck (TC light was going beserk).

TD5 and an auto, I don't know that you would have struggled for torque and specially not in low range. Tyre pressure is the key, when you have let them down what you think is enough then go a bit further. I bogged the defender with 750 ATs in sand, had someone who could have pulled me out but he encouraged me to lower my tyre pressure lower than 10 psi. I was concernd that I would spin the tyre on the rim but no just kept lowering and eventually got out. If the tyre spins it will dig, the chunkier the tread the faster it will dig. You do not want to break the surface no matter how dry you still want to stay ontop of the sand, a chunky tread will break the surface without spinning the tyres.

When towing and you get bogged, disconnect the anchor (trailer) get on firmer ground and then drag the trailer to the vehicle.

i tow my camper on the sand with a td5 man. tyre pressures is the key and some the guys that do the trips with me have already said that the difference between 10 - 15 psi is huge on the sand. i have towed my camper up some of the biggest dunes in wa and 10psi, cdl and traction control off and you will fly up .

keith

One word everyone has missed "MOMENTUM" it's the most important thing on sand, especially if your towing OR the vehicle is heavy, the lighter the vehicle the better you'll go on sand and the lower the tyre pressure the better you go as well also doing sharp turns is a real no no in sand, that will slow you down a lot.

Having the CDL as well would have helped the most in your situation, it sounds as though the camper isn't very heavy, also if there hasn't been a lot of rain and the weather has been hot, sand can become very soft and no matter what you do, you'll get bogged, Robe in SA and Stockton in NSW are notorious for having very very soft sand in hot conditions.

Get a CDL or if you have the internals already, get a 10mm spanner for next time;)

Baz.

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Originally Posted by beefy

, cdl and traction control off and you will fly up .

keith

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I CAN HEAR YOUR CENTER DIFF SCREAMING IN PAIN FROM HERE!

WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT HAVING THE CENTER DIFF LOCK ENGAGED. WITH THE CENTER DIFF LOCK OFF & UNDER HARD LOADS IF YOU HAVE ANY WHEEL SPIN BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR DIFF'S YOU WILL PREMATURELY WEAR THE PHOSPHER BRONZE BUSHES IN THE DIFF CENTER. NEXT THING YOU WILL NOTICE IS THE DRIVE TRAIN CLUNKY. THEN THE LAST STAGE IS BANG:twisted:
IT WON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT BUT IT WILL HAPPEN.

Baz of course is spot on...but what happens when you have to stop for some turkey who turns in front of you or jumps his turn at the exit uphill in soft stuff...thats why I am advocating bigger tyres if at all possible (taller I say!)...but yep momentum (when you can get it) and low pressures will normally save the day even with stock tyres. When already in several holes on sand the TC will not help too much and might even hinder getting out....but its better I reckon than no tc and open diff when moving off from stationary...as I said above though if you can have CDL engaged (mine doesnt have it - many dont) then moving off from stationary in deep sand is easier than without. Also remember that the highest gear possible without stalling is the go.

BTW with the V8 I think the only advantage is at the point where it is about to sink at just above walking pace (say 10-20kph) and you just squeeze the throttle at 1200rpm and it just uses that smooth torque delivery to keep going (ie when you have to slow down and then just tickle her along before she wants to really drop and get ugly)...I guess what I am saying is that if you have a TD5 you might consider that bigger tyres are a must (as they are in a V8 as well I reckon but perhaps not QUITE so critical...but there isnt much in it) and if you want CDL (but in my opinion the later is more for the security of knowing that you have another drive shaft to turn to if one end (diff for eg) blows out...but its a lot of dosh for that security if you have no nipple

Cheers

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Originally Posted by ozscott

Baz of course is spot on...but what happens when you have to stop for some turkey who turns in front of you or jumps his turn at the exit uphill in soft stuff...thats why I am advocating bigger tyres if at all possible (taller I say!)...but yep momentum (when you can get it) and low pressures will normally save the day even with stock tyres. When already in several holes on sand the TC will not help too much and might even hinder getting out....but its better I reckon than no tc and open diff when moving off from stationary...as I said above though if you can have CDL engaged (mine doesnt have it - many dont) then moving off from stationary in deep sand is easier than without. Also remember that the highest gear possible without stalling is the go.

BTW with the V8 I think the only advantage is at the point where it is about to sink at just above walking pace (say 10-20kph) and you just squeeze the throttle at 1200rpm and it just uses that smooth torque delivery to keep going (ie when you have to slow down and then just tickle her along before she wants to really drop and get ugly)...I guess what I am saying is that if you have a TD5 you might consider that bigger tyres are a must (as they are in a V8 as well I reckon but perhaps not QUITE so critical...but there isnt much in it) and if you want CDL (but in my opinion the later is more for the security of knowing that you have another drive shaft to turn to if one end (diff for eg) blows out...but its a lot of dosh for that security if you have no nipple

Cheers

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Unfortunately those situations are going to happen, there's always that one dickhead around when you least expect it:twisted:

Yes bigger tyres will help, but the big killer of power in a TD5 when towing is bigger tyres, add sand and it will make things worse, also add the fact that the TD5 Disco is heavier than the V8, maybe lowering pressures a bit more next time might be better.

bruiser if you do decide to get bigger tyres, then a chip upgrade will need to be added as well if your towing a lot, especially if doing a lot of sand driving.

One other point about V8 v TD5, (and I hope I'm not opening that can of worms:p)in theroy the TD5 should be better at lower speeds than the V8, because the TD5 developes it max torque at 1950rpm, I'm pretty sure the V8 developes it's torque at a much higher rpm, also a diesel has always been a better tow vehicle than a petrol because of it's torque, the V8 will always be faster but towing is not about speed and power but low down torque.

But of coarse sand would probably throw that theroy out the window.

Baz.

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Originally Posted by buzz66

I CAN HEAR YOUR CENTER DIFF SCREAMING IN PAIN FROM HERE!

WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT HAVING THE CENTER DIFF LOCK ENGAGED. WITH THE CENTER DIFF LOCK OFF & UNDER HARD LOADS IF YOU HAVE ANY WHEEL SPIN BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR DIFF'S YOU WILL PREMATURELY WEAR THE PHOSPHER BRONZE BUSHES IN THE DIFF CENTER. NEXT THING YOU WILL NOTICE IS THE DRIVE TRAIN CLUNKY. THEN THE LAST STAGE IS BANG:twisted:
IT WON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT BUT IT WILL HAPPEN.

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Probably for the same reason people have front and rear locked diffs. More traction. :)

Of course their will be more wear and tear, but we don't go 4wdriving to make the car as long as possible. If i wanted to do that I'd stay on the pavement.

cheers
Nick

Turbo's will never beat a NA V8 near idle,,

it not about HP or torque,,
its just the amount of cylinders firing every 360deg,,

over the early 'teens and its Game On!;)