Have I made a serious mistake with my coolant...

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Originally Posted by midal

No offence but this is a bit misleading, colour coding as explained is not really the full picture.

One such product on the market, Shell (with the well known Shell trademark) Coolguard OAT is red/pink in colour and states on the label:

"Shell Coolguard OAT ready to use is an ethylene glycol coolant/antifreeze specifically formulated with Organic Additive Technology for excellent stability, long service, excellent corrosion protection for all metals, when used correctly. It is nitrite, amine phosphate, borate and silicate free........" It goes on to list that it meets the requirements of international standards and major automobile manufacturers with a number of such standards and car manufacturers etc.
It further states that it is suitable for all automotive applications, including cooling systems incorporating aluminium materials.....also antifreeze, antiboil and antirust.

The product is freely available from K-Mart and other retailers of auto products. (I am not connected with either the product or any company/individual that retails it, purely for information only).

The above is simply for clarification and warning in regard to the colour coding issue stated because it has OAT prominently displayed on the label and is pink/red in colour. It really pays to read the labels of such products before making any decisions.

Again, not looking for any arguments here, but facts are facts. Apologies to mods if mentioning retailers or manufacturers breaches any form protocols.

Cheers
Mick

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All coolants are glycol based.
Shell Coolguard is a blended OAT and is coloured orange, not pink/red as its an organic acid and yes, they ARE coloured different to identify the major difference in chemistry between them. Green coolants are inorganic inhibitors, red are carboxylate based organic inhibitors.
Go out and find me a green OAT coolant.

Some "misleading" points of reference for you.

Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

http://www.enerquip.com.au/brochures...20to%20use.pdf

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_long_life_coolant.pdf - Green one.

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_vplus_orange_topup.pdf - Current GM Holden spec

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386276...2.pdf'mode - Current CAT spec.

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/87058/7/elcfaq.pdf - More from Caterpillar.

Don't see how 20 years in the industry and a few correct references can be misleading.
Maybe a little more investigation to back up your claims prior to assuming someone is wrong???

the OATS are all on the red side of the spectrum so far as Ive been able to work out and the glycols are all green/blue (yes Im awares some oats have glycols in them too but as they contain oat they get called OAT coolants)

recommended concentration for a td5 is between 33+50%

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

All coolants are glycol based.
Shell Coolguard is a blended OAT and is coloured orange, not pink/red as its an organic acid and yes, they ARE coloured different to identify the major difference in chemistry between them. Green coolants are inorganic inhibitors, red are carboxylate based organic inhibitors.
Go out and find me a green OAT coolant.

Some "misleading" points of reference for you.

Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

http://www.enerquip.com.au/brochures...20to%20use.pdf

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_long_life_coolant.pdf - Green one.

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_vplus_orange_topup.pdf - Current GM Holden spec

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386276...2.pdf'mode - Current CAT spec.

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/87058/7/elcfaq.pdf - More from Caterpillar.

Don't see how 20 years in the industry and a few correct references can be misleading.
Maybe a little more investigation to back up your claims prior to assuming someone is wrong???

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As I stated more than once in my post, I did not wish to cause offence or get involved in any arguments, I was simply pointing out that the initial statement in regard to colour could be misleading, and in this instance I certainly found it be so.

Had I known that you were going to get all "precious" about the issue I would not have bothered.

Nobody is assuming you are wrong or doubting your "20 years experience"....and on that point I'm sure we all know of people who have been doing something for a long time, but it doesn't signify that they have been doing it correctly. That doesn't mean that you are in this category however.

In regard to going out and finding you a green OAT, well that is laughable and arrogant. And in regard to the orange colour you mentioned, well that is a strange orange.

Like most people on this forum, I'm not an industrial chemist, therefore the forum gives me and others the opportunity to glean knowledge from such learned people as yourself who have some experience in various areas. Sadly it appears by this example that this simple curiousity comes at a price.

I thanked Dave for his reply, I also appreciated the manner in which he replied, it was helpful.

I would like to thank you for your input also and I do.... but do yourself a favour and re-arrange your supercilious attitude before jumping to any incorrect conclusions in regard to people daring to question your knowledge.

Cheers
Mick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

All coolants are glycol based.
Shell Coolguard is a blended OAT and is coloured orange, not pink/red as its an organic acid and yes, they ARE coloured different to identify the major difference in chemistry between them. Green coolants are inorganic inhibitors, red are carboxylate based organic inhibitors.
Go out and find me a green OAT coolant.

Some "misleading" points of reference for you.

Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

http://www.enerquip.com.au/brochures...20to%20use.pdf

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_long_life_coolant.pdf - Green one.

http://www.tectaloy.com/tectaloy_vplus_orange_topup.pdf - Current GM Holden spec

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/1386276...2.pdf'mode - Current CAT spec.

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/87058/7/elcfaq.pdf - More from Caterpillar.

