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Thread: Madman EMS2 - for TD5

  1. #1
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    Sep 2016
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    Madman EMS2 - for TD5

    I've been running the EMS2 now for a few months and under various conditions, time to start sharing some trends with those who are interested as I'm sure having this info on here is better than floating around inside my head. In time I'll get some data into table form.

    My setup - 04 D2a TD5 auto, abt 220km indicated onboard, always at GVM and oversize tyres (8% speedo error at 100), rack , bars all round, a heavy brick basically. Davis ecu remap, 2.75 exhaust, egr removed. Do run a second trans cooler.
    Towing - 2 tonne single axle poptop van.

    EMS setup - EGT measured from the manifold @#1 (EGR port). Engine Oil pressure, gearbox oil temp (measured inline where the cooler line is flexible between factory cooler and the solid pipe running under the sump. Coolant temp , measured at the head adjacent to the factory senders. Yet to instal the coolant level detect.

    EGT - on highway generally ~400C and into the 5s in hilly highway terrain. It does take a decent hill and pushing hard in lockup to get temps into the 6s. In fact I have to let road speed & revs drop to ~80/1900 and be deep in the throttle to spike the EGTs. Dropping back to third lockup will drop the EGTs and bring speed/rpm back up.
    Towing - on highway in locked up 4th abt 90-95 indicated, flat terrain no headwind low 500s. Lightly undulating terrain or light headwind still in the 5s provided I press on and keep momentum/rpm in that 90/2050+ rpm zone. Drop below that and EGTs climb into the 6s of holding 4th lock. Decent highway hills if I hit them at 100/2200 and stay in the throttle upto mid 600Cs before backing off and changing down to locked 3rd as speed dips below 85. Temp will drop 50 and then not until speed/rpm has dropped to 60/1800 (in third locked) does EGT start to climb up into the high 6s again.
    I don't labour the engine towing into the 700s.
    Unlocked torque converter towing or not, temps never seem to get above the 5s, there is simple not enough load on the engine I suppose.
    Towing i drive by the EGTs working the box manually in 3/4. To maintain good road speed/rpm it is important i find to be willing to work it reasonably hard from 70-100 in 3/4 lock even on flat ground up into the high 500s to then be able to give it a breather and get the temps down while maintaining the 90-100 in 4 lock. If I don't do that hard work i find I get stuck in the 70-80 zone in 3rd locked and unable to pull 4th lock.

    Coolant temp - running solo mid 80s to low 90s irrespective of road speed/terrain. I didn't have the EMS on in the height of summer so yet to see the impacts of high ambient.
    I've had 1 really long 2nd gear hill climb that got the coolant upto 94.
    Towing - generally high 80s on this current trip up the qld coast in ambient temps of mid 20s and no headwinds. On hills if the EGTs get into the high 5s, coolant will get into the low 90s. EGTs into the 6s mid 90s. Highest coolant has been 96 on a long climb in 3rd locked with an EGT of abt 650 - 75km/2000rpm held with a fair Amt of throttle for a good minute or so to crest a hill. EGT and coolant were stable at that point, not climbing and the fan was in cat 5 hurricane mode, the hardest I've head the viscous spin to date. Boy do they push some air when they need to!
    I'm happy enough with my cooling that I won't watch that gauge page now during th winter, I'll just set the alarm point at 95 to alert of a problem - and I need to instal the level detect to catch a leak.

    Oil pressure - running upto temp in the morning 5-5.8 bar is common.
    Once upto temp if the revs are over 2100, 4.3-4.5bar seems normal. Let the revs drop to below 2000 and the oil pressure drops to 3bar.
    Idle is 2.5.
    This one has opening my eyes on why you shouldn't load up a engine at low rpm. Less oil flow getting around.
    I'm curious as to what the TD5 oil pressure "should" be and what others are getting.
    Is it oil dependent? Am I running the right oil grade for the age of mine and temps I run in.
    Some more research needed.

