Pilot shortage causes cancellation on rural Australian routes

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Originally Posted by strangy

Disagree with female bit.
Females have very expedient path to better positions against equivalent male counter parts.
I am aware of more than one who has crashed the aircraft during simulator assessment for a position yet still been awarded a spot over a make.
Affirmative action at its worst.

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Sounds interesting Strangy. While I agree that females are actually favoured nowadays, thanks to Joyce, I have to disagree about your ‘girls crashing the sim’ bit.
My reasoning is that any sim checker worth his (or her) salt would never let a candidate crash the simulator, regardless of gender. That goes against all conventions of using a flight simulator.
I did pilot recruiting simulator checks for over 8 years (for a major Australian airline group), and never did any candidate crash the sim. I can remember stopping the sim once to prevent a developing loss of control event occurring, and that was a bloke.
Further to that, if a candidate failed the simulator check, then they were deemed to have failed the process overall.
I reckon in my time as a recruiter, less than 5% of applicants were female. Their failure rate was about the same as males.

my raaus instructor worked for casa and he did the rpt certifications. he had one lady in the sim do an approach at (townsville i think). the one with base on a 45 degree angle. anyways, she base, final and a perfect touchdown.... only problem is she landed on the taxiway. hahahaha

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Originally Posted by Hugh Jars

Sounds interesting Strangy. While I agree that females are actually favoured nowadays, thanks to Joyce, I have to disagree about your ‘girls crashing the sim’ bit.
My reasoning is that any sim checker worth his (or her) salt would never let a candidate crash the simulator, regardless of gender. That goes against all conventions of using a flight simulator.
I did pilot recruiting simulator checks for over 8 years (for a major Australian airline group), and never did any candidate crash the sim. I can remember stopping the sim once to prevent a developing loss of control event occurring, and that was a bloke.
Further to that, if a candidate failed the simulator check, then they were deemed to have failed the process overall.
I reckon in my time as a recruiter, less than 5% of applicants were female. Their failure rate was about the same as males.

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I dont consider a male or female any more or less capable of the task, nor more or less likely to have a bad assessment. I hope my posts dont present this either.
I can say one such instance occurred this year in Melbourne. 1 inop go around. The company and sim type will not be named and is essentially irrelivent.
A contact on the subsequent ground school/endorsement discussed the incident with me also.
I dont speculate on others reasoning or criteria for a pass or fail of candidates.
Simply it happened and my experience to date (albeit over 20 odd yrs) is i'm aware of 2 with a position offered. (not in the same instance)
Its more notable to me and those associated because of the very reasons you state.

The aviation industry as a whole have been way behind the 8 ball in preparing for this crisis. There have simply not been enough students interested in tackling a career in aviation. The entry requirements have been quite low and, recently, have been lowered further. There are no insurmountable hurdles in front of anyone wanting to enter the industry as a flight crew trainee (student pilot).

It does take at least AUD$120,000 to train a fresh candidate up to airline entry level but that isn't really a hurdle if you sit down and think it through properly. I borrowed the initial amount (AUD$30,000) for my basic commercial license 25 years ago. I sat down and nutted out an intelligent application to the NAB, was knocked back once, and re-applied above the original contact's head. I then got it. My training was spread over a two ear period in which I borrowed and then borrowed some more. It took me 5 years to pay the whole lot back once finished and employed. (That's when interest rates were over 15% also)

Some universities are offering courses (HECS assisted) that will render the student almost airline ready at the completion of the three year course. These students will regret taking that long to become qualified though. They can reach that stage much quicker if they self-fund and manage their progression themselves. However, the degree will also be handy later in life or if the individual loses their medical for one reason or another.

Anyone who is keen enough to enter the industry, whether to fly for the airlines or any number of other disciplines in general aviation, will find a way to make it work. I did it without any family support. That means anyone should really be able to do it if they have some go about them. It's only those ones that would see it through to completion anyway.

The airlines have simply not promoted themselves to the general public as a potential employer. Qantas have, in the past, been used to turning surplus applicants away after taking the cream of the crowd. Even they have dropped their requirement for HSC qualified applicants now. They didn't observe the statistics relating to their usual number of applicants versus their future recruitment requirements. Now they are in trouble.

Regional Express (REX) Airlines published a bitching letter in the Central Western Daily the other day claiming that Virgin and Qantas keep poaching their flight crew and this was going to cause cancellations and delays in the near future (it's actually already happening). Each airline only have themselves to blame if the opposition are poaching their crew. They should have prepared for this event years ago and done so properly.

On the other side of the coin, current pilots can rub their hands together and cash in on the shortfall. That's what I have just done as the shortage is affecting my industry as well. I'm very glad. It pretty well guarantees a high demand for my skill set at least until I will reach retirement age. [thumbsupbig]

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Originally Posted by HUE166

but that isn't really a hurdle if you sit down and think it through properly.

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i dont agree. money is the main barrier.
and australian banks wont do this kind of loan without collateral now days. my ex went down this path and was unsuccessful.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i dont agree. money is the main barrier.
and australian banks wont do this kind of loan without collateral now days. my ex went down this path and was unsuccessful.

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I can only speak from my own experience plus that of those I have guided since. Don't let her give up Eevo. It can be done.

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Originally Posted by HUE166

I can only speak from my own experience plus that of those I have guided since. Don't let her give up Eevo. It can be done.

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too late. she gave up 3 years ago.
now she does raaus instructing as a volunteer.

That's a shame. At least she's still flying though.

Nice post, Hue166.
The thing is that the majors (Virgin and Qantas) have never poached pilots from Rex (or any other operator). Those pilots have always had to apply and pass the various recruiting stages on their own merit to succeed. They’ve all wanted to leave those companies.

Poaching implies that the majors are approaching Rex and other’s pilots and offering them jobs. That just ain’t happening.

In regard to training, I saved up to do mine, which took me about 5 years longer than I planned. That also put me outside the age/experience bracket that the majors wanted (at the time). But if you have the fire in you belly to do it, you’ll persist. There were 80 blokes on my course back in 87-88. Only about 10% were persistent enough to go on to airlines.

Back then, when looking for a job, you could shake a tree and 20 pilots fell out. Nowadays there are next to none. There has never been a better time to join the industry.

The problem is that todays job seekers expect to be recruited straight in as a captain, whereas the reality is that it can take 10-20 years to get to that position (it almost always has). It took me 6 years in my previous job, and 9 ½ in my current job. Todays recruits want it all now. That ain’t how it works.

HUE166, I read that article in the CWD a number of times also, and I noted a comment aboutRex paying about $54k but training was about $130k.

A fortnight ago I met a fellow from Indianapolis, he was a teacher, trained to be a pilot, he kept getting chartered so went full time flying and now 2up flys a wealthy business man around the world, mainly northern hempisphere. His employer wanted to spend time on the Greek Islands, so thats where they were going! The pilots fly with their wives. Perhaps the airlines are not the only options.