Ineos Grenadier, do you reckon it'll take off?

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Originally Posted by discomatt69

I heard a report the other day stating over 43% of all cars sold now have faults that the owner needs to go back to get fixed, either LR sales have gone through the roof or all manufacturers have issues
So far after 37 years of car ownership my Disco 4 is the most reliable car I have ever owned with me doing well over 100,000km without a single issue, even my EL falcon wasn't as reliable as the Disco and that was a fantastic car with only 1 head gasket and 1 radiator in 150,000km

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Let me know when you get two that do over 330K Km,without a single repair,only normal services,tyres and batteries.Not even brakes.
There are another two here,around the 250K Km also nothing for one,other had a blocked Cat,that was replaced recently,probably caused by the LPG.
And they were loaded manual service vehicles,so doing stops and starts around town all day.
By far the most reliable vehicles i have ever owned(over 45yrs) or used in our business(over 32yrs).
You can probably guess the brand.
Sure they are not 4WD,and dont go off road,but still,a lot better than some manufacturers could even dream of.
We have actually had more issues with the latest two Rangers in the last 18 months.That is one reason one is going shortly,and if it keeps up, with the other one, it will be going as well.


Our D4 probably had less issues than any other LR,but the issues were way more expensive to repair,noting i didn't do all the repairs myself,but used a good Indie.
During the warranty period it had a number of smallish repairs,some LR couldn't sort after many attempts,particularly the annoying loud dash rattle on some road surfaces that was there from new.

I had an EF that had done over 800,000, although it must be said that it was an ex taxi. Couple of BTR 4 speeds according to the paperwork. HG as well. But...

I currently have a BA with 250,000 ks of rough treatment and it has had a radiator, a centre bearing and the K frame bushes. Not much else. The headlining is looking more and more like a collapsed tent however. Reminds me of my D2.

I really like my TD5 D2, 320,000 k, but I have spent more on it than all my recent Fords combined. And Ford seems to be a dirty word to some on here. Son recently sold his 3.2 Ranger 4WD at 160,000, and all it had was a thermostat issue fixed under warranty.

Not sure how anyone could expect a 3 ton car, that is constantly at or just over GVM that gets used in everything from towing well over 2 ton to speed runs at well over 150 to extreme 4wding not to even need a set of brakes, if a car doesn't need brakes in anywhere near 300,000km its obviously never driven hard, never driven fast, never does any hard work, never tows and always driven like "driving Miss Daisy " and is as bland as they come !!

Gee I wonder what type of car that would be? Certainly not a 4wd, certainly not a car that gives any owner satisfaction or sense of joy and certainly not a car that provides anything other than a boring A to B commute , Toyota anyone?

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Originally Posted by discomatt69

Not sure how anyone could expect a 3 ton car, that is constantly at or just over GVM that gets used in everything from towing well over 2 ton to speed runs at well over 150 to extreme 4wding not to even need a set of brakes, if a car doesn't need brakes in anywhere near 300,000km its obviously never driven hard, never driven fast, never does any hard work, never tows and always driven like "driving Miss Daisy " and is as bland as they come !!

Gee I wonder what type of car that would be? Certainly not a 4wd, certainly not a car that gives any owner satisfaction or sense of joy and certainly not a car that provides anything other than a boring A to B commute , Toyota anyone?

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Yes commercial vehices,loaded,up close to GVM all the time,driven by different drivers.

As i said,not 4WD,no off road.

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Originally Posted by discomatt69

Personally I am waiting for the second generation to be released

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Many a time I thought I should have taken this approach with the wife.

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Originally Posted by spudfan

Many a time I thought I should have taken this approach with the wife.

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Yep the younger sister is often a better option

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Originally Posted by scarry

Let me know when you get two that do over 330K Km,without a single repair,only normal services,tyres and batteries.Not even brakes.
There are another two here,around the 250K Km also nothing for one,other had a blocked Cat,that was replaced recently,probably caused by the LPG.
And they were loaded manual service vehicles,so doing stops and starts around town all day.
By far the most reliable vehicles i have ever owned(over 45yrs) or used in our business(over 32yrs).
You can probably guess the brand.
Sure they are not 4WD,and dont go off road,but still,a lot better than some manufacturers could even dream of.
We have actually had more issues with the latest two Rangers in the last 18 months.That is one reason one is going shortly,and if it keeps up, with the other one, it will be going as well.


Our D4 probably had less issues than any other LR,but the issues were way more expensive to repair,noting i didn't do all the repairs myself,but used a good Indie.
During the warranty period it had a number of smallish repairs,some LR couldn't sort after many attempts,particularly the annoying loud dash rattle on some road surfaces that was there from new.

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From what I've seen perhaps the D4 is better than the D3. But they are newer.

The thing with QC is not necessarily that cars don't have faults... it's that you want as few a faults as you can, and as minor faults as you can. Say 20% of your cars have lots of issues that owners are always pestering dealers about for fixes? That's a pain. It's expensive for a manufacturer and lots of unhappy people who might not buy again? What if 1/100 had a catastrophic failure which required the whole car replacing but 99 were perfect? There is also the issue of design life and how long they have to keep running for. Which their obligations under consumer law usually extends well past the warranty.. another can of worms.

I think the place ineos are at now like virtually all of them have some amount of issues - but not ones that they currently have fixes for. And they don't know what the issues will be with time and use yet.. it's basically delivery issues.

I bought a BMW MINI in 2002 and it should have had "PROTOTYPE" written on it because that was what it was. From brand new it was just a continual procession of failures. Often they would replace parts that hadn't been fixed and then they would fail too. Lots of stupid design issues, production issues etc. The thing is with that car was they would fix some things, and come up with new parts which would remedy the faults. But it just never stopped. I owned it for four years and new faults just kept coming. And some things they just never fixed.

The warranty was only two years back then - but BMW kept fixing things. In the end I just gave up as it was just never working properly. They fixed a lot of stuff - but there were some issues that were baked in where they just changed the design of the new cars and it was impossible to retro fit. The people at BMW knew most owners would give up because there was no fixing all the faults.

Meanwhile new builds improved quickly. Within a couple of years they had reasonably good quality. What people would consider normal.

I later found out that the german manufacturers have a term for this. I don't know what the german word is but it's "kinder cars" or children cars. Where manufacturers expect the early ones to have lots of problems and they usually try and help the original owners.

Anyway - I reckon this is where ineos is at the moment. The cars are riddled with bugs and faults. They don't know what all the issues even are, and they haven't got fixes yet even for the known ones. It's going to be a long road for company and the first owners. Time will tell whether the issues are fixable or "baked in" which can't really be fixed. I suspect this is going to unfold over the coming years.

I didn't order one at launch because I didn't want to be part of this process. And now they have put the prices up. I don't think I'd be paying that until they can sell you a quality car with proper support network. If I needed a car now I'd definitely go elsewhere. Might be different in a few years.

Not a chance for any of her sisters here

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Originally Posted by discomatt69

Yep the younger sister is often a better option

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Is that where I have gone wrong?

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Originally Posted by discomatt69

Yep the younger sister is often a better option

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I have the youngest,she has lasted quite a while,but that could be luck[bigrolf]