    Oil temp - mine is plumbed to ATF cooler line and currently i have some leaking issues to get on top of.
    Temps however are a real eye opener.
    3/4 lockup 40-50C alll day long. Up hill or down , towing or not. At night it sits around high 30s, even with the ATF leak!
    Unlocked , it just climbs from the get go. More than 2500rpm for a decent period of time and it just climbs like a clock. BIG hill 2nd and 1st unlocked out of hairpins and you end up at high 90s before long , even with my extra cooler. At that point I back off to 2300 if I can't pull over and give it a break.
    That will stabilise the temp in the low 90s. Pulled over idle in neutral for 2-3 minutes and temp will drop back to abt 60.
    The auto really does need a 2nd gear lockup , especially for towing or in really hilly country. It just generates so much heat and I presume pressure as It expands as it heats up I believe. Though unsure if that pressure is greater than the "pump" pressure around the system.
    Bottom line is keep it locked and don't go too heavy on the right foot unlocked. If towing def get an extra cooler and given the price of a rebuilt tranny I'd say knowing auto temp is a high priority.
    I'd hope that a burst atf line would show a temp rise before the box is damaged, though I don't know if that would be the case. Probably erratic gear change or maybe unlock right before the big bang Madman EMS2 - for TD5.
    All the same, alarm is being set for 95 and if climbing in an unlocked situation I change the EMS to show gearbox and coolant as EGT becomes a non issue unlocked.

    Keen to know if others experience the same trends and/or have different ideas on my thoughts above.

  2. #2
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    Leaky cooler line resolved and in hindsight I caused it by having the ATF cooler sender placed in a T in the factory soft line between the hard pipe that runs under the sump and the factory cooler. This soft line is a push/crimp fit
    From the factory and these crimps are a known weak point. Us playing around cutting the line and installing the T pce
    For the sender has no doubt weakened the the factory joins. The fix I have now that is abt 1500 towing km old is to do away with the factory line and crimps and clamp straight onto the hard pipes. Does require an elbow though so the line does not kink.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamHunter View Post
    .....
    3/4 lockup 40-50C alll day long. Up hill or down , towing or not. At night it sits around high 30s, even with the ATF leak!
    Unlocked , it just climbs from the get go. More than 2500rpm for a decent period of time and it just climbs like a clock. BIG hill 2nd and 1st unlocked out of hairpins and you end up at high 90s before long , even with my extra cooler. At that point I back off to 2300 if I can't pull over and give it a break.
    That will stabilise the temp in the low 90s. Pulled over idle in neutral for 2-3 minutes and temp will drop back to abt 60.
    ....
    According to this web page, shouldn't run an auto transmission with the fluid/oil below about 65C(150F) .. measured at the oil pan/sump.
    They comment that an auto can be overcooled using too many aux coolers.
    They recommended auto oil operating temp to be at about 79C(175F) .. so lets call it 80C for maximum transmission life.
    90C is fine as an auto fluid operating temp.
    Their table of temps vs expected longevity lists 195C as the next step down in durability reduction. 195F = about 97C.

    Note that the web page is one linked too via Ashcrofts FAQ area.
    Cheers,
    Arthur.

    '99 D1 300Tdi Auto
    '03 D2 Td5 Auto

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK83 View Post
    According to this web page, shouldn't run an auto transmission with the fluid/oil below about 65C(150F) .. measured at the oil pan/sump.
    They comment that an auto can be overcooled using too many aux coolers.
    They recommended auto oil operating temp to be at about 79C(175F) .. so lets call it 80C for maximum transmission life.
    90C is fine as an auto fluid operating temp.
    Their table of temps vs expected longevity lists 195C as the next step down in durability reduction. 195F = about 97C.

    Note that the web page is one linked too via Ashcrofts FAQ area.
    Good point. I have a professionally fit 2nd trans cooler in mine and otherwise very similar to Adamhunter's setup, and am concerned that it does not get hot enough in light working situations.

