VW caught by the Yanks for breaking emission laws

I will be following this news topic with interest - mainly because I own/drive a 2011 VW Tiguan Diesel... Don't shoot me!!! :(

Worst case - I assume VW issue a re-call, and my car will have less power and possibly use a bit more fuel, but I can't see it being drastically different (gosh - I hope not)

Best case - the emissions for Australia aren't as strict, and for Ozzie cars nothing changes..

I wonder what the legal ramifications are for VW? Eg - Can I sue them because they sold me a car under false pretences?

Anyway - I am keeping an eye on this story. I am very happy with the car - 143,000km in 4 years and no problems to speak of (one recall on the fuse box, but that's it)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grey_ghost

I wonder what the legal ramifications are for VW? Eg - Can I sue them because they sold me a car under false pretences?

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pretty sure they have committed fraud.

false emission standards
false power power/torque
false fuel economy

I agree with Eevo - I think that they have probably committed fraud as well as there being specific emissions legislation they have probably breached. I expect the company will face massive fines and that some employees can expect gaol time, possibly for long periods, the only problem being to trace who knew (or ought to have) about it and who actually decided to follow this path.

As far as Australia goes, I suspect that the less strict Nitrogen oxides emissions here will mean that it is really a non-issue, although if the Australian certification was based on fudged tests from USA or EU, as is likely, then there would probably be penalties and requirements for new testing, although compared to their situation in USA it would be trivial.

John

What about false advertising? If the engine has to be reconfigured and as a result has less power they haven't sold what they advertised.

Sent from my SM-G920I using AULRO mobile app

Download the Map, then load it back after the recall.

Or disregard the recall.

Agreed, disregard the recall or can they force you to take it back...?

Interesting point here is that we have yet to hear that the cars pass the EU emission standards. To confirm this they will have to run the test with different software. If you just run the test on another car will have same results. Makes me think they do not yet have this software.


EU standards were intentionally designed to be kind to diesel. EU put in place separate petrol and diesel standards while US has one standard for all fuels, combined with a requirement to meet average fleet average fuel consumption levels by brand. Reflects political reality of Europe where energy has to be imported. Diesel beats petrol from an economic point of view when this is the case. Paying for it now though with most European capitals suffering poor air quality which is driven by diesel pollutant count that has gone way up over last 10 years.


VW was the first car company caught in US for defeat devise fitment back in 1975. Believe the term was introduced to US law based on the name given to their devise. Others have been caught since however none since the new legislation in 2010. The caught since 2010 only optomised the test they did not actually break the rules. This gives big powers to fine and investigate / jail people that was not there before 2010.


What makes the VW position very difficult is the time line of events.
1/ European report about VW cars polluting too much compared to tests.
2/ CAFE in US then did on study prompted by this research. They tested Golf and Passat with a BMW X5 as a control car. BMW came in as expected the VW;s both failed. Results were between 5 and 35% over max allowed.
3/ California then took this up with VW who said they could offer a software fix and had it installed.
4/US national certification body watched all this and when did 2016 year testing they paid particular attention to the VW diesel engines which failed despite them being fixed. Then refused to certify the VW diesels.
5/Not long after this VW admitted what they had been up to.


Big problem for VW is that they promised to fix and did not and were caught. Others before when caught before have fixed the problem first time. It is this and the new regulations from 2010 that will cost them big time as regulators and lawyers have no reason to not throw the book at them.


Engineering is done in Germany with US an assembly and retail operation. Under German law cannot extradite a national to any country outside the EU. So US will not be able to grab the top bods unless they find a way to make them come to them. Local US staff will have no such protection.

I'm assuming that emissions testing stations will soon be able to determine if the "cheat software" has been fixed so that any unrecalled VW coming through will be defected until the software is updated.

But when do cars ever go through emissions testing stations? I've never had to.

Testing & Measuring Emissions | US EPA

A non trivial exercise, only 1 government lab in the USA