Don't see how 20 years in the industry and a few correct references can be misleading.
Maybe a little more investigation to back up your claims prior to assuming someone is wrong???

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I don't want an argument either............... but be careful, colour means nothing. Sure green is usually ethel/glycol based coolant but OAT and HOAT coolants can be red, orange, yellow - pick a colour - and they may not be compatable if mixed and if you use the wrong one you may void warranty and cause expensive engine damage. And interesting you quote CAT info, we nearly stuffed a couple of CAT engines by not flushing CAT ELC properly when converting to Tec PGXL to match the rest of our fleet. Mixing coolants is a no no and flushing well is critical for long term reliability.

...........and I use CAT ELC in my TD5.

Just one of many interesting articles

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200408/ai_n9453107/'tag=content;col1

Rick

Me, arrogant?? Never....

No real offence taken and I'm not being 'precious' but part of my "daily routine" requires me to know lots of little pieces of information such as this.
There was no argument, I just gave you all the info for your perusal, but you also gave yourself the info anyway when you copied and highlighted the text from the Shell website.
The reason they have a Red/Pink colour and OAT all over the label is because in fact it is OAT, although its actually dyed orange as per the coolants MSDS sheet. All coolants contain glycol as this is the basis of coolant, most ethylene, some poly and some mono.
If you look at the second link, it shows you the colour codes and the differences between green and red coolants.

Let me re phrase this a bit then, 'If you find a green coloured OAT coolant, I would be surprised and interested.'

Maybe next time, rather than say somethings misleading, ask for an explanation.

No problems on the input, hope it helps, but I aint gonna change being me as there are lots of people who like who I am because of what I am like.

Ask, and you shall receive...
Make a statement, back it up...

Cheers

Andrew

"......when you copied and highlighted the text from the Shell website......"

There you go with those assumptions again. Actually I simply went to my garage and read it from the label on the container;)

Enough is enough.

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Originally Posted by bushrover

I don't want an argument either............... but be careful, colour means nothing. Sure green is usually ethel/glycol based coolant but OAT and HOAT coolants can be red, orange, yellow - pick a colour - and they may not be compatable if mixed and if you use the wrong one you may void warranty and cause expensive engine damage. And interesting you quote CAT info, we nearly stuffed a couple of CAT engines by not flushing CAT ELC properly when converting to Tec PGXL to match the rest of our fleet. Mixing coolants is a no no and flushing well is critical for long term reliability.

...........and I use CAT ELC in my TD5.

Just one of many interesting articles

COOLANT CONFUSION: It's Not Easy Being Green . . . or Yellow or Orange or . . . | Motor | Find Articles at BNET

Rick

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If you look at the second link, it picks a few popular US coolants of varying chemistry. Anything being OAT or HOAT is not green. All green coolants are conventional or low silicate.

The yellow/orange indicates that it is a hybrid mix but are separated by the fact that they still contain silicates, borate etc usually found in green coolant. These are usually a cheaper alternative to full OAT or used in systems where seals, hoses and other such items are not compatible with a full OAT mix.

All the full OATS are red or orange with the orange being a variation much like DEXCOOL which has a few slight differences of some kind, but even Redline state that Water Wetter is compatible with it.
Not really sure what the intricacies are as I have never really looked at it and I have never seen it used in any truck applications here. I see Cummins, Cat, Detroit and Mercedes Benz engines everyday but neither use DEXCOOL.

The CAT info is probably the best benchmark around for heavy duty. As per a previous post on a similar subject, I spoke to the head tech at Cat here and he stated that ELC in a normal engine in the premix 50/50 is probably not a good idea without doing some thorough checking first as its quite a strong mix in the first place. Apparently will strip any previous gallery deposits particularly on aluminium and then begin to erode the coroded metal underneath it. Not so much a problem on cast iron but this ends up in the radiator.

I do believe that you shouldn't mix coolants either. I am surprised that Cat say its OK considering it could open up a lawsuit should someone decide to change coolant, have a problem and decide to take legal action.

I am going to do a compatibility check first before I use ELC in my TD5, just to be sure. The oil cooler ally is a dubious quality on any passenger diesel these days and is different to the ally in a radiator, which OAT coolant is supposed to be good for keeping clean.

The interesting thing is that the ELC and quite a few others contain 2-EHA (ethyl hexanoic acid) in them which is a plasticiser and softens seal material hence Fords issues under test, GM's issues worldwide with it and a number of other car manufacturers pulling out of using it.
Caterpillar use Viton seals exclusively so for them this eliminates seal failures. Detroit Diesel however base a normal OAT for the Series60. This at the moment would be my choice based on what I know and what I have been told from the horses mouth.

Cheers

Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by midal

"......when you copied and highlighted the text from the Shell website......"

There you go with those assumptions again. Actually I simply went to my garage and read it from the label on the container;)

Enough is enough.

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So its the same as whats on the website. Whats the difference???

Seriously dude, let it go...... whatever it is......