    Have been thinking of fitting a temp controlling unit - this one to restrict oil flow was suggested quite some time ago as a possibility - any thoughts from the wise? Derale 25792 - just found an aulro post on the subject (to which I now read I was a forgotten contributor).
    switch for transmission oil cooler fan



    Definitely going down this route. Cheers Gavin
    MY16 D4 TDV6 - unmolested for towing "The Brick".
    MY95 RRC LSE Vogue Softdash "Bessie" from Aug 13 - with MY99 TD5 and 4HP24 transplants. Back home Aug 20 after being off road for periods totalling 3.5 years.
    SADLY SOLD MY04 D2a TD5 auto Classic and MY10 D4 2.7 both with lots of goodies.

  5. #5
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    I was concerned about the 40deg temp on the cooler line when locked up for a while.
    I'm keen to hear if anyone has a temp gauge in the same position as I do but only the factory cooler - be interested to know what temps are normal. If no luck getting that info I might just bypass my extra cooler and go for a run to get some baseline info.
    The 40deg does surprise me, given the flow would be AT-#2 cooler-factory cooler-temp sender-AT to be showing such a low reading. Given factory cooler is influenced by Rad Temp, which is always 85+.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamHunter View Post
    I'd hope that a burst atf line would show a temp rise before the box is damaged, though I don't know if that would be the case. Probably erratic gear change or maybe unlock right before the big bang Madman EMS2 - for TD5.
    I guess that depends on what you mean by 'burst'. Mine popped one of the quick connectors off. Result, instant loss of drive.

    Thanks for a very comprehensive summary. I look forward to putting the Nanocom on mine for comparisons.
    ​JayTee

    Depositatum De Latrina

    2000 D2 TD5 Auto: Tins
    1994 D1 300TDi Manual: Dave
    1980 SIII Petrol Tray: Doris
    OKA #74, JayTee's folly

  7. #7
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    Are you able to show wher you connected the Earth please.

    I am am having earthing issues with my oil pressure sensor on my ems 1 connected to my Td5 D2.

    Mine is is currently earthed I the intake manifold. Suspect it's not earthed properly and I will need to relocate it.


    Cheers, Chris

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4runnernomore View Post
    Are you able to show wher you connected the Earth please.

    I am am having earthing issues with my oil pressure sensor on my ems 1 connected to my Td5 D2.

    Mine is is currently earthed I the intake manifold. Suspect it's not earthed properly and I will need to relocate it.


    Cheers, Chris
    The intake manifold is alloy, that won't give a great earth. The earth out of the loom is earthed to one of the earth studs near the ecu and fuse box. The oil pressure sender had an earth pin on it for that specific earth. The oil temp sender I had a brazed tab attached to the brass T to run an earth to, as the brass T and sender sit in a rubber hose line.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Darwin with a slight temporary diversion in Ipswich for a while
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    398

    EMS1 issues

    Morning all,

    Sorry for the thread dig.

    I am having issues again with my EMS1 . It is approx 11 years old now.

    seemed to start when I had to replace my engine due to a cracked head and bent rod.
    when everything was all bolted up and running sweet again the coolant temperature was reading backwards. Ie when it would normally be reading 79-80 degrees it shows 35 as an example. We tried everything to fix that issue but couldnt resolve it. Tried different temp senders and checked and rechecked earth. Couldnt resolve it before moving from Darwin to Ipswich in Jan 2020. What we did do was install a red arc combo with boost, EGT and water temp to resolve issue, ems reading no longer required. Interesting observation between the read arc gauge and EMS was the sensitivity. Red arc adjust EGTs much quicker than the Madman unit. Quite important as due to my tune I need to drive by my EGT readings.

    recently my coolant level alarm on t EMS is starting to sound at random times. Level is checked and there is no issues. I am losing all confidence in the unit now but dont want to ignore it in case one day it tells the truth. Has anyone had similar issues or Have any advice?

    I really like the concept and when it was working properly no issues at all. Do we know if the units degrade over time and have to be replaced etc. look forward to replies. I read somewhere so one had some issues and reapplied the cables fixing the issue (I think it was an ems2 unit).

    Cheers Chris

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