Another Malaysian plane down ...

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Originally Posted by bob10

The Russian economy is sliding into recession. Russian businessmen prefer the UK banking system over their own. . Test new nuclear missiles. Nothing to worry about, really, Bob

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Not quite true.
From what i have been told the sanctions in place ATM have don nothing but galvanize the Russians behind Putin. The next round of sanctions which may include the ability of Russian business to access funds over seas may have an impact. But then the Russian government will put some for of local access in place to cover that. in short increasing Russia’s isolation. Based on that you can understand Europe’s apparent lack of effort being put into sanctions. IE unlike America they understand that it will not work.

In reference to the UK banking system, there is some truth in what you say. But think of it this way. Russian business importing funds from other countries is in efect increasing Russia wealth. Money flowing in. Now most of us know basic economics and will have a giggle at this but that is what many Russians believe. Liability means nothing.

Test new nuclear missiles, this is actually something old. But to have the USA roll it out now is in my opinion just to trying to get the US and other public behind it. IE ranking up support which would indicate that the US is preparing to take things further

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Originally Posted by Offender90

open letter to Obama from a group of retired US intelligence officers,

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Thanks for that.

In light of the Iraqi misinformation Game I think the US should be more open. Things are getting way to serious for point scoring and one-upmanship that seems to be going on atm.

Though personally i believe that it is beyond reasonable doubt that Russia is supporting the Russians in the Ukraine and that some of these Russians shot down the Malay plane. i also would like to believe that this was not intentional.

Although i can not in my mind justify the fighting going on i can have some sympathy for the Russians in the Ukraine. We Know that millions of Ukrainians suffered and died under the soviet system, and that the Ukrainian population was replaced by Russians. We also know that these Russians were disadvantaged under Ukrainian rule.
My point is that two wrongs do not make a right. so I have some sympathy for the Russians. How ever i can not condone the violence.

Hard to explain. But although the Russians in the Ukraine are Russian by decent they may align them self’s with being Russian but there home is the Ukraine. No different to Greek’s and Italians in Australia. they may identify them self’s as Australian but are a wear of the family members in the old country and probably travel back often. If Australia was to pass laws that neither Italian or Greek could be taught in Australian schools. Any Greek or Italian Signage would be removed. Any business that used the words Constructions would be delisted. And anyone of Greek or Italian decent could not hold a government job or a council job. That is effectively what happened in the Ukraine. So it is no surprise that there was trouble. And it is no surprise that Russia would not take advantage of this just as the US would take the same advantage if not the same methods.

In regards to access the crash site. My understanding based on the news and Russian news that there was an agreement that access could take place. and that this has not happened because the Ukraine’s have started an offensive close by and thus the Russians have blocked access.
I would sagest that the Russians see this offensive as a breach of the access agreement.

I have also been told, 2 poms who was communicating with and have lived in Rostov on don for close to a decade, have had there visas pulled for that area. so they have had to leave.
a couple of train loads of tanks have rolled into Rostov on don.
Russian media has reported on public evacuations of buildings and shopping centers.

Western media reports artillery being fired from Russia into the Ukraine.

Russian media reports artillery being fired into Russia from the Ukraine.
But with Russian media reports it is not clear if they are defining Russia as Russia or including the Russian occupied part of the Ukraine.

The antipathy between the Russians and Ukrainians go back a long long way,
nut the following is a more recent snap shot as t owhy there is no love lost.

Kulak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if the Germans had been half decent in WWII who knows what have happened with these as allies.

Kulak thing is not dissimilar to the tax the successful until we are are equally poor, and waiting for the next Govt handout, that is currently in vogue.

This is an awful situation, particularly for those people, whose relatives' bodies have not yet been recovered.
I have NO knowledge of what is going on there.
However, I DO believe that Russia is funding the separatists, & so I with my simplistic way of looking at things, believe that Putin, with his massive influence, could do more to organize a safe site, than what He is.
Pickles,

Way past time putin was put out of the way permanently, one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by olbod

Way past time putin was put out of the way permanently, one way or the other.

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Have you got his replacement ready?

The current Prime Minister Dmitriy Anatolyevich Medvedev (also was the previous President) has a very liberal leaning (at least within the political system) and has a previous record of moderation - mabe not as much as the West would like but very moderate compared to Putin.

However he does not have support within Russia as much as Russia has - I did see some recent stats that showed that if he directly ran against Putin he would only attract about 10% of the vote where Putin is around 70%. I am sure Putin would rig elections if he wanted but currently he is so popular that he doesn't have to.

Garry

Yes, before all this happened, I think I read of a recent survey where Putin had the support of 82% of the population. I don't like the man, but I can understand that level of support, because to the population he appears to be "all for Russia". I've also read that he absolutely "hates the West".
Nevertheless, because of his power & influence, I believe that his promises made to the world, to the effect, "I will do all I can" etc etc etc, are not being met.
I have my view of him, & in view of that view, I am not surprised,...I simply would not trust anything that the man said,...which is being born out by his current "inactivity" in this matter.
Pickles.

A mate has a son over there with the AFP, it's a total GF at the site, dont expect closure any time soon i think.

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Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Have you got his replacement ready?

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Yes but who be careful what you wish for, the alternatives could be much much worse....